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Thread: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

  1. #21
    Paragon's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    Starting date is from 1245 to 1454. Our goal is to base the game with historical accuracy, innovative gameplay with a flavour of roleplaying elements. One feature we planned for the late campaign will be to represent in the numerous religious conflicts between Western kingdoms and it will be possible to embrace the Catholic church, being protestant and the like.
    What do you mean, roleplaying elements?

    Also no idea about religion for the Aragonese. They were just you average Catholic faction.

    Let's say and by logical means, the mounted Almughavars will be part of the nobility, therefore part of the Aragonese knights.
    So it's simply implied that these Feudal Knights have chief Almughavars among them? Meh, I guess that's ok, having an unit of 120 foot infantry and 1 captain mounted would probably be a mess anyway.

    Taken note, I'll balance everything with those guys and already, javelins have +3 against cavalry.
    It's just that in this game, Feudal Knights, General's Bodyguard or even Mailed Knights charging agaisnt light infantry results in half of it dying from the ensuing charge, a few fighting back and finally the infantry fleeing. Almughavars should be able to countercharge and put a really decent fight or even win, and that's usually reserved for really heavy infantry.

    My plan is to make rebels, not simple calm regions that take care of their own business until the player capture it. No, my goal is to make the game quite challenging and the rebels will be a real pain which was quite significant in France.
    You mean, like what SS does 1% of the time, but always? It'll be a pain in the bass for factions that start sorrounded by rebels but it sounds fun. Not what I intended (rebel almughavars representing a horrible bandit group that makes misery grow up) so no idea how to represent it then.

    I would like more precise info about the Aragonese recruitment if possible but it's doable to mod with those restrictions.
    As I have said, I'm just telling what I think it's kind of peculiar and it's you people the ones who choose if you implement it on the mod and how.

    Basically,

    Defensively wise: (Like agaisnt a moor invasion) They can recruit everything, even peasants, king must still fight, depending of the era and king, they might be required to be among the first to charge into battle

    Ofensively wise: (Like the Sicilian invasions) No levies (so no Peasant unit) Militia must either volunteer or receive a salary (higher unkeep). Noblemen, like most other troops and including knights, would be normally recruited since they simply had promises of looty and lands. For the rest, mercenaries. King still should be in most battle (or at least in one if the campaign has more than one front).

    Exceptions include the Almughavars in Athens agaisnt the Turks and Byzantines, but like I said that was just the king sending them far away in order to avoid them doing the sacking in the just conquered lands.


    Not sure I can mod this but one thing however I want to do is if a sovereign stays almost all his life in a settlement, be sure he won't have good stats and even have penalties to his authority which can be represented as a king who prefer to stay in his court and being distant from his people.
    Yeah, but that still does not fit the plebs going REALLY mad if the king isn't fighting the wars he starts.
    This is my Aragonese AAR, One Single Man

    If you read and comment, there WILL be cake!

  2. #22
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    What do you mean, roleplaying elements?
    You will see it when we will work on them.

    Also no idea about religion for the Aragonese. They were just you average Catholic faction.
    By religion, I mean Lutherian, Avignon or Roma nCatholic chruches as well other minor religions considered as heretics.


    So it's simply implied that these Feudal Knights have chief Almughavars among them? Meh, I guess that's ok, having an unit of 120 foot infantry and 1 captain mounted would probably be a mess anyway.
    It's not possible to have a mounted captain and foot units and vice-versa.

    It's just that in this game, Feudal Knights, General's Bodyguard or even Mailed Knights charging agaisnt light infantry results in half of it dying from the ensuing charge, a few fighting back and finally the infantry fleeing. Almughavars should be able to countercharge and put a really decent fight or even win, and that's usually reserved for really heavy infantry.
    Noted.

    You mean, like what SS does 1% of the time, but always? It'll be a pain in the bass for factions that start sorrounded by rebels but it sounds fun. Not what I intended (rebel almughavars representing a horrible bandit group that makes misery grow up) so no idea how to represent it then.
    This will be through a combination of design and testing but mainly, the rebels won't be anymore the typical sit-and-waiting-to-be-killed behaviors.

