TATW Unofficial patch 4.0

[Emperor of Hell]

Then you do not remember Bolg, Azog's son, who command the Goblins/Orcs during the Battle of the Five Armies
Why they did not jus stuck to him instead of adding the dead Azog I do not get (nor approve of )

There are still 2 more parts to come, I presume they will put Bolg in 2 or 3.

[Ngugi]

Still it is that it is just as faulty as if they would have kept and said in the LotR-movies that Gil-galad never died in the war of the LA, and now he run around and, say, save the hobbits and Aragorn at Amôn Sûl
Sure, many would say how cool it is, but that's not the point weither it's cool in my opinion hehe.

Sorry Leo', shouldn't start such a debate in your thread

[leo.civil.uefs]

UPDATE.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Looks nice! And fits more in Osgiliath, since that city was missing 1 of the major bridges anyway.
I love Cirith Ungol!

[Eönwë]

Very nice work there leo! Looks great!
Q: Is there a submod using your Rivendell version? Is the pathfinding been fixed? (Don't know if I should call it pathfinding but I mean the way the AI and my troops move around and the places where it can stand)

[Ngugi]

Unghol and Dûm simply screams delightful evil

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Dwarven Berserker]

Cirith Ungol looks epic

And nice solution for Osgiliaths bridge-problem

[Rora Lion]

Cirith Ungol is gorgeous !

[mondpeiler]

I don't want to be the fun-wrecker, but I have to add some things.
please don't understand this as a rant, but as constructive critics.
(I hope my post doesn't sound too nasty. it is my personal view, so think about it, or ignore it - that's up to you )

first of all your Cirith Ungol is a nice settlement and well made (and it pleases many here, as I read the comments).
but for me it's a bit too far from the film-version.

I can see, that there is the problem with this very dense/narrow fortress, where to put the central plaza and where to deploy the garrison.
and your thought, to widen up the "settlement" and put the plaza next to the tower is a good solution - well indeed I can't see another better solution.
but your treatement of this solution and the tower itself is not so good (in my opinion).
my points:
first: your tower is very "flat" - it should be higher I think.
second: you could easily achieve this dense fealing in the entrance-part, by building the tower nearer to the outer wall, like in the following pictures:

ok first a look at yours (and the pathfinding, as I see it out of the pictures):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

then the height and density of the tower:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

next one: proposed accessible walls and alternative pathfinding:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and a closer look at the alternative pathfinding issue:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I hope you see my points.
again, this is not a rant, just a personal view.
in general I really appreciate the effort you take to build all those settlements for the community, but these are the points that I would have made in a different way - if I could handle the tools (what I can't )

so in general for your work.

[Emperor of Hell]

Your ideas would look more like the movies but I think the AI won't be able to handle such narrow space between the walls. It already has problems in vanilla settlements with pathfinding

[Förster44]

Looking great so far! I'm already excited for your future work.
Btw, I don't think at all that the images of your first Cirith Ungol should be banned, they just show how you've advanced in creating settlements

Furthermore, I think you mistyped a version number, it's either Cirith Ungol 2.0 (Heading in the first post) or Cirith Ungol 3.0 (Number in the thread title). Having two enumerations for the same might make things a bit ... complicated

[chriskourou]

It keeps on getting better and better!!!

[paradamed]

Leo, I loved Cirith Ungol. The main reason is how it is inserted in the terrain. I really like the idea of a fortress that is built in a favorable place using the natural resources around it. Just like Hornburg was encrusted in the mountains, so is Cirith Ungol. Beautiful stuff! One of the most unrealistic stuff in vanilla medieval is that most of all cities and fortresses are just built on flat surfaces, like people in Middle Ages would have dynamite to make their cities. Another unrealistic thing in vanilla is that cities are never really near rivers. It feels good to have more uniqueness to the TATW settlements! The new bridge in Osgiliath is more aesthetically pleasant and I liked it too.

[leo.civil.uefs]

I will not admit any type of criticism! And...

kidding...

Here we go...

but for me it's a bit too far from the film-version.

I do not agreed. It isnt too far. Its basically based on the concept you posted on the pics, plus changed some layout to be handable by the AI and some 3d shape changes because Im not a professional and this is VERY WORK/TIME DEMANDING. Not even KK's settlements are totally equal to the movies, Im not comparing my work with his, just using as a parameter.

I can see, that there is the problem with this very dense/narrow fortress, where to put the central plaza and where to deploy the garrison.

Exactly

and your thought, to widen up the "settlement" and put the plaza next to the tower is a good solution - well indeed I can't see another better solution.

Me neither.

my points:
first: your tower is very "flat" - it should be higher I think.

It is high! Look at the men near it, and also remember that if more high than this it would be dificult to appreciate the model, wich is not a masterpiece but I think it really worth a look.

second: you could easily achieve this dense fealing in the entrance-part, by building the tower nearer to the outer wall, like in the following pictures:

ok first a look at yours (and the pathfinding, as I see it out of the pictures):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

then the height and density of the tower:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The fisrt version was more narrow, but looking to a preview you cant understand. Try deploying 1 full stack in huge mode inside it, it would be a complete mess. It must be playable.

