View Poll Results: Which Irish faction should be the main one?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kingdom of 'Neill

    36 63.16%
  • Kingdomf of Desmond

    17 29.82%
  • Other Irish faction

    4 7.02%
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 92

Thread: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

  1. #21
    Libertus
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by David93 View Post
    Losing is not really an achivement in all honesty, bringing edward the bruce in and then swearing fealty to a foriegn king isnt really an achievement either. As you said 16th century is past out time frame of the early campaign.
    Yes, but at the mods start date Brian hasnt lost yet and the O'Neills are very much in the ascendancy. Your also underestimating the importance of being elected High King by two of the most powerful pre-norman dynasties (the o'brians and the o'connors)

    The Mac Carthy gains didnt last that long either, outside their core territory, and they too supported Edward, at least nominally if not actually in the field.
    Last edited by Tigernams; November 06, 2011 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #22
    David93's Avatar Shiny
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    2,738
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigernams View Post
    Yes, but at the mods start date Brian hasnt lost yet and the O'Neills are very much in the ascendancy. Your also underestimating the importance of being elected High King by two of the most powerful pre-norman dynasties (the o'brians and the o'connors)
    Can you give me a source on that?
    but as you said at the start of the mod Brians not "high king" iirc hes not leader of the O'Neills either, although im not sure on that.
    The Mac Carthy gains didnt last that long either, outside their core territory, and they too supported Edward, at least nominally if not actually in the field.
    But the Mac Carthys did indeed maintain gains after there conquests.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Mac William de Burgo accompanied by a great army of foreigners and Gaedhil invaded Desmumu, and Cormac Mac Carthaigh was slain by them after a victory of prowess and valour. For he himself unaided, slew Gerald Roche,76 a great and noble knight, and another good squire, and no others of the Desmumu fell save he, although many of the (enemy) army were slain. Nevertheless, some of the Clann Charthaigh gave hostages to Mac William and he left the country.
    The account in the Annals of Loch C differs slightly from the above:
    A.D. 1262. A hosting by Mac William Burk and the foreigners of Erin to Desmumha to attack Mac Carthaigh, until they reached the Mangartach of Loch Lin, where Gerald Roche was slain by Mac Carthaigh; and it was said that he was the third best baron in Ireland. And this was the joy with sorrow to Desmumha, for the son of Domhnall Got Mac Carthaigh, i.e. Cormac, son of Domhnall, was slain on that same day; and the foreigners and the Gaedhil suffered great losses on that day around the Mangartach.77
    From these accounts it would seem that while Cormac failed to match Finghin's exploits, the Normans gained little advantage either. It is significant that references to attacks on Desmond scarcely occur at all after 1262.78 It is to this period that Hanmer's often-quoted account refers:79
    The Carties plaied the Divells in Desmond, where they burned, spoiled, preyed, and slue many an innocent; they became so strong, and prevailed so mightily that for the space (so it is reported) of twelve yeeres the Desmonds durst not but plow in ground in his owne country.
    Attempts at subduing the Mac Carthys were of little avail. James de Audley (justiciar from 1270 to 1272) led an expedition against Irish rebels in Desmond86; no results were announced. The Annals of Innisfallen (A.D. 1271) tell us: "A hosting by the foreigners of Ireland into Desmumu to Dn na mBarc, and they turned back from there without doing any further damage."

    In 1280 the Mac Carthys of Carbery (then headed by Domhnall g son of Domhnall Mael) made peace with the main branch of the family, whose king was Domhnall Ruadh mac Carthy.87 They then united to drive out the foreigner. Killorglin was burned and its castle razed. 'And great forays were made there and people slain.' The Normans then evacuated Dunloe, which was promptly burned

    Still Domhnall g (Cairbreach) remained a thorn in the side of the Norman interests. In 1295 he was plundering as far east as Kinalea, having already burned Macloneigh.90 Two years later, he slew John de Courcy, probably to avenge his uncle's death at the hands of Miles de Courcy. When Hubert de Courcy tried to bring Domhnall to justice, the sheriff reported that Domhnall would not submit to justice, and a few months later, that he 'was among the Irish in waste land where no sergeant or bailiff of the king dared to go to attack him.'
    this shows that even over 30 years later the Mac Carthys are still fighting and defeating the normans.

