Blood Pack and Hattori Clan DLC announced and released today!

[Sgt.Valenzuela]

Oh, but get ready for 'The Marius Reforms' DLC pack. For 5.99US you can have all of the Late Republic Legionaries.

i was thinking of that but i doubt that! i hope so..... I think it would be more of "Multiple Shield Design Pack"for legionaries.

[Huberto]

Supply and demand nothing in life is free you are not entitled to anything

Go tell that one to the banks they'll laugh you out of town.

[Fracchione]

to me its not the price, its fact that such simple thing is being charged, regardless of price. It just opens the door for more simple additions to be made DLC.. Hopefully some can understand what I am saying.

totally agree

solution is easy: do not buy tw at full price, just wait for the final all inclusive gold edition

the only sh'es deserving day-one-support are the ones that aim to make a full developed product which does satisfy their professional ambitions and the users, sadly CA isn't included anymore in my list

[Chevalier IX]

to me its not the price, its fact that such simple thing is being charged, regardless of price. It just opens the door for more simple additions to be made DLC.. Hopefully some can understand what I am saying.

I bring up paradox because everyone around here acts like no other company has ever charged for dlc before other than CA.It is really a bit ridiculous and smacks of gamer forum immaturity to not understand why a company makes a business decision...

[krisslanza]

Dear <insert deity here>, it's like people think video game companies are some giant conglomerate of shady CEOs and practices that are testing the waters for DLC and will one day make you pay DLC for every little tiny feature. No company is that stupid, you're just all blowing stuff out of the water. DLC is not going to lead to some corrupt, twisted future where we'll be nickel and dimed for every single feature in a game, and never see "complete" games released.

Besides the sheer idiocy of the idea, they'd end up all going bankrupt because, despite what some anti-DLC people think about people who buy DLC, we aren't a bunch of sheep who just gobble up every little thing we see. I bought both DLC because, yes I wanted Hattori, and yes the Blood Pack sounded very interesting. It cost CA time and money to make it, so yes, pricing it is completely fair - not to mention avoiding a possible re-rate.

Now about modders. Yes, they can do things for free and we don't expect to pay them. In fact, you can't pay them (legally) because they didn't actually create the game. They just tweak little things on it, or add some new things, but they aren't allowed to charge for this. Modders do things because they want too. While CA devs may share this same philosophy, they're still a company - their entire career hinges on profit. When a modder builds and releases a mod, it only cost him or her time.

When a company releases DLC it costs the company time AND money. The staff don't work for free. So I wish people would stop trying to say "Well modders do so and so and we don't pay them, we just thank them and love them!" but if a company does the same thing, but asks for a tiny amount of money, the only thing they seem to deserve is your undying hatred. The only game devs that can really crank out content for absolutely nothing, would be for freeware devs or some indie devs, as they work on a different sort of layout.

[Gigantus]

Do refrain from personal attacks, will you please?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Or be prepared for consequences

[Vanguard13]

Open Note to CA re: Blood and Gore back DLC for Shogun II -
Dear CA,
There have been some recent and surprising turns which give cause for optimism. I haven't bought Empires, Napoleon, or Shogun because it had appeared your business model had changed away from something that 'worked' into a sort of stumbling around in the dark, trying to figure out how to somehow make money off the modding community using DLC.

The thing that was obvious to everyone else but you, was that the very existence of such a community in itself generated interest, loyalty, and hence 'sales' of the game. Owners of the game have bought the game two and three times just due to the wear and tear and the beloved discs. Rome and Medieval II had such a loyal and committed modding community precisely because of its 'open coding' in so many areas.

Yes we get it - a new management team comes in after some stock-owner activism gets investor hopes up high and something which 'worked' (that obvious thing above) suddenly needs to be trumped by an even more aggressive 'bigger promise' to increase stock value, produce dividends. Yes, we get it and we were never so naive as not to understand that. People in middle management and your designers for whom this is a labor of love were no doubt up in arms and 'just as frustrated' with CA/Sega b.s that the whole ship seemed doom to sink.

Then something happened - CA continued to provide support for a game 'long' after it had been released. The sour taste that was left over from the buggy and quite frankly unfinished 'Empires' release had even begun to diminish.

If CA continues to come through with support and with promises, even if tardy, then it will continue to repair their image and really turn things around.

