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Thread: [FotS]Tosa tips

  1. #1

    Default [FotS]Tosa tips

    Any tips on building eco as Tosa? I got teared to threads by a shogunate clan placed near sado (Fleet monger ftl) after uniting shikoku under my banner (no dishonourable acts) and i never could get a decent income going with just one army stack and a few garrison units up. I had cotton industry going in 3 of the provinces, with the other 2 used to recruit units (awa had a tier 2 modern unit structure).

    Also what does "improved defences" do? it does reduce city upgrade cost? it literally does nothing to cities/garrison upgrade costs for me atm so just asking while im checking if my mods is messing up arts

    edit: before you say "trade", try trading with clans that all say "unacceptable" and wont accept money gift for less than 1500 koku >.<

  2. #2
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Yeah some tips would be nice. Im planning to do a campaign on hard as tosa next, and i can use some advice too

  3. #3

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by zhiphius View Post
    Any tips on building eco as Tosa? I got teared to threads by a shogunate clan placed near sado (Fleet monger ftl) after uniting shikoku under my banner (no dishonourable acts) and i never could get a decent income going with just one army stack and a few garrison units up. I had cotton industry going in 3 of the provinces, with the other 2 used to recruit units (awa had a tier 2 modern unit structure).

    Also what does "improved defences" do? it does reduce city upgrade cost? it literally does nothing to cities/garrison upgrade costs for me atm so just asking while im checking if my mods is messing up arts

    edit: before you say "trade", try trading with clans that all say "unacceptable" and wont accept money gift for less than 1500 koku >.<
    got it sorted, seems i was really unlucky on my first try (actually 3 first ). the eastern major shogun clans somehow goblet up everything east of kyoto and grew huge within a very short time (never seen such nasty fast expansion since one of my first chosokabe campaigns where uesugi had all but 6 provinces on honshu when i was done taking kyushu and improved it abit )

    also nvm improved defences, sorted the mod that bugged it and saw it reduces garrison upgrade cost.

    Existenze still need help though ^^ im still green at fots so dont think my "advices" would be good

  4. #4
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by zhiphius View Post

    Existenze still need help though ^^ im still green at fots so dont think my "advices" would be good
    No any advice is welcome, to see how the campaign evolves. What difficulty did you play on?

    Ive red somewhere an advice on how to take the whole island: declare war on the marugame (sanuki province, North east) together with your ally, before you conquer Iyo (so they invade awa). That way either marugame defeats your ally, but is very weakened, or they lose the battle and are also very weaked, so you can conquer them easily.

    I was also thinking of exapnding o bizen afterwards, cause they have a smith. But i dont know if you have the resources for it on hard

  5. #5

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    No any advice is welcome, to see how the campaign evolves. What difficulty did you play on?

    Ive red somewhere an advice on how to take the whole island: declare war on the marugame (sanuki province, North east) together with your ally, before you conquer Iyo (so they invade awa). That way either marugame defeats your ally, but is very weakened, or they lose the battle and are also very weaked, so you can conquer them easily.

    I was also thinking of exapnding o bizen afterwards, cause they have a smith. But i dont know if you have the resources for it on hard
    i played on normal mode (im still familiarising myself with the units and mechanics).

    i got screwed the first few tries as the shogunate clans near edo kept growing insanely strong very fast and then most declare war on me for whatever reason sending 2~stacks at a time i was still dealing with the 2nd clan (north of Tosa's ally).

    My last attempt was simply lucky, my starting ally didnt take the maru out, allowing me to eliminate their army in open battle before taking their province. The shgounate forces around edo didnt steamroll the area either giving me time to actually build a good economy and a solid army.
    After that i captured the province choshu start in and the one south of it.
    Developed economy, built another army, then went for the 2 island provinces off kyushu's north coast.
    Rince and repeat building and when i felt strong enough i captured sagami/musashi, waging a agent war against the blue playable shogun clan which made them implode.