    The Orcs of Gundabad Erin go Bragh FROGS

    When I came back to Dublin I was court marshaled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence"
    Brendan Behan
    The Irish won an Empire
    The Scots ran an Empire
    The English lost an Empire

    "When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, 'Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
    - Quentin Crisp

    There is one weapon that the British cannot take away from us: we can ignore them.
    - Michael Collins

    They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken.
    - Bobby Sands

  3. #23
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    May I ask, what's the problem with adding both kingdoms?

    It would certainly make things more interesting.

    Also, I'm getting a "You may not vote on this poll".

    Are there restrictions on who gets to vote?

  4. #24
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by BegottenMeridian View Post
    May I ask, what's the problem with adding both kingdoms?

    It would certainly make things more interesting.

    Also, I'm getting a "You may not vote on this poll".

    Are there restrictions on who gets to vote?
    No worries, both factions will be in Britannia but we have some limitation for the Grand Campaign, to limit the amount the script will take in term of lag and size.

  5. #25
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Polycarpe View Post
    No worries, both factions will be in Britannia but we have some limitation for the Grand Campaign, to limit the amount the script will take in term of lag and size.
    Oh ok. Sorry I just noticed you had already said that this was about the Grand Campaign in your first post.

    Who was the starting king for Ireland in the Kingdoms: Britannia Campaign?
    It says on the internet that it was Brian O'Conner, but I was almost sure it was Brian O' Neill?

  6. #26
    SonofPeverel's Avatar GLORY TOTHE BROTHERHOOD
    Moderator Emeritus Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,185
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by BegottenMeridian View Post
    May I ask, what's the problem with adding both kingdoms?

    It would certainly make things more interesting.

    Also, I'm getting a "You may not vote on this poll".

    Are there restrictions on who gets to vote?
    Yes, you have to have 25 posts to vote in polls. http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/TWC:FAQ#Post_Count_Ranks

    What is your vote any ill add it?
    Last edited by SonofPeverel; November 07, 2011 at 09:28 AM.

    HOUSE OF HADER

  7. #27
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofPeverel View Post
    Yes, you have to have 25 posts to vote in polls. http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/TWC:FAQ#Post_Count_Ranks

    What is your vote any ill add it?
    I've decided not to vote just yet anyway. Tigernams and David93 both make convincing arguments. Though I'd be much more interested in playing as the Kingdom of Desmond in the Britannia Campaign I wouldn't really mind who I'd play as in the Grand Campaign.

    My own interest in playing as the Kingdom of Desmond from Munster comes from the fact that I come from Munster. So I'd be very happy playing as these guys in both campaigns. But if I were to play as the Kingdom of Desmond in the Britannia Campaign I would still enjoy playing as the U Nills in the Grand Campaign for variety.

    My own argument for picking a dominating Irish faction would be based on who would be more likely to not just dominate Ireland but the rest of Western Europe also.

    Unfortunately I'm not a historian or expert in such matters.

  8. #28
    Discens
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    91
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    this may sound silly but someone should so do a submod with Cuchulainn or irish hurl units(not historically accurate but awesome) and i also think there should be several irish factions as Ui neill was only dominant in the north around Tir Eoghain (Tyrone in irish which means land of Ui neill) plus i think u should include O'Loingsigh as they were the dominant clan of Gallimh and im a O'Loingsigh (lynch)
    Last edited by LYNCHY; November 07, 2011 at 12:40 PM.

  9. #29
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Found an interesting article that could potentially influence people's decision on the matter: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...irish_men.html

  10. #30
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Gaming Staff Tribune
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,809
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    FYO guys, the northern Ireland kingdom were allied by marrige with what seems to be Lord of Islay, which may be our Hiberno-Norse faction.
    Quote Originally Posted by BegottenMeridian View Post
    Found an interesting article that could potentially influence people's decision on the matter: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...irish_men.html
    deam, then he seem to knock Somerled of the throne then who have 500 000. Looks like these guys were quite busy .

    ~Wille
    Featured links:
    Gaming

    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsgv2QHkT2ljEixyulzOnUQ
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLk0vqad8dXss0QGwCHTRxg
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9U_UPJLasfZYZ0icNI0vBg
    http://www.youtube.com/user/AveunUK?feature=watch

    Philosophy
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRiQGCHGjDLT9FQXFW0I3A
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp0k3OKqfkPW0HdRLA8JWZg
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc_xdkOBgSYLmXTn-VSQ4uA

    History
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pgQfOXRsp4UKrI8q0zjXQ






    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.