If CA provides a utility tool which makes the Campaign maps moddable (user created content, new maps, more regions, etc.) then the engine used for Shogun may be attractive enough for serious modders and gammers to purchase Shogun. I might even have to purchase Shogun someday.

Signed,
an optimistic gamer and hobby modder

[The Lions Den]

I don't like how the blood flys onto the screen. That is kind of lame.

[_anomaly]

I can see both sides of the argument here but holy .

Here is hopefully what can be seen as an objective analysis of the situation:
@People who are saying 'releasing it as a DLC is a good idea because it allows it to get released without making the core game get re-rated': why not release it for free as additional but optional content? Yes, CA are a business and they are entitled to sell their products, and the blood pack is arguably worth a few measly dollars, but still, the only reason CA have made it cost money is because they can. It's very petty to put a price on an addition like blood when the PR backlash will probably counter it anyway, and it's also very petty to get so angry over a $2 addition. Of course, both sides have justifications for their pettiness: CA - as a business - want to make money (a completely legitimate justification), and the offended consumers are going by principle (i.e. 'it's not about the price, it's the fact that it has a price at all', 'it sets a bad precedent', 'blood was in previous titles for free', etc). In the end it just comes down to whether or not you think CA's pricing of this content is worth it.

Personally, I think this is a once off solution; it's something the community has been asking for done in an appropriate art style, it saves re-rating the game, CA make a few extra dollars and they'll probably release the option in future releases (if they have a shred of integrity). I'll be getting it because I do think it is worth the few dollars they want for it, but I still think it was a dangerous move on CA's part.

[Lanparth]

No CA! This is unacceptable! You have crossed the friggen line with this one! You are selling us a graphical option that was available in previous titles, an option that we users have been able to mod in the game ourselves for generations, that we've been asking for since Empire to be RETURNED to the series. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND DOWNRIGHT DIRTY AND A SLAP TO THE FACE TO YOUR CONSUMERS.

Why should we buy something that we can just mod ourselves? Or are you going to limit modding even further to prevent this? I cannot believe the sheer audacity of CA in this move to sell us a blood pack when they have shown in the past they're able to just give it to us. They are taking something users have asked for for a long time that would increase battle immersion and epicness and instead of being truly considerate and saying "we know the community has been asking for this for awhile, so here's a patch that will enable blood" they're making us pay for it!

CA has turned into a DLC company. I am extremely disappointed by this move. It was one thing with "Rise and Fall of the Samurai" packs, one thing with Napoleon, extra units, even extra clans (although I feel that pushes the bill from games like Rome where nearly every nation was unlockable for free), but this? No CA, this is not ok. You have completely lost my respect for this company, nearly this series. I hope you will think twice about moves like this in the future, and by God hope you may even change your minds about this blood "DLC". Else you have permanently lost a customer, since I cannot condone these "whorish" ways. I didn't with any other game that became DLC dependent, and I won't start now. For the sake of the series, change your ways CA.

I'm going to respond to this post specifically, because I think the more this post is seen, the more rational people may become. I'm not just going to address this one post, but the broad issues seemingly people keep repeating. I feel this is important because people need to chill the **** out. Let's start with what I feel, is

obnoxious Point I:

"THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND DOWNRIGHT DIRTY AND A SLAP TO THE FACE TO YOUR CONSUMERS."-

The idea that Sega/Creative Assembly is trying to slap their consumers in the face. There are several factors behind this being released as it was, many rational people have brought this up throughout the thread. For starters, companies which deliberately incite their consumer base, especially ones that aren't Activision and Electronic Arts, typically don't do very well.

Let's also remember the rating issues which have been brought up. CA doesn't want a rated M game, they feel it will negatively affect their game sales, this is understandable. Then let's get over the fact that there are indeed new animations, that honestly don't appear to have been in the game from the very start. And then let's add the fact that its 1.50. Did I mention its 1.50 for a piece of content that has NOT appeared in ANY games PRIOR to Shogun II?

But you know what? Creative Assembly? There like a company... thats out for my money man. Can you believe that? Let's friggin' Occupy CA!

I have words which I would like to use to describe this kind of paranoid, self-centric, completely closed minded approach to this. I will not, given that I don't want to be banned. This is not Bank of America, this is not a huge banking company. This is a service, and if you wish to pay for it you can.

