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Thread: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

  1. #121
    CraigTW's Avatar Creative Assembly
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Regardless of 'rules of programming', working on a game and getting it out there isn't a walk in the park. There are a lot of pressures and deadlines - and even with a huge team, documentation is often something which isn't a high priority. This is the case at nearly every games studio out there.

    Game design docs, specifications are different - they're written by designers. Designers don't code tools, however.

    Like I said, though, it's something I'm banging the drum about for you guys as I think we can do more here.

    As far as polls go, we always look at them. Any poll out there usually gets seen by the team in some form.
    Last edited by CraigTW; December 02, 2011 at 04:00 AM.

  2. #122
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Good to know, let's hope we'll have enough votes to spark more interest.

    And I don't want to put oil on the fire, but working on a game probably doesn't have much more pressure than making software for the industry.
    Same pressure, same deadlines, same rules?

    About the docs, we ahve nothing at the moment for the maps. So we'd take anything you have. Design doc (I'm talking about "map structure design" here, I.e the way it's supposed to be coded, not about gameplay design), specifications, diagram written by hand on a paper napkin during the lunch break, any thing.
    Last edited by Steph; December 02, 2011 at 04:04 AM.

  3. #123
    Jack Lusted's Avatar Creative Assembly
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Be aware a new campaign map is months of work, it would need to be a very large amount of demand for it to be viable, especially as it is for a game we have not made a campaign for since Peninsular.
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  4. #124
    Plumo's Avatar Taihō no heishi
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    If you look at the progress on Third Age : total war with the IWTE editor... customs settlements (I mean, not even CA titles have this :p ), etc. a total overhaul of medieval 2. It would be a shame if this wasn't possible anymore in the present and future CA releases

    I'm sure you guys work with top notch editing programs for the warscape engine. Making a version for the community ( like Skyrim creation kit) wouldnt hurt DLC sales, would it? the reputation of bethesda doesnt suffer from releasing this kit, on the contrary

  5. #125
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    Be aware a new campaign map is months of work, it would need to be a very large amount of demand for it to be viable, especially as it is for a game we have not made a campaign for since Peninsular.
    Aren't we running in circle here? You claim creating a decent editor would take time. But you said you waste months to create a map? If you had "wasted" a few weeks to make an editor, wouldn't you have saved months on the long run?

    I have difficulties understanding how it can take months to add some regions to an existing maps. We are not asking for new army setup, new units, new game rules, or even to create new terrain. Just a few more regions. We can edit victory conditions or script ourselves.

    Can you explain why it takes so long? Does it require so much manual work? I'm sure you could find help from the community if it's just work force you are after. Free labour to help you make your map.
    As the other said : ask and you shall receive.

    We can make the design/historical research for you. We can draw the boundaries for you. We could edit the db for you. Tell us what you need to help. See? The communit tries to be as supportive as it can toward CA. We are just hoping to get some reciprocity.
    Last edited by Steph; December 02, 2011 at 06:05 AM.

  6. #126
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    A thread has been created here for a petition for a new map.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post10678739
    On the other hand :
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    Be aware a new campaign map is months of work, it would need to be a very large amount of demand for it to be viable, especially as it is for a game we have not made a campaign for since Peninsular.
    So, I agree with Steph.
    We lack information to understand CA : creating a map editor is a waste of time, creating a new map need to much time ?

    If it's so long to create a new campaign map, create a map editor that allow to modify it faster (and with a lower cost) isn't certainly a waste of time, but maybe a waste of money if they allow the community to use such tool.

    I don't know what CA has done with campaign map system, but they have a really big problem now if it take month to only modify such map.

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  7. #127
    PROMETHEUS ts's Avatar VAE VICTIS
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Ok thanks for the answers but Coudld I have one Final answer on those topics please???


    Q: Can you make an update about the modding situation ? Because since S2 was released we haven't seen anything about that aspect (no offense). Thanks

    Understandable that you're frustrated about the silence. Believe me when I say that's about getting it right and ensuring that you hear something of substance rather than fobbing you off with platitudes
    I mean three things as for modding :

    1 code and text stuff is alreay possible to some extent to change ( look at Darth mod etc)

    2 Allow a terrain Editor ( Just like in STW1 ) to create battlefields, place objects , have fun playing wiht it and share the new maps for the gamers online for new cool battlefields ... this is a feature that can't be considerd pure modding but it is a very important feature I think that will ensure a lot of longevity to the game itself .... allow players to play and share maps , erase from their pool the ones they dont like and allow the ones they do , make ppl download instantly a map when joining a battle if they dont have etc.... allow possibility to paint on the same map the dislocation of forces, the passable or unpassable areas , pathfinding etc all this woudl really help a lot.

