last samurai, a french not an american

[fkizz]

last samurai was an entertaining movie, with very small historical accuracy, but it never presented itself as an historical reference, more like as a story that tries to illustrate the clash that happened between modern and old japan. (and in a way still happening)

nathan/tom cruise acts as the "western eyes" on that conflict, for the huge non-japanese audience that it was targeted at.

said that, I enjoyed the movie, even though I'm not a big fan of tom cruise.

for lack of historical accuracy the 300 is a better "acusation", I mean the persians bringing with them near-undead immortals and giants with crab claws? cmon.

[Humble Warrior]

Wait. Did you just imply there is the possibility that The Last Samurai is a good movie!? I know people who think it's a great movie! LOLOLOLOL.

I literally laughed outloud at the theater while watching it. My wife even laughed and she isn't into historical/war movies. The icing on the cake was when Tom Cruise was on his knees in front of the emperor and said, "I won't tell you how he died, but I will tell you how he lived." HAHAHAHAHAHA.

And somehow the Samurai, considered some of the most fearless, ferocious warriors in history, are awed by Tom Cruise's valour...LOLOLOLOL. Because he swung around a stick and would fight to the death? Lol. They would have cut off his head and went about the rest of their day without ever giving him a second thought.

Silly, silly, silly.

Wait, I'm not done...

Aaaaaaand, Tom Cruise would learn the art of Japanese sword play in such a short period of time, enough to both best and earn the respect of authentic Samurai warriors in their OWN COUNTRY!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm not even a movie snob, and I literally was offended at just how ludicrous the story was. Are you f'n kidding me?

I understood all of this when I watched the movie. I even wondered if it offended the Japanese.

However I expected this (it`s an action Tom Cruise movie), so put my brain in the bin while I watched. I also liked the soundtrack alot which I use now.

[bbad89]

As if realism is more important than fun.

[FilipVonZietek]

Realism is actually much more fun than having battles on grassy flatlands with 0 tactics and retarded armies.

[Comrade_Rory]

for lack of historical accuracy the 300 is a better "acusation", I mean the persians bringing with them near-undead immortals and giants with crab claws? cmon.

Well 300 is a graphic novel, which itself is almost an artistic view of the conflict. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Frank Millers work, Sin City, 300, Give Me Liberty, etc. He also did some Daredevil, who is my favourite comic hero

As if realism is more important than fun.

Realism IS fun in both movies and games.
Especially movies for me, it might sound silly but i get very pissed off when i see historical inaccuracies in movies... especially if it's a period i'm interested in.

Edit: Sorry, i forgot to add my example about games. I understand that in some cases, realism might not work for all games, so i let a few things slip.

[bbad89]

Realism is actually much more fun than having battles on grassy flatlands with 0 tactics and retarded armies.

To go along with your ridiculous example, it's much more fun playing an average game of Shogun as it is now, rather than reading up on entire history of feudal Japan.

[Hresvelgr]

My opinion is that realism is more fun at least if you're talking about settings or other details. I can handle movies changing historical events for a story, like Last Samurai and Kingdom of Heaven, and something both have in common is that the settings, costumes, props, etc are all quite realistic. Braveheart on the other hand, nothing realistic. In comparison, Braveheart visually just looks like a steaming pile of crap, whereas The Last Samurai and Kingdom of Heaven are both gorgeous movies. Not only is truth stranger than fiction, it's cooler as well. Though maybe that's because I have a love for more practical things than the fantastic and impractical which I find stupid. Certainly one reason I can't stand 300.

[M2TWRocks]

Realism is actually much more fun than having battles on grassy flatlands with 0 tactics and retarded armies.

It's not polite to call them "retarded" anymore. The less insulting term to use is "mongoloids."

[Hartassen]

The Patriot and Kingdom of Heaven are two examples of good historical movies. As for kingdom of heaven, it's a bit of a twist having the guy who plays legolas defend jerusalem. It's entirely inaccurate. But pretty much everything else in that movie is highly accurate.

300 and the last samurai, not so good.

[Comrade_Rory]

The Patriot and Kingdom of Heaven are two examples of good historical movies.

Kidding... right?

[Humble Warrior]

The Patriot and Kingdom of Heaven are two examples of good historical movies. As for kingdom of heaven, it's a bit of a twist having the guy who plays legolas defend jerusalem. It's entirely inaccurate. But pretty much everything else in that movie is highly accurate.