Point II:

"Why should we buy something that we can just mod ourselves? Or are you going to limit modding even further to prevent this?"

Go mod it then. Best of luck.

Games are becoming more complicated as time passes, and require bigger teams. That is not to say that this particular mod can't be changed, but as time goes on it will become harder to mod. Then you take into account that they are using different types of data compression that is harder to make modable, AND then factor in that Creative Assembly actually sees money in making said mods themselves....

Well, good luck chuck. I support the modding community, however if Creative Assembly doesn't want to cater to people who cry, moan, and shriek every time that it sneezes... or does anything, I can hardly blame them. Creative Assembly isn't perfect. I thought Empire was a lump of poo. But you know what?

You can mod Empire.

You can mod Shogun.

You can change stats. Skins. Ect. And you know what? One day someone will figure out how to mod the map. And Creative Assembly won't sue you. It won't come breathing down your neck looking for trouble because you figured it out. Heck, it may even one day go to the trouble to make you a tool, no guarantees though.

But that big, nasty, evil company? That spends millions making a product? Man, they are unforgiveable bastards for trying to sell a service or product for their game? Have you heard of expansion packs? Why does no one flip their over expansion packs?

Its like, I buy Starcraft, and then they release Brood War? What the HELL? I bought Starcraft! I BOUGHT IT! Why can't I get Lurkers? I WANT Lurkers? Oh so what if its an expansion? I paid for Starcraft!

DLC is like expansion packs, they are just micro expansion packs. That doesn't mean all DLC is good. Or all DLC is bad. Just as not all games are good or bad.

Point III:

"CA has turned into a DLC company. I am extremely disappointed by this move."

Oh, you mean how they've released Empire, Napoleon, and Shogun all within what? 3 years? Maybe its 4 and I don't recall entirely. Yea, that pesky game studio. And they make expansions for it and call it DLC! The criminals, I am horrified.

This kind of brings all my points together. They make games, they make extra content, they sell it or give it away whatever they choose, this is how games have always been done since the 90's. The difference now is they don't make one big expansion pack very often anymore. Shocking. As the content is made, they release it, often at a much lower rate then a full xpac. And let's not forget that this encourages the development of new content that would never be seen in an xpac, like I don't know, the Blood Mod, because that would change the games rating.

Day 1 DLC bothers me, it doesn't outrage me, as it was made with the game and sold extra. I didn't buy the But content that is being made and sold as the game comes along? Well.I didn't buy the clan pack that came out. It was made with the game, that's my personal bias and prerogative. does that mean CA can't do it? Absolutely not. Does that make them big evil bullies? Once again, not really.

People have a right to their opinions, and should voice them. But after a while of yelling at a brick wall, realize the wall was built that way, and isn't going to stop being a brick wall. If you don't like how CA does business? Stop buying their games. If you've already done so, then why are you crying about games you haven't bought, and WON'T BUY? Move on with life, find another game, find another hobby, find something more productive.

If CA is angering so many people, they will see that in their sales, which will respond to their business practices. They aren't a massive financial institution, they actually produce things. And won't collapse the global economy due to recklessness. CA if it gets reckless, will just fade away. And then all you guys who have these points will finally be happy.

[DarthShizNit]

that was a very long post lol.

All I have to say is that Mr Kenshin just narrowly routed my army and it was one of the funnest things ever, the blood was epic and actually looks like it fits right in from the zoomed out perspective that I usually play the game at. I spent the whole battle waiting for someone to be decapitated, and then the last volley my heavy gunner gave off decapitated a guy

[Chevalier IX]

I'm going to respond to this post specifically, because I think the more this post is seen, the more rational people may become. I'm not just going to address this one post, but the broad issues seemingly people keep repeating. I feel this is important because people need to chill the **** out. Let's start with what I feel, is

obnoxious Point I:

"THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND DOWNRIGHT DIRTY AND A SLAP TO THE FACE TO YOUR CONSUMERS."-

The idea that Sega/Creative Assembly is trying to slap their consumers in the face. There are several factors behind this being released as it was, many rational people have brought this up throughout the thread. For starters, companies which deliberately incite their consumer base, especially ones that aren't Activision and Electronic Arts, typically don't do very well.