    3 Meshes and models import export and replace ... this is the pure modding features that are gone missing since the total modding of rtw , just look at the flood of mods and total conversion made for RTW and compare with the ones did for STW2 .... this is a pure modding feature that woudl need to be considered for pure modding

    4 Map modding and political gameplay , since that is the hardest but still was possible in rtw I would place that at the bottom of my list .... but still a mandatory feature for total overhauls ....


    Now that said , on a side note ... I woudl really like to say that the "blood pack" feels more like a mod than a pack to pay for ... I honestly bought and looked at it ingame , looks way exagerated and I will check for a way to uninstall it or disable , so I feel a bit displeased about it , if I didn't have to spend money on it tough it woudl be just another cool feature ingame .... what I personally think is that this "blood thing" shoudl have been inserted in the original game as optional since beginning , and not release it after for money ... as it really has the feeel of a mod!



    Oh and can I have an answer n this that I read every once and then when the argument is considered:

    Is it true that a korean invasion expansion , featuring china , mongols , japanese and koreans for the war after the unification of japan ( in my opinion way more interesting and worth for an expansion than the boshin 1 year campain , I woudln't even call it a war, and surely not a total war ... ) Is forbidden by SEGA? or scrapped for political implication ??? Seems absurd to me ...
    Last edited by PROMETHEUS ts; December 02, 2011 at 06:31 AM.

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  8. #128
    CraigTW's Avatar Creative Assembly
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Creating a campaign map editor is the kind of thing that is incredibly easy to say and incredibly hard to actually do at the moment. It's hard for us to explain the reasons for this as there are so many of them, but I'll explain briefly.

    There is all sorts of data compiled into the campaign map format - so creating a "map editor" wouldn't solve the problem (we actually use third-party modelling tools for creating the geometry), our database editor plugs into that, then there's campaign code, pathfinding code, locomotion, etc.

    The situation is, coders need to be able to handle stuff in a different way to designers and input those changes without bottlenecks. So a map editor would actually likely slow us down. Maybe in future we'll handle things differently, but it has to be right for the game - the thing we're charging money for and people expect to be right.

    Prometheus - some of the stuff you've mentioned above has been discussed. I'm hoping we can do something with battle maps in the future, but we're not promising anything.
    Last edited by CraigTW; December 02, 2011 at 06:35 AM.

  9. #129
    PROMETHEUS ts's Avatar VAE VICTIS
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    Creating a campaign map editor is the kind of thing that is incredibly easy to say and incredibly hard to actually do at the moment.

    There is all sorts of data compiled into the campaign map format - so creating a "map editor" wouldn't solve the problem (we actually use third-party modelling tools for creating the geometry).

    The situation is, coders need to be able to handle stuff in a different way to designers and input those changes without bottlenecks. So a map editor would actually likely slow us down.

    Prometheus - some of the stuff you've mentioned above has been discussed. I'm hoping we can do something with battle maps in the future, but we're not promising anything.
    There are many third party tools , I use as well from worldmachine to geocontrol and whatever other terrain creation it is implied , making it more accessible woudl help a lot , I remfer mostly to the battlefields , this is something that alone could double the lifespan of each title and keep us busy while waiting for the next ...

    but for the other modding I guess you know the situation ....

    what about the SEGA Veto ?

    pps the units in STW2are perfect and awesome perfect balance between Realism and unit colors for faction I hope to see this again in next titles ...

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  10. #130
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    Creating a campaign map editor is the kind of thing that is incredibly easy to say and incredibly hard to actually do at the moment. It's hard for us to explain the reasons for this as there are so many of them, but I'll explain briefly.

    There is all sorts of data compiled into the campaign map format - so creating a "map editor" wouldn't solve the problem (we actually use third-party modelling tools for creating the geometry), our database editor plugs into that, then there's campaign code, pathfinding code, locomotion, etc.

    The situation is, coders need to be able to handle stuff in a different way to designers and input those changes without bottlenecks. So a map editor would actually likely slow us down. Maybe in future we'll handle things differently, but it has to be right for the game - the thing we're charging money for and people expect to be right.

