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Thread: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

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    SonofPeverel's Avatar GLORY TOTHE BROTHERHOOD
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    Default [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    This thread will be about about everything related to the Kingdom of Navarre. Army composition, family trees, political situation, etc. Ready to give info?
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    Last edited by SonofPeverel; December 01, 2011 at 08:42 AM.

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    This faction is kinda obscure, what was really unique regarding Navarre? They were influenced by the French and in fact used several heavy infantry and cavalry or were they specialized in countering those units with crossbow, skirmish and some Spanish strategies?

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    Wallachian's Avatar Equites Cohortales
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    The Basques were in unique in the fact that they were pretty much the only western people that used horsearchers.

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post
    The Basques were in unique in the fact that they were pretty much the only western people that used horsearchers.
    Very Interesting Wallachian, may I ask you to give it a shot regarding their unit roster?

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    Paragon's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    They also should have very good archers. Better at close combat that most archers, but still at best a light infantry unit. They should take a great advantage of terrain if that's possible to represent somehow, if not simply put them even higher missile attack.

    The archers from nowaday's Basque Country and Navarre (those days simply the Kingdom of Navarre) resisted both the Roman and the Moor invasion. In the first case, they were finally conquered


    As you can see it was still the last land to be conquered in Hispania after 200~ years, and it took them 10 years to conquer.

    For the muslims, the northen mountains of Navarre and part of Asturias they were the ONLY part of Spain that the Moors didn't conquer in their great period of expansion, were Pelayo, with an army of mostly if not completey archers (300, 10 and Pelayo surviving) defeated a muslim armie three times their side. Not stopped them, mind you. Defeated to the last man. This is what kept Spain for being completely islamic and made the Reconquisa possible.
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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    They also should have very good archers. Better at close combat that most archers, but still at best a light infantry unit. They should take a great advantage of terrain if that's possible to represent somehow, if not simply put them even higher missile attack.
    Possible to do, could you provide more info about their usual tactics?

    The archers from nowaday's Basque Country and Navarre (those days simply the Kingdom of Navarre) resisted both the Roman and the Moor invasion. In the first case, they were finally conquered
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    As you can see it was still the last land to be conquered in Hispania after 200~ years, and it took them 10 years to conquer.

    For the muslims, the northen mountains of Navarre and part of Asturias they were the ONLY part of Spain that the Moors didn't conquer in their great period of expansion, were Pelayo, with an army of mostly if not completey archers (300, 10 and Pelayo surviving) defeated a muslim armie three times their side. Not stopped them, mind you. Defeated to the last man. This is what kept Spain for being completely islamic and made the Reconquisa possible.
    Quite interesting, Spain and the Reconquista is those factions that I didn't have learn much about them. Wallachian pointed the Navarre were also deploying mounted archers? Could you guys can provide me more info about it?

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    Paragon's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    Possible to do, could you provide more info about their usual tactics?
    I'd gotta research more about that, most of it was simply taking good advantage of the extremely mountainous northern Spain. Still try putting a huge height advantage to 300 archers agaisnt a normal army of 900 Moors with general's bodyguard they end up climbing their way throught, charging and winning. That's why they should have maybe special bonus for height or mountainous northern terrain. I tell you this weekend when I read more about Pelayo's victory and later

    Quite interesting, Spain and the Reconquista is those factions that I didn't have learn much about them. Wallachian pointed the Navarre were also deploying mounted archers? Could you guys can provide me more info about it?
    Mounted archers? Never heard of them, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me, they would be the only Chirstian mounted archers for miles

    So yeah, since I barely know any Basques, I'll post again when I have read up more, bet simply using Spanish sites and not English ones gives more material.
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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    I'd gotta research more about that, most of it was simply taking good advantage of the extremely mountainous northern Spain. Still try putting a huge height advantage to 300 archers agaisnt a normal army of 900 Moors with general's bodyguard they end up climbing their way throught, charging and winning. That's why they should have maybe special bonus for height or mountainous northern terrain. I tell you this weekend when I read more about Pelayo's victory and later
    Eager to see, I may play with the terrain bonuses specifically for them.

    Mounted archers? Never heard of them, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me, they would be the only Chirstian mounted archers for miles
    This is what I believe as well and it will be quite annoying for footmen.

    So yeah, since I barely know any Basques, I'll post again when I have read up more, bet simply using Spanish sites and not English ones gives more material.
    If you can check in those sites, I understand French and English only.