Let's also remember the rating issues which have been brought up. CA doesn't want a rated M game, they feel it will negatively affect their game sales, this is understandable. Then let's get over the fact that there are indeed new animations, that honestly don't appear to have been in the game from the very start. And then let's add the fact that its 1.50. Did I mention its 1.50 for a piece of content that has NOT appeared in ANY games PRIOR to Shogun II?

But you know what? Creative Assembly? There like a company... thats out for my money man. Can you believe that? Let's friggin' Occupy CA!

I have words which I would like to use to describe this kind of paranoid, self-centric, completely closed minded approach to this. I will not, given that I don't want to be banned. This is not Bank of America, this is not a huge banking company. This is a service, and if you wish to pay for it you can.

Point II:

"Why should we buy something that we can just mod ourselves? Or are you going to limit modding even further to prevent this?"

Go mod it then. Best of luck.

Games are becoming more complicated as time passes, and require bigger teams. That is not to say that this particular mod can't be changed, but as time goes on it will become harder to mod. Then you take into account that they are using different types of data compression that is harder to make modable, AND then factor in that Creative Assembly actually sees money in making said mods themselves....

Well, good luck chuck. I support the modding community, however if Creative Assembly doesn't want to cater to people who cry, moan, and shriek every time that it sneezes... or does anything, I can hardly blame them. Creative Assembly isn't perfect. I thought Empire was a lump of poo. But you know what?

You can mod Empire.

You can mod Shogun.

You can change stats. Skins. Ect. And you know what? One day someone will figure out how to mod the map. And Creative Assembly won't sue you. It won't come breathing down your neck looking for trouble because you figured it out. Heck, it may even one day go to the trouble to make you a tool, no guarantees though.

But that big, nasty, evil company? That spends millions making a product? Man, they are unforgiveable bastards for trying to sell a service or product for their game? Have you heard of expansion packs? Why does no one flip their over expansion packs?

Its like, I buy Starcraft, and then they release Brood War? What the HELL? I bought Starcraft! I BOUGHT IT! Why can't I get Lurkers? I WANT Lurkers? Oh so what if its an expansion? I paid for Starcraft!

DLC is like expansion packs, they are just micro expansion packs. That doesn't mean all DLC is good. Or all DLC is bad. Just as not all games are good or bad.

Point III:

"CA has turned into a DLC company. I am extremely disappointed by this move."

Oh, you mean how they've released Empire, Napoleon, and Shogun all within what? 3 years? Maybe its 4 and I don't recall entirely. Yea, that pesky game studio. And they make expansions for it and call it DLC! The criminals, I am horrified.

This kind of brings all my points together. They make games, they make extra content, they sell it or give it away whatever they choose, this is how games have always been done since the 90's. The difference now is they don't make one big expansion pack very often anymore. Shocking. As the content is made, they release it, often at a much lower rate then a full xpac. And let's not forget that this encourages the development of new content that would never be seen in an xpac, like I don't know, the Blood Mod, because that would change the games rating.

Day 1 DLC bothers me, it doesn't outrage me, as it was made with the game and sold extra. I didn't buy the But content that is being made and sold as the game comes along? Well.I didn't buy the clan pack that came out. It was made with the game, that's my personal bias and prerogative. does that mean CA can't do it? Absolutely not. Does that make them big evil bullies? Once again, not really.

People have a right to their opinions, and should voice them. But after a while of yelling at a brick wall, realize the wall was built that way, and isn't going to stop being a brick wall. If you don't like how CA does business? Stop buying their games. If you've already done so, then why are you crying about games you haven't bought, and WON'T BUY? Move on with life, find another game, find another hobby, find something more productive.

If CA is angering so many people, they will see that in their sales, which will respond to their business practices. They aren't a massive financial institution, they actually produce things. And won't collapse the global economy due to recklessness. CA if it gets reckless, will just fade away. And then all you guys who have these points will finally be happy.

and then you will all have proven your points and the MAN will have paid his dues and we will all have lost the absolute bench mark for all games at blend over world empire building with real time combat because you felt they had no right to charge for it....