    Prometheus - some of the stuff you've mentioned above has been discussed. I'm hoping we can do something with battle maps in the future, but we're not promising anything.
    Thanks for the start of explanation...
    Now, if you'd have to modify the current Europe map for NTW, to split some regions in several parts (the map is there, you need to add a few borders and cities, and hopefully you have some automated tools that would recompile the pathfinding, lomocotion, etc) for you, would it be as long as creating a new map for a new campaign like you did for Peninsula from scratch?
    How long would it really take, and is there anyway we can help you?
    We are trying to be constructive here, how can we go further?

  11. #131
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Craig/Lusted. I've been enjoying and supporting the blood pack vociferously. Thank you for listening to requests.

    Now, If I may suggest: A DLC that allowed for a single man unit, such as a sword saint that wandered randomly around the map to be hired would be highly recieved, I feel sure. Ignoring the 'historical accuracy' poseurs, if CA were to release a DLC with distinctive single person heroes with some pumped stats and animations I'd order it instantly, and I'm sure a sizeable amount of the consumer base would as well.
    Just putting it out there. Is there even the remotest chance of getting such a DLC?
    Thanks once again.

  12. #132
    jonny duck's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Arrrgh! View Post
    Craig/Lusted. I've been enjoying and supporting the blood pack vociferously. Thank you for listening to requests.

    Now, If I may suggest: A DLC that allowed for a single man unit, such as a sword saint that wandered randomly around the map to be hired would be highly recieved, I feel sure. Ignoring the 'historical accuracy' poseurs, if CA were to release a DLC with distinctive single person heroes with some pumped stats and animations I'd order it instantly, and I'm sure a sizeable amount of the consumer base would as well.
    Just putting it out there. Is there even the remotest chance of getting such a DLC?
    Thanks once again.
    To build on that suggestion, I'm sure many people would like to see the inclusion of more historical figures. Famous generals/warriors, agents etc. They would have their own spawn criteria (such as William Wallace in the Britannia campaign) or be faction specific recruitable units. Another solution might be that when certain family members come of age, they gain unique traits e.g. When Oda Nobunaga comes of age or Date Masamune.

  13. #133
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny duck View Post
    To build on that suggestion, I'm sure many people would like to see the inclusion of more historical figures. Famous generals/warriors, agents etc. They would have their own spawn criteria (such as William Wallace in the Britannia campaign) or be faction specific recruitable units. Another solution might be that when certain family members come of age, they gain unique traits e.g. When Oda Nobunaga comes of age or Date Masamune.
    Great, great idea. Fully support.

  14. #134
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    @Craig: Do you get/read PM here?

  15. #135
    General George S. Patton's Avatar Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    What was the general reaction at CA when modders figured out how to get more than 20 units in a army, and where they expecting it?

  16. #136
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Suggestion for an improved map, link for petition in my signature

  17. #137
    Neoton's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    I would totally buy this, sir!
    It would be good to make some more factions playable, such as Spain and The Ottoman Empire and make Bulgaria and Serbia liberatable, and also extend the map a little bit into Caucasus, so that if you want to attack The Ottoman Empire as Russia(or the opposite), you can do it on two fronts!
    Last edited by Neoton; December 03, 2011 at 05:11 AM.

  18. #138
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    We can already have Spain and Ottomans playable. Adding a few factions (Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Hessen Darmstad / Hessen KAssel, Baden) could be nice, but I could live without it.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    There is all sorts of data compiled into the campaign map format - so creating a "map editor" wouldn't solve the problem (we actually use third-party modelling tools for creating the geometry), our database editor plugs into that, then there's campaign code, pathfinding code, locomotion, etc.
    Ok, ok. A campaign map editor is impossible. But I want you kindly to notice that you haven't told us (almost) nothing. You said there's campaign code, pathfinding code and so on. Well, tell us something about one of those codes. Something about pathfinding or the usefulness of poi.esf. Release even every simple tools: for instance a tool that allow us to add or remove an army or a navy everywhere we want on the map.

    The documentation is huge? Give us a little part of it, even if it could be incomprehensible without knowing all the rest.

    Give us something. We need a starting point.

  20. #140
    IGdood's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: CA: What we're up to update (Q&A thread)

    Can we rename units in singleplayer, pretty please?

    -broken record mode-

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