    With AI imperial clans controlling the 2nd objective province, all i had to do was steamroll the rest of the provinces needed for victory. (short campaign).

    basically i made sure i had a good happiness (arts/honor/agents) a solid army (tosa/imperial gun units, yari ki, parrot cannons, a few spear units), took out weaker clans with no connection, allying with clans in the vicinity and expanded when i knew i was ready.

    They arent that likely to backstab you on normal though, so you'll have to take ally backstab into account on hard. But in all honesty, having a 2-3 yari cav's in my armies and getting the Tosa line inf. early on helped alot. (yari ki have single handly won several battles for me :o)

    edit: i did use tosa as a "unit recruiting" province, the 2nd province you get just til i had enough yari ki, then demo'd the dojo and swapped for an inn. Used agents and a few cheap units to handle happiness until i could do it through other means.

    edit 2: early on i focused as said to get a few yari ki out, but otherwise relied on cheap ass units. Rather getting economy up.
    Last edited by zhiphius; August 05, 2012 at 04:18 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    I tried taking over Shikoku but progress was to slow, I've never liked being on Shikoku anyways. So I'm in favor of this idea. Load up all your troops and send them to attack Kii province(Wakayama). Also on the first turn give Ozu 20 turns of military access and about 2300 to become your vassal. Then declare war on Marugame having your new vassal join you. Either your vassal or your ally should be able to take out Marugame.

    Put your taxes on very high and let the rebels take Tosa as soon as you take Kii but recruit some troops and send them over to Kii before the rebels take it(demolish the cadet school if you want or leave it). Then go about taking over the rest of central honshu.

  7. #7

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    If you don't mind my somewhat scientific/gamey opening, here's how I open as Tosa(did a few practice runs as I was about to play a multiplayer campaign with my friend).

    Step 1: Put your fleet into port, and load everything you have onto it, dont worry about -1 happiness in Tosa, we will deal with that in step 2.

    Step 2: Build exactly 3 line infantry in tosa, save the rest of your money. Do not destroy the cadet school.

    Step 3: research foreign arms(or whatever it's called, it's the one which enables you to upgrade your cadet school which will unlock tosa riflemen).

    Step 4: Sail your entire fleet around to the north side of the island(which is where the landing zone for the clan you are at war with is). Use the western side as it is quickest.

    Step 5: Watch as the AI burns your farm(don't repair it just yet) then walks back to the road and skips almost an entire turn in order to wait for a single unit(this is why you build exactly 3 line infantry from the start, otherwise the AI will be brave enough to attack your city right away). These delays will make it so that your initial fleet+army reaches his home city before he reaches yours.

    Step 6:Auto-calc the siege battle for an easy victory and watch his army disband because it has no home region. Kill the single unit that remains as a rebel.


    At this point you have roughly 5k gold, no war, and an ally. Occasionally your ally will be attacked, in such cases I would recommend breaking the alliance and simply accepting the dishonor loss, as if you are both at war, the enemy AI will *always* choose you, not your ally, as his target. This is disadvantageous as from your new northern harbour it takes exactly 2 turns to load up an army(if it is waiting by the port) land at the beachhead in Sanuki and then conquer the city the turn thereafter. This can be managed by a general and 3-4 infantry units if you keep track of where his army is(hopefully trying to attack your current or former ally). Keep 2 gun boats in range of his city so that you can always see where his army is.

    Once you have 2-3 regions on your island, I would recommend going all out civil techs(focusing on getting foreign trade up ASAP) and building up your economy as fast as possible, disbanding most of your trash army(but only if your only neighbour is a trusted ally, as then there is almost no risk of attack) and prepare to invade satsuma(or whoever controls Kyushu). This because attacking mainland Japan is usually a recipe for disaster(too many angles of attack and you can easily get bogged down in multiple wars that you are unable to end).

    So to sum up, blitz Shikoku so that you get 2-4 regions, then spend some 20 turns or so on all-out maxing your economy. After which you will probably be development level 4 and able to get kneel fire. Build a stack of good line infantry(Bear infantry + some brits or yanks) and a bunch of Tosa Riflemen. When you later fight, just drag out a massive line of units and enable kneel fire and watch as your enemy can't even touch you.

