The evolution of man, how?

[Valentin the II]

How did we evolve?
In the whole biological history of earth wich is aprox 4 billion yers, nosing as smart and kompleks as a human ever evolved. How did it happen.
How did we become so dominant?
Some say it was becaws our ansestors lived nier radioactive materials, others say that it was just coincidense. What do you think?

[dashizller]

It was just luck. We were the ones who got the best mutations and adapted the best.

[norma]

we share 95 perc genes with chimps, the last 5 perc r shared with the fruit fly, the bird, the fish and the wait for it DAFFODILL.

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Valentin the II]

It was just luck. We were the ones who got the best mutations and adapted the best.

Rats and insects are alot better at adapting then us, but they cant do anysing extra-inteligent :wink: .

we share 95 perc genes with chimps, the last 5 perc r shared with the fruit fly, the bird, the fish and the wait for it DAFFODILL.

I thoght we shared 75% of oour genes with the fruit fly.
Aniway this rialy doesnt answer my quastion, how did seemingly brainles mamels evolve into aips and then humans? I mean, compared to other criters these wernt the brightest.

PS: nice link dzoavits (where did your name come from? ), but it still doesnt answer the quastion.

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Aemilianus]

I think, Dzoavits, that it was a combination of both types of evolution. It's likely that the end of the Ice Age had something to do with the final transformation, and climate changes throughout history, both gradual and quick, had a lot to do with it as well (the human race had to adapt to each one). Finally, you saw the human race having tools and things, and it went from there. Small evolution is occurring even today- you see the height of the average human increasing, and also the intelligence level increasing as humanity avails itself of those who came before. In many years, I think you'll begin to see larger, more intelligent versions of us, but that is likely millions of years away.

[Sam]

How did we evolve?
In the whole biological history of earth, which is approx. 4 billion years, nothing else as smart and complex as a human ever evolved. How did it happen?
How did we become so dominant?
Some say it was because our ancestors lived near radioactive materials, others say that it was just coincidence. What do you think?

Radioactive materials? Heh, whoever said that needs a slap.
What makes us so different from other species is intelligence. Intelligence evolved because it was favored by natural selection, i.e. higher intelligence would have made better hunters and gatherers, lead to the use of tools, and generally made that animal much better at surviving than its not-so-intelligent counterparts. Here is where natural selection comes in, and the more intelligent creatures are favoured in the long run.

As to why it didn't evolve previously, many speculate that it is due to our ancestors being relatively weak and defenceless when compared to the predators of the day, whose evolution didn't favour intelligence, but strength (like today, you can see all kinds of creatures who fight for mating rights, intelligence is irrelevant to the outcome). Intelligence was our ancestors' way of making up for physical weakness.

[Valentin the II]

Radioactive materials? Heh, whoever said that needs a slap.

Actualy that may be quite logical. Think about it: the only way such smart and secsesfull creatures could apear so sudenly is by their genetic code geting messed up realy fast.
I sink that radioactivity can do that quite well.

What makes us so different from other species is intelligence. Intelligence evolved because it was favored by natural selection, i.e. higher intelligence would have made better hunters and gatherers, lead to the use of tools, and generally made that animal much better at surviving than its not-so-intelligent counterparts.

So why didnt all creatures evolve such robust brains :wink: ?

Here is where natural selection comes in, and the more intelligent creatures are favoured in the long run.

No you will see that in the long run smaller, more adaptable and segnificantly dumber creatures will servive.

As to why it didn't evolve previously, many speculate that it is due to our ancestors being relatively weak and defenceless when compared to the predators of the day, whose evolution didn't favour intelligence, but strength (like today, you can see all kinds of creatures who fight for mating rights, intelligence is irrelevant to the outcome). Intelligence was our ancestors' way of making up for physical weakness.

But the quastion still stands: Why didnt other weak and underpowerd creature divelop big brains? Why didnt our ansesters just borow under grownd like the prehistoric horses (or was it deer?) or divelope very fast bodies like the antilopes?
Another one of the answers is :our arms!
I just thought about it, what other insegnificant anymal has high inteligense?
The octopus (and its cousins ). I mean how could a clam divelop into a highly inteligent predator in just 50 milion yers? Becaws it diveloped grasping arms! The arms stimulated the octopy to think and divelop new strategies for serviving.

Thats my 2 cents, awaiting ripleys.

[Tostig]

Actualy that may be quite logical. Think about it: the only way such smart and secsesfull creatures could apear so sudenly is by their genetic code geting messed up realy fast.