    As I have said, I'm just telling what I think it's kind of peculiar and it's you people the ones who choose if you implement it on the mod and how.

    Basically,

    Defensively wise: (Like agaisnt a moor invasion) They can recruit everything, even peasants, king must still fight, depending of the era and king, they might be required to be among the first to charge into battle
    It will be up to the player to bring his king to the battle but certain penalties will be given for a sovereign who sit in their capital until their death.

    Ofensively wise: (Like the Sicilian invasions) No levies (so no Peasant unit) Militia must either volunteer or receive a salary (higher unkeep). Noblemen, like most other troops and including knights, would be normally recruited since they simply had promises of looty and lands. For the rest, mercenaries. King still should be in most battle (or at least in one if the campaign has more than one front).
    I'll do the recruitment system I'm planning and see how it will goes but mainly certain recruitment aspects will be similar to this.

    Exceptions include the Almughavars in Athens agaisnt the Turks and Byzantines, but like I said that was just the king sending them far away in order to avoid them doing the sacking in the just conquered lands.
    Expect to see them as rebels that could loot and ravage your lands if left unemployed.

    Yeah, but that still does not fit the plebs going REALLY mad if the king isn't fighting the wars he starts.
    It will be difficult to represent this, perhaps when i'll play with the CAI, I may reflect this.

  3. #23
    Paragon's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Weeeelps, sorry for totally disappearing for weeks. I had a ton of exams and the most personal troubles since like two years, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    You will see it when we will work on them.
    That's an evil way to catch my interest.

    By religion, I mean Lutherian, Avignon or Roma nCatholic chruches as well other minor religions considered as heretics.
    Oh, well, they were Roman Catholics, they just had some territorial troubles with the pope sometimes. For example, have the "Aragonese Crusade".

    It's not possible to have a mounted captain and foot units and vice-versa.
    Yeah, that's why the other solution seemed good to me.


    This will be through a combination of design and testing but mainly, the rebels won't be anymore the typical sit-and-waiting-to-be-killed behaviors.

    As I have said, I'm just telling what I think it's kind of peculiar and it's you people the ones who choose if you implement it on the mod and how.
    Well, it depends on the rebels, but I agree that kind of behaviour was unealistic.
    Basically,



    It will be up to the player to bring his king to the battle but certain penalties will be given for a sovereign who sit in their capital until their death.
    I don't know what penalties are you talking about. Maybe something with the public order would do the job.

    I'll do the recruitment system I'm planning and see how it will goes but mainly certain recruitment aspects will be similar to this.

    Expect to see them as rebels that could loot and ravage your lands if left unemployed.
    Fine. As I have said, they were sent to Greece so they wouldn't disturb aragonese lands.

    It will be difficult to represent this, perhaps when i'll play with the CAI, I may reflect this.
    As I have said, maybe it's too much work for a single faction.
    This is my Aragonese AAR, One Single Man

    If you read and comment, there WILL be cake!

  4. #24
    Rampante-Cid's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Hi! I am very interested in your mod in special in the Hispanic Kingdoms. Thus I have put there some pictures of the aragonese army during the reing of the king Jaime I the Conqueror (1208-1276) and the XIV-XV centuries. In the future I try put some information abaut the military organisation of the aragonese kingdom and the Castilla and Navarre. I expect this pictures there are useful for your mod.
    Anyways luck with you fantastic mod and how the Almogavars said: DESPERTA FERRO!!!!!!!



    Jaime I King of Aragon


    Jaume in a medieval paint


    Aragonese calvaryman


    Dismounted Aragonese calvaryman




    The armor of the Aragonese calvaryman


    The armors of the horses


    Banners, estandars and shields, interpretations based in escultures, low relief, paint walls and miniatures (XII century-begin of the XIII century).