    This turned into a slightly longer post than I had hoped haha, anyways, good luck!

  8. #8
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Started my campaign on hard. Managed to knock out Ozu pretty easy, with the help of naval bombardment. Declared war on marugame before i captured Iyo, so they took Awa but were heavenly weakened. Some more naval bombardments and quick reaction got me Awa and sanuki, just before fall sets in. Thanks to william willis (+2 happines and +10% replenishment for 12 turns), i could leave my settlements ungarrisoned and quickly knock out marugame.

    So now i'm on a split. Fukuyama has taken two extra provinces (including choshu) and has declared war on me. I could take Awaji province (the small island east of shikoku), but its not a very rich province, and will cost me some men. but i do gain another port (but then again, also another province that can be invaded). Im not very inclined to take the fight to the fukuyama, cause they are surrouned by allies/shogun clans.

    Before they declare war on me, i was planning on taking Bizen, but they have expanded and are also ally of Fukyama (luckily none of his allies join the fight)

    EDIT: dillema sorted. Awaji went shogun so i attacked them, and i am close now to unitying shikoku. Fukuyama got trampled by tsuwano. But no is the sueqtion what next. All nieghbours have 4+ provinces, and im not making much profit, cause those tosa rifleman are expensive. why is there such a big gap between hard and normal....
    Last edited by eXistenZ; August 11, 2012 at 06:30 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Started my campaign on hard. Managed to knock out Ozu pretty easy, with the help of naval bombardment. Declared war on marugame before i captured Iyo, so they took Awa but were heavenly weakened. Some more naval bombardments and quick reaction got me Awa and sanuki, just before fall sets in. Thanks to william willis (+2 happines and +10% replenishment for 12 turns), i could leave my settlements ungarrisoned and quickly knock out marugame.

    So now i'm on a split. Fukuyama has taken two extra provinces (including choshu) and has declared war on me. I could take Awaji province (the small island east of shikoku), but its not a very rich province, and will cost me some men. but i do gain another port (but then again, also another province that can be invaded). Im not very inclined to take the fight to the fukuyama, cause they are surrouned by allies/shogun clans.

    Before they declare war on me, i was planning on taking Bizen, but they have expanded and are also ally of Fukyama (luckily none of his allies join the fight)

    EDIT: dillema sorted. Awaji went shogun so i attacked them, and i am close now to unitying shikoku. Fukuyama got trampled by tsuwano. But no is the sueqtion what next. All nieghbours have 4+ provinces, and im not making much profit, cause those tosa rifleman are expensive. why is there such a big gap between hard and normal....

    how about the shogun clans on the lonely islands north and northwest of kyushu? (gold mine in the north most island)
    Usually not allied to anyone, just bring a decent fleet incase they got a trade or military Tiered port.

    Satsuma is a target too as they got a smith.

    for profit, inn/police station + cotton industry, trade ports and upgraded farms goes a long way. Garrison cheap units if necessary. Reserve 1 province for unit recruitment (aka cadet school + barracks chains)

    edit: didnt see your dilemma solved good luck with your campaign =)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Went for Bizen (okayama) cause they also have a smith. Got the firing range and smith (so +35 accuracy). Build up my forces, and noticed that north of me all the provinces were empty so i send a small force to capture those two.

    Im using a bit of an exploit though. Okayama has 1.5 stack in harima, close to the crossover to awaji, which im blocking with my fleet. But 1 stack (other has 4)doesnt have a general, so doesnt replenish when i bombard it. Waited untill i got my 3 armstrong gun, and took harima easily. And okayama is almost dead. Have to say this is the first tme on hard that i'm an actor, rather than reacting on the AI (we'll see how long that last)

    Satsuma is on speed, they got 10 provinces and are terrifying :p (tsu and obama have both switched allegiances). Shikoku is almost undefensed, since im only making 2k a turn. If i get invaded there, or satsuma turn on me (they refuse an alliance, and all shogun clans refuse trade), then its still pretty quick over and done

    Will continue tomorrow, cause i should be working for some exams :p

  11. #11

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Went for Bizen (okayama) cause they also have a smith. Got the firing range and smith (so +35 accuracy). Build up my forces, and noticed that north of me all the provinces were empty so i send a small force to capture those two.