300 and the last samurai, not so good.

The Patriot?

You`re American, right?

Just don`t say that here in Britain.

[Comrade_Rory]

The Patriot?

You`re American, right?

Just don`t say that here in Britain.

I don't think anybody over here would care if you said that haha. When (Hollywood) movies take chances to make little digs at the British Empire just for the sake of it, it REALLY pisses me off but i enjoyed The Patriot when i first watched it... granted, i was about 10 and even back then, i squirmed at the odd stupid part but i just went back to watching Last of the Mohicans

The one that got me was Gettysburg, which i like, i have both Gettysburg and Gods & Generals on dvd but that one scene where Longstreet is talking to the Coldstream Guards officer and he's like "remember that time we wtfpwned you HAR HAR HAR but srz bruv, you just don't get it, we're free and all that buzz"
I'm pretty sure, in reality, the British officer would have been really offended and either had some cross words or bitchslapped him and offered him out.

[Nordmann]

The Patriot and Kingdom of Heaven are two examples of good historical movies.

Yes, if you know nothing of history, I suppose they are. But to the rest of us, they're just complete nonsense, and 'The Patriot' is the worst of the lot (right up there with Braveheart).

[iqwerty]

Everybody knows that actual history is boring. Japanese knew it a long time ago. This is why the Japanese historical records have a lot of suspicious stuffs in them, such as the 3rd shogun was gay, Yodo-dono cheated with Ishida Mitsunari, etc. Even the japanese historical films and TV series are mostly fictional plots based on real events.

[Humble Warrior]

Everybody knows that actual history is boring. Japanese knew it a long time ago. This is why the Japanese historical records have a lot of suspicious stuffs in them, such as the 3rd shogun was gay, Yodo-dono cheated with Ishida Mitsunari, etc. Even the japanese historical films and TV series are mostly fictional plots based on real events.

I don`t agree. History is often messed about with to help make one side look superior to another, so it gets `embellished`, much like the Greeks loved to say that the heroes came from the gods and all that or the Egyptians who always had themselves winning every battle because their pharoah was god. That doesn`t mean TW games should start having gods from Egypt and Greece start magically throwing lightning bolts in a battle! In the old days NO ONE cared about the truth if it didn`t suit their point of view, not because it was boring.

Real history is actually very exciting and often more amazing than fantasy.

I do agree that japanese ancient history is really hard to sift the truth from fiction. I tried... It`s hard work.

[Chedric]

Personally, I thought Katsumoto was "the last samurai" in the movie. Algren was gaikokujin( ) and while there is a shallow impression that he is the last samurai, the story is really about Katsumoto and his last attempt to protect the emperor and thereby japan.

I also thought the movie was very good. See... I'm not a huge fan of Cruise as a person, but as an actor he always gets good movies and is a great actor. It's probably on account of paying for thetan cleansings- and oh yeah... because he's bat-crap insane.

As far as leaving Algren alive and training time in the movie (i.e. plot critiques), Katsumoto clearly says he's doing it to learn from this enemy that was basically imported to help beat him. Algren was a captain and fought both in the civil war and against indians thereafter. You can't really indict his martial prowess when they showed that he could hold his own early on in the movie without iaijutsu training or whatnot. He seemingly had plenty years of combat to lean on(roughly 10+ going by the movie opening in 1876).

As for disrespect to japanese... The music was given very positive response when taken to japan for feedback. Granted... we're talking Zimmer here, but still. Further... with the internet at our fingers it's probably rather easy to determine if japanese were more insulted or flattered by the movie.

Example: http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=6157

There are a handful of reviews there.

Box-office wise the film did very well in japan- apparently more because the movie was about them and was decent and less than having Cruise in it.

As far as historical, one thing I'll point out is that in watching the movie and enjoying it, I was motivated to look up and read more about "what really happened". That, to me, is a mark of a good movie that has a historic "thread". It doesn't have to be wholly true to history to be enjoyable or to provoke thought. Unless it's a documentary... then it had better be true to history.

[Radzeer]

Kind of getting off topic with 300, Mel G. and Legolas...
The Arts section of TWC have several threads (like this) about movies and historical accuracy for those who want to take a break from Tom C.