Bollucks. The rate of mutation is able to change. Dawkins presents meme's as a possible reason for the expansion of the human brain and the developement of self-conciousness. Read some of his stuff, it makes sense and it's scientific for a change.

[Valentin the II]

What's a meme?
"and it's scientific for a change"- and what's that saposed to mean?

[Gwendylyn]

Small evolution is occurring even today- you see the height of the average human increasing, and also the intelligence level increasing as humanity avails itself of those who came before. In many years, I think you'll begin to see larger, more intelligent versions of us, but that is likely millions of years away.

The intelligence increase can be explained by better education, sum of knowledge, and lack of a reliable intelligence test before very modern times. The height increase is because we are eating more nutritiously and therefore growing to our full heights.

That's not to say evolution isn't still happening. I imagine that if tall and intelligent people are more likely to reproduce, then we'd evolve into taller more intelligent people. I don't think it's very easy to spot what changes are occuring, though, because it is so gradual.

[Tostig]

I meant that his books are hard science, unlike the pseudo-science and plain wrong things that have said in this forum, such as "If the other berd diveloped the blunt beak it must have a purpes" and "Why didnt our ansesters just borow under grownd like the prehistoric horses (or was it deer?)". However if you wish me to critique all of the unscience in the Athenaeum I'll be quite happy to start a new thread.

The term "meme" (IPA: [miːm]), a theoretical concept introduced in 1976 by Richard Dawkins, refers to any unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice, idea or concept, which one mind transmits (verbally or by demonstration) to another mind. Examples might include thoughts, ideas, theories, practices, habits, songs, dances and moods in addition to concepts such as race. Different definitions of meme generally have in common, very roughly, that a meme consists of some sort of a self-propagating unit of cultural evolution having an analogous resemblance to the gene (the unit of genetic information).

As memes include all or most discrete pieces of information about which humans think, incorporating new memes can alter one's perceptions. Memes in themselves appear morally neutral, not necessarily good nor bad. However, the application of memes can have implications, which may result in either positive or negative results.

Memes have, as their fundamental property, evolution via natural selection in a way very similar to Charles Darwin's ideas concerning biological evolution, on the premise that replication, mutation, survival and competition influence them. For example, while one idea may become extinct, others will survive, spread and mutate — for better or for worse — through modification. Note an important fact, however: not only the memes most beneficial to their hosts will necessarily survive; rather, memes that are the most effective replicators spread best, which allows for the possibility that successful memes might prove detrimental to their hosts.

Wiki source

I believe he first touched upon it in The Blind Watchmaker, but went back to bash how (in his opinion) the softer sciences had misunderstood it in A Devil’s Chaplain.

N.B. I didn't intend this and my previous post to come out as agressively as they did. I've toned down this one a tad but left my previous one untouched. I merely meant to criticise the number and frequency of unscientific posts in a science sub forum.

[Valentin the II]

First of all the "berd sing" was compleatly logical.
Evrysing has a purpes, spiesies dont change for no reason.
Second: there were small horse like cretures in the americas (althou I dont rimember to whom they where rilated). In prehistoric times, once the weather became colder, the forests in the americas disapiard and only praries where left (mostly). Then many creatures started borowing dens under ground to shelter themselvs from the predators. One of these creatures where these prehistoric horses (or deer/antilope, I realy dont know to whome they where rilated).
So not much pseudo-science in my posts.
Also, I dont realy see any concrete science in the meme's.
As said in the article the meme's are just a theoretical concept, that realy doesnt afect evolution althou it is similar to it in theory.

PS: You still didnt answer the main quastion tostig.

[Tostig]

Why didnt other weak and underpowerd creature divelop big brains?

?

Why, at a stab either because they couldn't find the necessary materials in their diet, because they lacked a social structure which meant that a higher intellect would be useful, or just because it turned out that way. Mutation (and to a certain extent genetic drift), are random.

On the "blunt beak" subject - For the last seventy years or so it has been generally acknowledged that genetic drift plays a bigger factor in mutation than natural selection in smaller populations (such as Galapagos-ian birds, which I assume you are referring to.) There doesn't have to be a purpose behind mutation, nor indeed evolution to a large extent.

[Valentin the II]

?
On the "blunt beak" subject - For the last seventy years or so it has been generally acknowledged that genetic drift plays a bigger factor in mutation than natural selection in smaller populations (such as Galapagos-ian birds, which I assume you are referring to.) There doesn't have to be a purpose behind mutation, nor indeed evolution to a large extent.