    Im using a bit of an exploit though. Okayama has 1.5 stack in harima, close to the crossover to awaji, which im blocking with my fleet. But 1 stack (other has 4)doesnt have a general, so doesnt replenish when i bombard it. Waited untill i got my 3 armstrong gun, and took harima easily. And okayama is almost dead. Have to say this is the first tme on hard that i'm an actor, rather than reacting on the AI (we'll see how long that last)

    Satsuma is on speed, they got 10 provinces and are terrifying :p (tsu and obama have both switched allegiances). Shikoku is almost undefensed, since im only making 2k a turn. If i get invaded there, or satsuma turn on me (they refuse an alliance, and all shogun clans refuse trade), then its still pretty quick over and done

    Will continue tomorrow, cause i should be working for some exams :p
    ah =) good luck, might be hard to defend that position though but could be fun!
    try and get the buddhist temple province nearby? gives +15 charge to your cav
    (rpovince of izumo)

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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by zhiphius View Post
    ah =) good luck, might be hard to defend that position though but could be fun!
    try and get the buddhist temple province nearby? gives +15 charge to your cav
    (rpovince of izumo)
    Was a good idea, but i didnt do it cause i thought it would call of realm divide. Spend 2 years researching and developping, and raining armies with FV's. Does the bonus stack? does it matter whether 1 or 3 veterans train an army?

    (one thing thats hugely unfair is in RotS, on lang campaign, you only have 176 turns, 1/4 winter which halts your progression, and messes with your siege plans, in FotS you have 200+, and winter isnt that flowbreaking as in the other two campaigns.)

    its now mid 1869, and i called of realm divide by making tajima (imperial obama) revolt and capturing it. then i took tango from kanazawa. But yeah it has really kicked off now. got a fleet near kii and near wakasa to intercept naval invasions. Lack of generals is a bit annoying though. i already need two to lead those fleets (and one of them is beter than my daimyo and has 1 delusion of grandeur). If i enlist more generals there is a big chanche he'll rebel. I guess i'll have to adopt him...

    EDIT: post 5600 :p

  13. #13

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Was a good idea, but i didnt do it cause i thought it would call of realm divide. Spend 2 years researching and developping, and raining armies with FV's. Does the bonus stack? does it matter whether 1 or 3 veterans train an army?

    (one thing thats hugely unfair is in RotS, on lang campaign, you only have 176 turns, 1/4 winter which halts your progression, and messes with your siege plans, in FotS you have 200+, and winter isnt that flowbreaking as in the other two campaigns.)

    its now mid 1869, and i called of realm divide by making tajima (imperial obama) revolt and capturing it. then i took tango from kanazawa. But yeah it has really kicked off now. got a fleet near kii and near wakasa to intercept naval invasions. Lack of generals is a bit annoying though. i already need two to lead those fleets (and one of them is beter than my daimyo and has 1 delusion of grandeur). If i enlist more generals there is a big chanche he'll rebel. I guess i'll have to adopt him...

    EDIT: post 5600 :p
    ah nice going. =)

    i agree on the turn ratio in RotS, (think i downloaded a montly turn mod for that reason. 12 turns/year. which again is the reason i included a harsher attrition to winters in my own mod). RotS misjudged turns/years abit i felt. Fun game but im no fan of steamroll/blitz forced campaigns.

    As for generals, make sure your general less armies wins some battle and you get chances to promote new generals.
    ...or you could enchant enemy generals with your geisha

    foreign agents: Never tried to test the stacking effect, but from what i could see when a few of them where stuffed in a city waiting for a army while gaining XP they didnt seem to improve the speed at which units gained experience compared to having just 1 agent.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Yeah i dont like blitzing campaigns either. which is a shame for RotS cause its a fun era. Or is there a mod for it (that doesnt affect you can play MP)?