Your red arrow in the first picture is completly wrong. This is not the path. The place you point are not even acesible, its a cliff, and it is high.

next one: proposed accessible walls and alternative pathfinding:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and a closer look at the alternative pathfinding issue:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is exactly how it is in my settlement. Fisrtly, the walls are acessible. Second: There is that upper catwalk (wich is acessible by the way! for soldiers moving in/out the wall), after entering the gate, your troops must walk under it and then find a new ramp to reach the plaza. Exactly how you show in your pictures!

Some details like modelled stairs cannot be added because of engine limitations, units walking in catwalks like that dont move like in a stair but like in a plane. The wall detailment cannot be made the same from the model you show, because walls must be vanilla to work, otherwise animations will not work. So I had to create the rest of the settlement to match with the vanilla walls.

Everyone can give his opinion, in fact, the comunity's opinion has changed most of my settlements. As Im not always able to recognize how bizarre some of my settlements were, like the first version of ungol...

Thanks all guys for the feedback, Im aslo happy with the result. And yes, terrain maters a lot, it really brings a lot o immersion fighting in a huge canyon.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Would be awsome if you could redo Moria with the current recources of KK's settlement. I just think Moria should be.. Well.... Larger then that haha.

[paradamed]

Yes, by comparing the height of the tower with the soldiers, the tower really seems the adequate height. Maybe because it is near the mountain gives the false impression it is not that tall. Maybe because the settlement is also wider gives the same effect but I think the settlement is perfect right now. Now I can just imagine it in the proper dark lands of Mordor. I think the fact we have green vegetation and clear sky in the preview subtracts from the overall impression people might be having. I bet that if it would already be in the dark climate of Mordor people would be drooling even more.

[Araval]

Looks simply awesome!

[mondpeiler]

I will not admit any type of criticism!

Oh! I didn't know, sry, my fault.

I do not agreed. It isnt too far.

well, out of my perspective it is, but let's settle this. most of the audience enjoys it, so you made it right in a democratic kind of fashion.
[my point would be, to have the tower nearer to the gate, as a connecting element of the first and second wall-ring and the second wall a bit higher then the first. that's what i mean with movie-version. behind this and the narrow passage between the walls, the settlement can strech as far as it wants. - and maybe this is the reason, why your tower looks small - it is farer away and not connected to the lower buildings]

Not even KK's settlements are totally equal to the movies, ...

absolutely! and I'm the last one who wouldn't critisize KK as well - in deed I wrote somwhere in the previews, that I don't like the treatment of the destroyed walls and the transition to the (intact) gateways in Osgiliath for example.
or the settlement east of the anduin where the rangers hide?! (damn! can't recall its name atm)
I cannot really recognise it (in fact it wasn't really shown in the movie so much of interpretation here).
I'm not one of those "all-hail-the-kk"- guys who think that all he does is so magnifficent and all others suck.
you're making good settlements as well - like esgaroth for example (so you could compare to KK if you wanted).
I just can't go with you at this one.
but most people do, I think I'm the only one who suggests changes.

Your red arrow in the first picture is completly wrong. This is not the path. The place you point are not even acesible, its a cliff, and it is high.

ok, this is something I clearly misinterpreted. then you made it right pathfinding-technical. but in the movie-version at this point you would run straigt into the tower while on your picture it looked like a green grasy ramp (I know the textures will be changed).

The wall detailment cannot be made the same from the model you show, because walls must be vanilla to work, ...

yeah, that's absolutely fine, I didn't think of those minor details. my concern is more the floor-plan of the castle.

Im aslo happy with the result.

so if you are, then it is right.
just wanted to ad my opinion in case I could convince you.

[leo.civil.uefs]

GREEEEEAT NEWS GUYS!

I have just finally fixed the old no attacking AI issue.
Just added a new second gate on DOL AMROTH, inside the city, and now the AI seems to work even better than that in vanilla cities. LOL

As Dol Amroth is one of the most complex settlements for the AI, that probably means the entire point about pathfinding is where the plaza is and the amount of walls/gates/perimeters you have.

So I guess now we can make Minas Tirith with 2 or 3 gate lines and the plaza on its top like it should always be!
The same will probably fix the rivendell no attacking AI.
The same will probably allow me to place the ESGAROTH plaza in the end of the settlement, behind the pallace and not in the middle of the settlement (KK place it there because AI was not attacking properly).
That always open to us possibilities of making far more complex settlements.
I just played a battle in DOL AMROTH with the new gate inside the city and it really brings a new tactical concept for the settlement. The AI can handle it totally! All the streets, the ramp to reach the pallace and the plaza...LEAVING NO UNITS STUCK OUTSIDE THE SETTLEMENT.

Im very happy that I finally found a solution.

Problems like this in Carn Dum and Dain's Halls will probably also be fixed so the settlements will finally be ready to be added on the next patch.

Anyway its tOo early to confim all that, for now, DOL AMROTH is finally working like a charm! I will work on the rest.

We should call the police in Germany and tell them to found KK and bring him back to his obligations with TATW...

[Emperor of Hell]