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    Txapelo's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Navarre, from the late 12th century, is quite a peculiar kingdom since it's wedged between two big, expanding kingdoms (Aragon and Castile) and further divided internally by nobles' thrist of power (who, obviously, are backed by foreign forces -especially Castile- in order to undermine Navarre's capacity to counterattack or expansion). However, this inner struggle is (on its early stages, at least) merely political.
    The kingdom was divided in two clear geographical zones, the north (saltus vasconum, comprised by Biscay, Guipuscoa, Northern Navarre and the French Basque Country) being mountainous and covered in woods, where proper the feudal-based serf system is weaker than usual (when compared to Europe) due to scarce arable land and where economical and political interests are organized by valleys - particularly in Guipuscoa - and with small chartered towns being quite common. The south (ager vasconum, comprising middle-south Navarre and Alava) was -and still is- geografically more "Spanish", a dry land with big plains, where feudal agriculture is common, as is noblemen's power. Chartered towns are not as common, although there are a few along the St. Jacques road.

    The "division" of both Navarres (called "Naval Navarre" and "Mainland Navarre" respectively, according to historical texts) caused distress on the kingdom's governance, with Southron lords favouring conquest of Muslim lands (although effectively wedged against the other kingdoms, Navarre still managed to conquer some land further south, although its existance as part of the Kingdom was short lived) and the Northern towns (and small lords) favouring a more defensive stand against neighbours (particularly Castile) and the boost of commerce using the Atlantic ports. Moreover, the importance of chartered towns in the north made the local lords uneasy (who expected hereditary titles over both lands and towns) and sought a way of getting more power (At the same time, the crown wanted to avoid feudal lordships, since the last one had ran over to the Castilian side).
    So when Castille invaded the "Naval Navarre" and Alava in 1199, the conquest was easy: Vitoria, isolated from any help fell after 9 months, San Sebastian surrendering after brief negotiations when the castilian army arrived with some guipuscoan and eastern biscayan bannermen supporting their side. The King, meanwhile, was in Morocco fighting alongside the almohads, hoping to gain support to his cause.

    At this point (early 13th century) Navarre became a small kingdom with little capacity to wage external wars, one of them being its contribution to the christian army of the battle of Navas the Tolosa (1212). After this, however, its history is remarkably dotted with rising, plots, civil wars and nobles' struggles for power (including Guipuscoan nobles, still fighting a bitter civil war for and against the King of Navarre during the 13th and 14th centuries) until bigger countries came into play, with France supporting Navarre (whose dinastic line was tied to the French one, thus the French crown hoped to gain a foothold South of the Pyrenees sometime) and both Castile and Aragon (allied due to the marriage of the Catholic monarchs) favouring a conquest and partition. The conquest war started in 1512, with the Castilian-Aragonese army crossing into Navarre, and finished in 1522, when the last French "liberating" army was defeated and the border was established in the Pyrenees (With the French Basque Country surviving as a petty kingdom first and in personal union with the Crown of France later until the French Revolution).

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    VINC.XXIII's Avatar DŻxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    "Mounted archers? Never heard of them, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me, they would be the only Chirstian mounted archers for miles "
    Horses were only used to move, but they shooted normally, dismounted. Some professional italian archers(used in France) had also crappy mounts, or better ones.
    But never mention of massiv tactics like mongols...
    As for mounted crossbowmen and mounted handgunners, its somewhat different, but even, they didn't praticed "parthian arrow" tactic with their crossbows and handguns.


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    Brigand's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Quite unique to the basques is the succesion rights, The Basques of the Kingdom of Navarre transmitted title and property to the first-born, whatever the gender (Absolute cognatic primogeniture)
    This form of primogeniture was not practiced by any modern monarchy before 1980.
    Perhaps this could be implemented in the form of female rulers (queens basically) if this possible.

    Also, The Basques played an important role in early European ventures into the Atlantic Ocean. Early documents mention the use of whale oil by the Basques as early in 670. Apparently the Basques were averse to the taste of whale meat themselves, but did successful business selling it, and the oil, to the French, Castilians and Flemings. Basque whalers used longboats or traineras.

    Dont know that much about the military of Navarre.

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    Horatio Hornblower's Avatar Aquilifer
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    ΔriŽl's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    Will the mod get to when Kingdom of Navarre was joined in Personal Union with the Kingdom of France ?

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    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Navarre

    I think at the moment it is not even clear if the Spanish factions (as well as the German and Italian ones) are still in the main campaign, so we should wait and see before posting too much on the factions threads.


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