    Tierd of playing on your own? Send me a PM when I'm online.

    I have mic.






  11. #31
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by LYNCHY View Post
    this may sound silly but someone should so do a submod with Cuchulainn or irish hurl units(not historically accurate but awesome) and i also think there should be several irish factions as Ui neill was only dominant in the north around Tir Eoghain (Tyrone in irish which means land of Ui neill) plus i think u should include O'Loingsigh as they were the dominant clan of Gallimh and im a O'Loingsigh (lynch)
    Perhaps but this submod will be done by fans, several of our features and script are linked to the faction. The best will be to add all the dynasties but unfortunately we have to deal with the game's engine limitation.; the more factions we add in, the more work as well turn lag will increase.

    But I totally forgot, I could post our upcoming Irish roster perhaps.

  12. #32
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Polycarpe View Post
    But I totally forgot, I could post our upcoming Irish roster perhaps.
    PLEASE!!!

  13. #33
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by BegottenMeridian View Post
    PLEASE!!!
    Will upload you shortly.

    Also, from the poll, we will go for the Kingdom of U'Neill. Thank you for participating. Also to point out, we will add both U'Neill and Desmond in Britannia Campaign.

    So for now, we will requires the family tree of both kingdoms, also if you can provide secondary/rival family tree within these kingdoms, this will really help us, we will add more than one family tree in each campaign.
    Last edited by Polycarpe; November 11, 2011 at 01:03 PM.

  14. #34
    Irish00Barbarian's Avatar Sukauto
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    52
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    my point is in 1260 and they would not have been called O'Neill because they would not have spoken english
    let alone be called O'Neill which is the Anglicised version of there name

    "It lights the dark of this prison cell, It thunders forth its might, It is 'the undauntable thought', my friend, That thought that says 'I'm right!" -Bobby sands

  15. #35
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish00Barbarian View Post
    my point is in 1260 and they would not have been called O'Neill because they would not have spoken english
    let alone be called O'Neill which is the Anglicised version of there name
    I haven't much information about their language, probably a Irish Gaelic, however what was their native name? We will use both the Anglicised and the native name for each faction.

    Once I will have time, I will post the Irish roster and I will want you to tell me your opinion regarding it.

  16. #36
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Polycarpe View Post
    I haven't much information about their language, probably a Irish Gaelic, however what was their native name? We will use both the Anglicised and the native name for each faction.

    Once I will have time, I will post the Irish roster and I will want you to tell me your opinion regarding it.
    The main anglicised part of the name O'Neill is the O' part. This came from the Irish spelling . The English had mistaken the accent for an apostrophe. Therefore the name Neill is probably a valid Irish surname from that time. However, there was probably no certainty among the Irish at the time that there was only one version of this name. The names Neill/ Nill/Ua Nill/U Nill may all be valid variants of the surname at the time.

    I'm not sure though how well this holds in terms of referring to the whole clan at the time.

    Someone may need to look up the Ulster Annals to be sure of this.

    I may do that myself if I get around to it

  17. #37
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Alright, here's the roster (PDF file attached below), tell me what do you think.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  18. #38
    BegottenMeridian's Avatar Kabe difendā
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Galway, Ireland
    Posts
    38
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Polycarpe View Post
    Alright, here's the roster (PDF file attached below), tell me what do you think.
    Sounds pretty good to me.

    What are your main resources of research?

  19. #39
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    Quote Originally Posted by BegottenMeridian View Post
    Sounds pretty good to me.

    What are your main resources of research?
    Most of those links, decent info imo.

    http://fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba164.html
    http://fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba144.html
    Osprey publishing Galloglass 12501600

  20. #40
    Princeps Prior
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,489
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of 'Neill or Kingdom of Desmond

    I'll go with the Ua Neills on this. Im not sure if the Kingdom of Desmond lasted as long, but to my understanding, the dynasty of the Ua Neills fought the English up to the very end of the Irish Wars in the 1600s, so they are definately the guys to go with

    Im not sure the plans or limitations of this mod(Just found out about from the Stainless Steel board, my hobby is whining about Ireland...), but I'd include both, and have a script to make the one who wins rule the Kingdom of Ireland and title the faction leader as the High King, or Ard Ri

    Kinda ahistorical, but come on, you know you want the High King to run down everyone!

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •