Dutch Christmas tradition branded racist

[Henry of Grosmont]

Henry of Grosmont are you even black? I bet the majority of black people would be amused not offended, a bit like how we were amused with "My big fat Greek wedding" in Greece.

So, you need to be black to speak against racism? Or gay to support gay rights? What kind of an argument is it? Did you think before typing that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexand...#Controversies

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy...lm_268388.html

ANy poll on what black people think or are we on a limb here?

Hahaha.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexand...#Controversies

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy...lm_268388.html

ANy poll on what black people think or are we on a limb here?

What's your point? Greeks where offended by the raping of their history and they complain. It is their right. It has nothing to do with Sinterklaas and political correctness people complaining about Zwarte Piet to relieve them from their white guilt/display their moral superiority, and the notion that most blacks living and born in the Netherlands who are the only ones with the right to be offended aren't offended overall with a few black pride types of people exceptions of course

[removeduser_487563287433]

They weren't offended by historical misappropriation, they were offended by Alexander being portrayed as a bit of a bender.

[Phalanx300]

No, because this way of depicting black people and origins of this depiction is bad.

How so? It has a positive connection if anything. Why does skin color matter so much? Oh wait..!

[Henry of Grosmont]

How so? It has a positive connection if anything. Why does skin color matter so much? Oh wait..!

Reading comprehension problems? Or you just pretending not to understand? Because how else can you explain your post after so many pages...

About your "Oh, wait..."

[sabaku_no_gaara]

They weren't offended by historical misappropriation, they were offended by Alexander being portrayed as a bit of a bender.

That's what stone claimed, according to him every critic was offended by this specifically and it's bs, it was a bs movie that dragged on and on on whiny stuff instead of showing his many battles and sieges.

The Greeks criticised the fact that it was a bad depiction of Alexander the great

[Akrotatos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexand...#Controversies

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy...lm_268388.html

ANy poll on what black people think or are we on a limb here?

Oh Ferrets, I miss the times when I was a student and had time to waste on pointless discussion with you and your unquenchable thirst for sources. And btw if you didn't notice while a vocal minority denounced Alexander, it was not banned in the theaters and actually did pretty well If I recall correctly. Personally I hated Hephaestion being depicted like a crying pussy, can't a man be (probably) gay and also badass?

Henry, you do not have to be black or gay to support their rights but you are offended for them for things that don't actually offend them. Is there any actual representative of the black community in Nederlands against this or just fringe groups?

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm guessing this means you don't in fact have a poll of what black people think despite claiming to know so?

[Henry of Grosmont]

Henry, you do not have to be black or gay to support their rights but you are offended for them for things that don't actually offend them. Is there any actual representative of the black community in Nederlands against this or just fringe groups?

"Offended" is the word often used these days to cover despicable acts, like murdering a person for his cartoons. This isn't the case here. For the 1000th time, current depiction of Zwarte Piet is racist. Its origins are racist.
Also, don't decide for me on how I feel or think, thank you very much. Your wording reeks of demagoguery, if I may.
And I find it strange that you argue (or at least imply) that the black community is ok with it while, at the same time, present no data on the matter.

[Akrotatos]

And you present no data for the contrary so we are even.

Even if the origins of Zwarte Piet are racist. So? People from a few decades ago, not to mention centuries were all pretty racist. Might as well cancel 90% of folklore and customs.

Is Zwarte Piet used by the Dutch to demean and mock black people? Or is it a simple Christmas custom that people enjoy for what it is, an excuse for kids to have fun and eat candy?

Since it is the second, a bunch of foreigners (how many Dutch participate in this thread anyway?) discussing it for 18 pages is ridiculous.

[Phalanx300]

Reading comprehension problems? Or you just pretending not to understand? Because how else can you explain your post after so many pages...

About your "Oh, wait..."

Just my point that the people who have such an issue with Black Pete are the real racists here. They seem to have an issue with certain skin colors.

[removeduser_487563287433]

And you present no data for the contrary so we are even.

God how do you not learn this stuff? It's your claim to back up, not mine.

[Henry of Grosmont]

And you present no data for the contrary so we are even.

Ferrets already explained that to you

Even if the origins of Zwarte Piet are racist. So? People from a few decades ago, not to mention centuries were all pretty racist. Might as well cancel 90% of folklore and customs.

Wait..what? Are you saying that we should keep any customs and traditions regardless how racist/discriminatory they are? I see you just made my case...

Is Zwarte Piet used by the Dutch to demean and mock black people? Or is it a simple Christmas custom that people enjoy for what it is, an excuse for kids to have fun and eat candy?

Or maybe get a grasp on what people have been saying here. But given your previous quote, I'm sure the explanation is even simpler.

Since it is the second, a bunch of foreigners (how many Dutch participate in this thread anyway?) discussing it for 18 pages is ridiculous.

Again, no more surprises but I thought that things like racism are concern of humanity in general and not constrained with borders. Just like morality and basic human decency are. But as I wrote, I'm not surprised by your responses anymore.

Just my point that the people who have such an issue with Black Pete are the real racists here. They seem to have an issue with certain skin colors.

And you base this on what? Seems like you pulled this one out of your arse....

God how do you not learn this stuff? It's your claim to back up, not mine.

Given the number of points never addressed by the majority of the defenders, "never" would be my guess. It's like debating religious fundamentalists using reason and logic.

[Phalanx300]

And you base this on what? Seems like you pulled this one out of your arse....

Its an issue because he is black, racism goes both ways is all I'm going to say about it.

[mongrel]

Its an issue because he is black, racism goes both ways is all I'm going to say about it.

It's an issue because it has become a parody of a black person. You do know what black people look like do you?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Its an issue because he is black, racism goes both ways is all I'm going to say about it.

It's an issue because he is a racial stereotype of a black person.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Its an issue because he is black, racism goes both ways is all I'm going to say about it.

Oh, my... Here, for the gazillionth time:

It's an issue because it has become a parody of a black person. You do know what black people look like do you?

It's an issue because he is a racial stereotype of a black person.

Do you understand now why it is an issue?

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20141117_01...53404075de9507
Here another person with a darker skin who doesn't see the problem.

-They are equal individuals who need each other
-Red lips are just more beautifull than black ones
-Foreigners doesn't understand (look above)
-Real discrimination is not being recruited to be a waiter for example.

[mongrel]

Here another person with a darker skin who doesn't see the problem.

And another one...?



For those people who are accustomed to 21st century life I recommend that,(subject to being of suitable age, which you will need to declare) you watch this documentary of what Brits had to endure during the 70s.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/i...mand/57436-002

[Henry of Grosmont]

And another one...?



For those people who are accustomed to 21st century life I recommend that,(subject to being of suitable age, which you will need to declare) you watch this documentary of what Brits had to endure during the 70s.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/i...mand/57436-002

I thought about uncle Tom too but then decided not to mention it because a new wave of "it's America, it's not Europe" will ensue*.

*regardless of the point made.