Sory this doest fit in my primetiv brain.
Why the hell whold a berd divelop a blunt beak if it isnt going to use it!?
This is irational!
If someone changes he/she/it does so for a reason!
Genetic drifts hapen as a resolt of natural selction so eiser you are wrong ore I'm realy confused .

Good night, see you in the morning!

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Don't think that we are the most advanced mutations on Earth...

Meet the Kangaroo Rat...

Kangaroo Rats can live their entire lives without drinking a drop of liquid. All of the water they need to survive can be metabolized within their bodies from starch and fats in the dry seeds they eat. They are also masters at conserving moisture; their kidneys have the ability to concentrate urine 4 to 5 times that of humans

Source

[Tostig]

If someone changes he/she/it does so for a reason!

That's what I'm trying to get across to you, it doesn't have to happen for a reason other than that
a) There was a mutation which caused it.
b) The mutation has been passed on.
Natural selection "prunes" out less favourable mutations, however in a small population the mutations per population is higher, and so natural selection plays a far smaller role.

Whereas natural selection describes the tendency of beneficial alleles to become more common over time, genetic drift refers to the fundamental tendency of any allele to vary randomly in frequency over time due to statistical variation alone.

[Sam]

Actualy that may be quite logical. Think about it: the only way such smart and secsesfull creatures could apear so sudenly is by their genetic code geting messed up realy fast.
I sink that radioactivity can do that quite well.

Unless you live in the marvel universe, the genetic mutations caused by ionizing radiation are not beneficial, and would lead to things like cancer and/or radiation sickness.

So why didnt all creatures evolve such robust brains :wink: ?

Natural selection didn't favour the smarter creatures in other species. It did with our ancestors.

No you will see that in the long run smaller, more adaptable and segnificantly dumber creatures will servive.

Intelligence gives rise to adaptability, for example, making shelters, tools, hunting strategies, social groups. Humans have been living all over the globe for many thousands of years, in some places where many dumber animals would quickly perish.

But the quastion still stands: Why didnt other weak and underpowerd creature divelop big brains? Why didnt our ansesters just borow under grownd like the prehistoric horses (or was it deer?) or divelope very fast bodies like the antilopes?
Another one of the answers is :our arms!

Trees are much safer from most predators than a deer-sized burrow, and without arms what primate could have possibly survived for long? Yeah, arms are an important requirement for movement between branches, and would be wasted on digging a burrow when you could just climb a tree.

I just thought about it, what other insegnificant anymal has high inteligense?
The octopus (and its cousins ). I mean how could a clam divelop into a highly inteligent predator in just 50 milion yers? Becaws it diveloped grasping arms! The arms stimulated the octopy to think and divelop new strategies for serviving.

The octopus isn't exactly what I would call intelligent, I think its about equivalent to your average house cat, but as far as ocean life is concerned, its definently ahead of most other species.

[Valentin the II]

Sory tostig I didnt know what you ment.
I know that there are "unfavorable mutations" but I still dont sink that these mutations afect evolution that much outside a small surkel.
I hope you understood what my gibrish .

Unless you live in the marvel universe, the genetic mutations caused by ionizing radiation are not beneficial, and would lead to things like cancer and/or radiation sickness.

Not all animals are afected by radiation that way.
Radiation can do marvelous sings. Althou most animals die from it or get negative properties some may improove. It may be very unlikely, but you never know......

Intelligence gives rise to adaptability, for example, making shelters, tools, hunting strategies, social groups. Humans have been living all over the globe for many thousands of years, in some places where many dumber animals would quickly perish.

Tell that to the bakteria .
Its a fact: the smaller the animal the more adapteble it is.

Trees are much safer from most predators than a deer-sized burrow, and without arms what primate could have possibly survived for long? Yeah, arms are an important requirement for movement between branches, and would be wasted on digging a burrow when you could just climb a tree.

So you agree with me about the arm sing.
Wait no you dont:

The octopus isn't exactly what I would call intelligent, I think its about equivalent to your average house cat, but as far as ocean life is concerned, its definently ahead of most other species.

Actualy, the octopus is one of the smartest animals on earth folowing the apes and dolphines.
They comunicate, recognise simbols (complex ones) and iven the smallest (and dumbest) spieces of cephalopods can be taught to "draw on themselvs".
By draw on themselvs I mean create simbols like an X or O on theyr bodies to comunicate with the scientists.
Considering that they evolved from clams in a preaty short time (in evolutionary terms), hey are preaty impresive.