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Thread: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

  1. #21
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatta Optima Maxima View Post
    Iran at War.
    Oh the book by Kaveh Farrokh!

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  2. #22
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    It's actually quite crappy, but should give a general idea.

  3. #23

    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatta Optima Maxima View Post
    2. The common language in the empire was Persian, yet many military units spoke Turkiish.
    Azerbaijani was used as court and military language. These are actually pretty clear facts, and you will see everywhere. It is estimated that during Safavid era 1,200 Azerbaijani words entered Persian language.

    The Persian language was added as a court language only after the capital being moved to Isfahan, but it was still used alongside Azerbaijani. The military language was only and only Azeri throughout it's existence.

    After military reforms of Shah Abbas, he introduced Qulam, Topçu and Tüfengçi. Topçu means artilleryman in Azerbaijani, and Tüfengçi means musketeer.

    Pretty clear who they were if you ask me.
    Last edited by Atabeg; December 10, 2011 at 03:42 AM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by matmohair1 View Post
    interesting Artwork by Sadiq Gyandzheli

    Shah Ismail Safavi
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Very good detail.
    Last edited by Atabeg; December 10, 2011 at 04:20 AM.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    The military units actually di speak Turkish however it was not the language of military instruction as you would hear officers speaking Azeri. Although in the court they did speak Azerbaijani officially there were also many who spoke Persian.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #26

    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Well, Azeri language are also Turkish, so by Turkish it is not meant the Turkish spoken in Anatolia, but Azerbaijan.

    Altough there was hardly any difference between the Turkish spoken in Anatolia and Azerbaijan during those times, even now in many parts of Eastern Anatolia you will find identical dialects to Azeri Turkish.
    Last edited by Atabeg; December 10, 2011 at 10:16 AM.

  7. #27
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atabeg View Post
    Well, Azeri language are also Turkish, so by Turkish it is not meant the Turkish spoken in Anatolia, but Azerbaijan.

    Altough there was hardly any difference between the Turkish spoken in Anatolia and Azerbaijan during those times, even now in many parts of Eastern Anatolia you will find identical dialects to Azeri Turkish.
    Only some units spoke Anatolian Turkish but mostly by 1506.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 16, 2011 at 04:29 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  8. #28

    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    As Atabeg says, there was not much difference between Anatolian Turkish and Azeri Turkish in those times(actually both called just Turkish)

  9. #29
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    His entire campaigns depend on sieges and surprise assaults. His favourite tactic was a Napoleon like trap goes in surrounds them. He also liked to go behind the enemy to cut off their retreat, supplies and communications and force them to attack. The enemy suffers from a scorched earth policy and since they cannot get their supply line back they have no choice but to attack.

    These are his campaigns:

    Uzbek War 1598-1600 VICTORY

    Ottoman War 1603-1618 VICTORY


    Portuguese War 1602-1622 VICTORY (Through English help and numbers)
    Mughal War 1620-1622 VICTORY (The Mughals did not see it coming and were outnumbered)
    Ottoman War 1623-1639 FAIL (Died in 1629 so personal Victory) It wasn't until the Turks screwed up in 2 other battle then won 1 battle and then retook Baghdad.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 11, 2011 at 11:41 AM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  10. #30
    Blaze86420's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatta Optima Maxima View Post
    IMHO Nader Shah was way cooler than the Safavids.
    Definitely. Nader Shah was one the three last great Islamic conquerors, the other two being Muhammad Ali Pasha and Ahmad Shah Durrani.

  11. #31
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atabeg View Post
    Azerbaijani was used as court and military language. These are actually pretty clear facts, and you will see everywhere. It is estimated that during Safavid era 1,200 Azerbaijani words entered Persian language.

    The Persian language was added as a court language only after the capital being moved to Isfahan, but it was still used alongside Azerbaijani. The military language was only and only Azeri throughout it's existence.

    After military reforms of Shah Abbas, he introduced Qulam, Topçu and Tüfengçi. Topçu means artilleryman in Azerbaijani, and Tüfengçi means musketeer.

    Pretty clear who they were if you ask me.
    I mean in the empire, not the ing court. The empire is not just the army and the court. The entire administrative system was Persian. Also, Shah Ismail spoke Persian fluently.


    @money What you don't ing realize is that war is more often than not about numbers. What are all great inferior force strategies based on? Achieving local numerical superiority.

  12. #32
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: the Power of the Safavid state?

    That's still no excuse! He doesn't need to outnumber some Kurds by 4 times just to beat them. Although I was wrong about the Georgian thing he actually didn't command anything in that war. My mistake apparently Abbas was quite good and beat the Turks at Ardabil and his second battle of Baghdad quite well.
    More details tomorrow!
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 11, 2011 at 12:34 AM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  13. #33
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    But if he has the numbers, why not ing use them? Why not simply quickly overwhelm some minor tribal enemies? There was no such thing as roleplay, you know.

  14. #34
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatta Optima Maxima View Post
    But if he has the numbers, why not ing use them? Why not simply quickly overwhelm some minor tribal enemies? There was no such thing as roleplay, you know.
    Okay I see your point didn't you read my post above? I said I was wrong and that Abbas did not lose to Georgian rebels that was just Georgian propaganda! I also said I would post details later!

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    Campaigns of Shah Abbas I:

    Uzbek War 1598-1600 VICTORY
    Ottoman War 1603-1618 VICTORY
    Portuguese War 1602-1622 VICTORY (Through English)
    Mughal War 1620-1622 VICTORY (The Mughals did not see it coming and were outnumbered)
    Ottoman War 1623-1639 FAIL

    -Battle of Mashhad
    -Battle of Herat
    -Battle of Balkh
    -Battle of Munjan

    -Battle of Nahavand
    -Siege of Tabriz
    -Siege of Yerevan
    -Battle of Sufiyan
    -Battle of Urmia
    -Battle of Basra
    -Siege of Dimdim

    -Battle of Bandar Abbas

    -Battle of Ardabil

    -Battle of Kandahar

    -Battle of Hormuz

    -Siege of Baghdad
    -Battle of Najaf
    -Battle of Karbala
    -Battle of Kirkuk
    -Battle of Mosul
    -Siege of Baghdad

    Apparently he never lost a battle!
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 16, 2011 at 04:31 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  16. #36

    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    Since you are talking about Safavid battles.

    These frescos on walls of Shaki Khan Palace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaki_Khanate) depicts battle between Safavids and Ottomans. Khanates of Azerbaijan saw themselves as sucessors of Safavids. The Safavid army are depicted in local Azerbaijani style (Safavid army was Azerbaijani anyway).











    Last edited by Atabeg; December 16, 2011 at 02:53 AM.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    Shah




  18. #38
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    As you can see, the Shah is wearing the Iranian crown.

    But those are from Caucasian khanates, not the Safavids themselves.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    .....
    Last edited by Atabeg; December 16, 2011 at 10:23 AM.

  20. #40
    neoptolemos's Avatar Breatannach Romanus
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    Default Re: Greatest Iranian commanders and victories?

    Very interesting frescoes.
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
    Luís de Camões

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