[DarthShizNit]

Here is hopefully what can be seen as an objective analysis of the situation:
@People who are saying 'releasing it as a DLC is a good idea because it allows it to get released without making the core game get re-rated': why not release it for free as additional but optional content? Yes, CA are a business and they are entitled to sell their products, and the blood pack is arguably worth a few measly dollars, but still, the only reason CA have made it cost money is because they can. It's very petty to put a price on an addition like blood when the PR backlash will probably counter it anyway, and it's also very petty to get so angry over a $2 addition. Of course, both sides have justifications for their pettiness: CA - as a business - want to make money (a completely legitimate justification), and the offended consumers are going by principle (i.e. 'it's not about the price, it's the fact that it has a price at all', 'it sets a bad precedent', 'blood was in previous titles for free', etc). In the end it just comes down to whether or not you think CA's pricing of this content is worth it.

Personally, I think this is a once off solution; it's something the community has been asking for done in an appropriate art style, it saves re-rating the game, CA make a few extra dollars and they'll probably release the option in future releases (if they have a shred of integrity). I'll be getting it because I do think it is worth the few dollars they want for it, but I still think it was a dangerous move on CA's part.

[DarkArk]

Exactly! imagine RTW2 with only 3 roman factions playable with the other 10-13 faction DLC for $4.99 each.

People were saying the same thing when Empire had DLC. This sort of thing still has not happened yet, and at this point I doubt it ever will. You're being way too ing paranoid.

It's as if you people are willfully ignorant of the with ratings that releasing it for free would cause.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

For all the people saying it should be free, there are real costs associated with making something like this even if you discount the corporate overhead at CA. At the very least there is the cost of using Steam or whatever other distribution channel to get the DLC out. There's no way CA would release a DLC which would make them bleed money as people download it.

Some things I posted in another thread:

I wonder if there's some kind of regulatory knot with PEGI - i.e. given the original game was rated 16, they can't release anything for free (i.e. it wouldn't be a product and PEGI would refuse to rate it) that would break that rating or they would have to get the whole game re-rated, but by making people pay a nominal amount you could release blood patch as a separate product rated 18 while the rest of the game is still 16.

In my opinion the most likely way Steam makes money is a blanket service fee plus a commission (with a minimum floor per item of X pence) per download. In that case CA probably just rounded up so they got a bit of revenue to cover the costs while keeping it at a pretty nominal price.

Leaving ethical/moral arguments against Steam aside, all distribution platforms would charge some kind of fee for their services. Even if CA used SEGA's own servers there would probably be some kind of internal costing involved. Renting their own bandwidth would probably be more expensive than any of the alternatives.

Judging from past DLC's, these ones would probably end up on Gamersgate or similar websites, meaning CA isn't solely dependent on Steam. Ultimately the game publisher's goal is to get the product out to as many gamers as possible.

It's 99 pence GBP. My guess is that the minimum fee for Steam per download is US$1 which equates to 64 pence, and CA rounded it up.

In England you literally can't get anything besides newspapers or chewing gum for 99 pence, so they probably thought it was fair (and I'd agree with them).

As for releasing it with the original game - maybe they didn't want to include it and get a 18 rating the game, maybe it was performance related, maybe they ran out of time. I don't know, and it frankly matters for very little. Ultimately if it bothers you so much then don't buy it. It doesn't change your gaming experience in any way.

[Dynamo11]

It's £1, I've spent more than that on a bag of posh crisps.

[CrayonVonCaesar]

Make an optional blood/dismemberment pack for every total war game from now on and I'll be your friend, CA.

[Miracles]

Hmm anybody seen limbs severed in game? All I see is head decapitations and blood, lots of blood.

[DarthShizNit]

Hmm anybody seen limbs severed in game? All I see is head decapitations and blood, lots of blood.

I've seen a few arms about, but not nearly as often

[Éorl]

I also smiled at the request to add a moddable campaign map by removing warscape. That's like asking Renault to change all of their engines to hydrogen, because a few activists want to save the penguins.

You may smile at this - but you need to realize that a moddable campaign map is essential to creating mods or full conversions that not only tweak some unit stats and textures. Just take a look at how popular Rome Total War/Barbarian Invasion still is because you can create whole new settings there.

That's why in my eyes it's so sad that people go bonkers because of some silly little blood and gore effects, when so much cooler stuff could be done (or re-implemented).

By the way - you shouldn't make fun of penguins, or I'll inform Skipper and his gang about you!