    More armors of Aragonese calvaryman


    More calvaryman


    The shield banners of the aragonese nobility


    More banners and shields of the aragonese army


    Calvaryman and kinds of swords


    In the lefth a Tolosan knight in Aragonese service and in the right a catalan knight


    Low class knights


    Calatrava Knight, Templar knight and Hospitalarian knight of the kingdom of Aragon


    Hospitaliarian knight in the left, Sant Jacobus kingth in the midlle and in the right a templar knight




    More calvaryman






    Aragonese infantry of "peones" armed with swords and shields, picture based in Tinell paints




    Catalano-Aragonese pikemen




    Crosbowman




    The famous Almogavars


    Kinds of Helms


    Aragonese army during the invasion of the Mallorca island (1229-1230)


    In the left Ot of Moncada, in the midlle Ramon Fole IV of Carmona and in the right Alvar of Cabrera, viscount dAger (famous knigths of the XIV century)


    Calvaryman between XIV-XV century


    Argonese infantryman between XIV-XV century
    Last edited by Rampante-Cid; June 24, 2012 at 08:10 AM.



  5. #25
    Paragon's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Hi!

    Are you Spanish or just interested in Spanish story? Where do you get such awesome pics? Are they for free use?
    This is my Aragonese AAR, One Single Man

    If you read and comment, there WILL be cake!

  6. #26
    Rampante-Cid's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Yes I am spanish interested in the history of my country. The pics are form two sources: some are from the artist Agel García Pinto who put many of his pictures in his page: http://angelgpinto.blogspot.com.es/ for example this:

    Lietznigt battle, 1241
    Thus I think that he allows the free use of his pictures.

    The others pictures are from this book: "Eles exercits de Jaume I" of the Dux editorial from Catalonia. The pics of this book there are in many spanish pages in internet and for the moment I don´t have any notice of reports from the editorial for the free use of his pics. But if you have fear for posible problems of copyright only to inform me and I retire this pics. And if you are interested in this pics I can send to the mod team for a private message.


    And there some pictures of the same book:



    Landing of the king Jaime I in Santa Ponça





    The Portopí Battle




    The Siegue of Mallorca
    Last edited by Rampante-Cid; June 24, 2012 at 08:11 AM.



  7. #27

  8. #28
    druzhina345's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Icon3 Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Rampante-Cid View Post
    Hi! I am very interested in your mod in special in the Hispanic Kingdoms. Thus I have put there some pictures of the aragonese army during the reing of the king Jaime I the Conqueror (1208-1276) and the XIV-XV centuries. In the future I try put some information abaut the military organisation of the aragonese kingdom and the Castilla and Navarre. I expect this pictures there are useful for your mod.
    The blog posts the pictures come from can be found at:
    JAUME I ," El Conquistador" y su ejercito en la Edad Media, 1208-1276.

    druzhina345
    Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
    Last edited by druzhina345; May 22, 2013 at 03:40 AM.

  9. #29
    Alexios Komnenos's Avatar Supai
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Catalan history degree here. Most of the images here by Rampante Cid, as well as those by Druzhina, are very good. Aragonese military always went one step behind the rest of Europe (as did Castille and Portugal, but not Navarre, thanks to its close connexion with France and the ruling Navarrese dynasty, the French House of Évreux).

    The Crown of Aragon is the term historians use to talk about the personal union between the Kingdom of Aragon, the County of Barcelona, Girona and Osona (which encompassed most of Catalonia), and the kingdoms that came later by conquest (València, Mallorques, Sicily, Naples...), as well as other lordships, counties and viscounties.

    But mainly, you've got two entities with different laws and institutions, and that didn't like each other very much over the period: Aragon and Catalonia. But well, that's for another discussion. Just to note that, while the Catalans had renouned crossbowmen and a very long standing maritime tradition, the Aragonese were sterner, more apt with light cavalry and relying on heavy infantry, because of the general lack of war horses in Spain, compared to other countries.

    As for army composition, the Aragonese army (from this moment on, Aragonese means "the whole Crown of Aragon"), it's the same as any other feudal army, with its own particularities:

    - Use of pikemen, as seen in the Tinell mural paintings from circa 1270. There are pics of them in Rampante Cid's post, holding long spears with both hands. How did they employ them and when did they start is subject to debate, but it is certain that they employed them.