    As for now, i caused some extra revolts in obama lands, so that im sure i make my 26 provinces target. Got yamashiro (important for a continious railway), kii and yamato of them. In the mean time, if gone up north all the way up to noto. Ive got a full ironcladded fleet on the coast, bombarding the hell out of nagoaka troops :p Now on 21 provinces, and unless the AI has 20 stacks hidden away, the campaign is pretty much won. Obama is slowly pushing towards musashi, and i can easily pick off northern provinces. Just hoping the AI doesnt slip past my guard ships

  15. #15

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Yeah i dont like blitzing campaigns either. which is a shame for RotS cause its a fun era. Or is there a mod for it (that doesnt affect you can play MP)?

    As for now, i caused some extra revolts in obama lands, so that im sure i make my 26 provinces target. Got yamashiro (important for a continious railway), kii and yamato of them. In the mean time, if gone up north all the way up to noto. Ive got a full ironcladded fleet on the coast, bombarding the hell out of nagoaka troops :p Now on 21 provinces, and unless the AI has 20 stacks hidden away, the campaign is pretty much won. Obama is slowly pushing towards musashi, and i can easily pick off northern provinces. Just hoping the AI doesnt slip past my guard ships
    grats on a soon-to-be won campaign then =)

    Just keep an eye on the AI movement after you've done your turn and you'll be fine =)

    as for RotS: There's a few mod for the campaign. Atleast 2 or 3 that extends the victory condition year and 1 that changes it to 12 turns per year (which extends the campaign in itself enough).
    All mods affect MP (well nearly all), aslong as your partner has the mods too you're fine.
    Thumb rule for mods is to either have both install the same, or uninstall them during coop playing.
    Avatar conquest dont like mods at all.

    to find the mods, just check the mod forum. Should be in the gameplay and tweaks section. The comprehensive list of released mods should list them too (i suggest you go over that list, some cool mods there)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    Thanks, but before i check it out, im gonna get some tips from frogbeastegg and try them. Working with mods is always fiddly work, so before i do it i wanna check if i can improve my game in vanilla

  17. #17

    Default Re: [FotS]Tosa tips

    AMAZING TOSA STRATEGY

    Ok, In all fairness I must give my friend Neocropolis partial credit for this strategy. I tried many different ways but this is very very powerful and not too hard to do.

    1. build Line infantry and consolidate army outside castle.
    2. 2nd turn build 3 more Line infantry.
    3. 3rd turn move all units together to form large army. Move army on road west toward enemy. Move Geisha on road north to keep eye on enemy army.Build 2 spear units to suppress rebelion. Move navy in bombard range of his castle.
    4. By the time you get to his castle you may or may not of killed his small army. Either way atack and LOOT his castle. (dont worry about honor you will make up for that later.)
    5. Move all units toward his dock that you just captured. Offer military access to clan to your east for 3000.sail ships into newly captured dock.DO NOT REPAIR THIS CASTLE AS YOU ARE GOING TO ABANDON IT.
    6. Merge all units into ships waiting for them. Units will have replenished and be looking pretty good at this point.
    7. Sail all units toward Hyuga(province just NE of Satsuma) Declare war by landing CLOSE to capital.
    8. Attack and LOOT the castle. After that repair castle and offer military acces and trade to both clans touching your new province EXCEPT SATSUMA. You will have about 22-30 k at this point from the 2 lootings and the military access you have sold. Keep men outside castle as we want to FORCE A REBELLION. Build rifle units. Wen rebels appear attack and kill them.After you killed rebels build 5-6 spear units to guard that province and keep the peace. Hang out outside your castle again to FORCE ANOTHER REBELLION. After killing this rebellion you will have VERY experienced troops and a VERY peaceful populatin that the 5-6 spear units will keep under control. Move toward Satsumas capital.
    9. Take Satsumas capital and kill his army if it gets in the way. LOOT his capital or DONT its up to you. His remaining province will accept peace and become your vassal if you have killed his army.(GAIN 1 HONOR).Repair Satuma capital as it will be your new best friend.
    10.Now your destiny is your to take, You can build gunsmith and get UNSTOPABLE TOSA RIFLES and enjoy
    .
    9.

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