    - Good crossbowmen, to the point of bowmen being testimonial. Since the king got most of its armies from either the Military Arm (the nobility) or the Royal Arm (towns), this was mainly an army of cavalry (with its squires and sergeants) and light infantry.

    - The general use of the so called Almughavars, which started being levies from the mountains that probably became bandits after some war in the beginning of the XIIIth Century, and these banditries eventually formed a company of mercenaries normally employed by the King of Aragon, until Peter III the Great attacked Sicily and they started salvaging the isle after the war, so they sent them to Greece to have them as far off as possible.

    ***

    On Aragonese Knights and Chivalry:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    On the mention of Almughavars leading Feudal knights, no. Not at all. Feudal knights in Spain are not so chivalry-crazy as the French and Norman knights, their chivalric code is more lax; they valour greatly the vision of chivalry that sprang from the first trobadour traditions of Southern France and Northern Spain: courtly love, but where the knights doesn't just love from afar, but climbs the ladder, gives her beloved (married with the poet's liege lord) lady a good deserved tumble, and leaves when the sun comes up. Catalan trobadoresque poetry is full with this theme.

    All this to say that Aragonese feudal cavalry doesn't have the same standards as Northern French cavalry; they would not get completely mad if the enemy send his sergeants to fight them instead of proper knights, like the French knights did in the Battle of Bouvines, prompting what could have been a defeat for Philippe II of France (which in the end didn't happen), and probably they would not underestimate so blatantly the Almughavars' tricks in the battle of Kephissos, where these mercs flooded the fields and waited for the Frankish cavalry to rush in, get stucked, and then proceeded to slice their muddy throats one by one.


    On Almughavars:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Almughavars had their own hierarches; their leader was called Adalid, and the captains were called Almucadens, which could become the name for a better unit of light cavalry almughavars. They fought with swords and long butchering knives, and with javelins. Some used mail, some used leather armours, some furs... they were mercs and men from the mountains, so they used what they could.

    When they formed the Grand Catalan Company bound to Greece, they adopted the standard of the King of Aragon, because they were led by men of the King and, in theory, they carried the King's will to help the Greeks. Boy did that work well.


    ***

    On Flags
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Concerning flags, royal units used the arms of the King of Aragon: four red bars on gold. The bars always go on the banner's direction. Another flag widely used was St George's flag, which later the "Generalitat", which was some sort of permanent Courts' (Parliament) comission to collect taxes and watch over the King's acceptance of the Parliament's decisions, and represented "the Land".

    It was also the main flag of Barcelona, always the King's most valuable town because it provided a lot of troops and was a major center of trade in the Mediterranean.



    ***

    On the Orders of Montesa and Saint George:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Crown of Aragon had the famous Order of Montesa as its own, late (in comparison) Order of Chivalry; but already in 1200, king Peter the Catholic founded the Order of St George, set on the castle of Alfama. The odds wanted these warrior monks to become enemies of Christendom when they went with King Peter to fight the French crusaders (while fighting alongside the "heretics") during the Cathar Crusade. Most of them perished there, and while we know that Montesa absorbed the Order of St George in the late XIVth Century, it's unclear whether the Order survived or not with just a handful of knghts left alive after 1214.
    "Déu és beure bé, menjar fresc i llevar-se a les deu"
    (God is to drink well, to eat fresh and to wake up at ten)
    ------ from the Catalan "Inquisition Trials Archive"



    Cèsar de Quart
    Europe 1200 Team Member


  10. #30
    Almogaver's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    My little grain of sand altough all the above imatges are outstanding!

    Heraldry




    Death of King Peter the Catholic at the Battle of Muret 1213


    King James the Conqueror at the Siege of Mallorca 1229


    Almughavars and members of the Catalan Company 1311

    --------------Arengada--------------


  11. #31
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Crown of Aragon

    Good compilation of information gentlemen but I know it's partly my fault of not updating the info for the second campaign (lack of time) but I can say Aragon will be part of the second campaign since it was involved into the HYW conflict.

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