Most balanced military of good units?

[Chad29]

Most factions have good units, either more in the early game, or the late game. There's usually something good to say about every faction, even if those few good units doesn't make everyone happy with the faction.

I have been interested in trying to find a faction that has good units all around. Not the best in every field, because I don't think that's possible without cheating, but having at least a couple good units in every field: Melee, missile, cavalry, and artillery.

I settled on France, but I'd like some other opinions. Does everyone agree that, aside from them not having musketeers, the mortar, and a better missile unit than peasants in the early game that they do have the most balanced roster all around? Those are my nitpicks, as well as wishing one of their good late game archers could plant stakes instead of both using fire, to set them apart better.

It's a good faction, even if it can have difficulty in the early game, but does it really have the best rounded out roster? Is there a better one that has good units in every field?

[Aeratus]

France has a well rounded roster and a huge abundance of good units, even though none of its units are the best in a particular field (for example, they only have the generic DCK infantry, and the Lancer is slightly worse than the Polish Guard and eastern elite cavalry).

Turks have a well rounded late roster in terms of elite units (Hashashim, Janissary Musketeer, and Qapukulu), but their early and midgame roster is quite limited.

[PrestigeX]

France definantly has the best 'all round' roster.

they have everything anyone else has, in abundance - chiv knights, noble knights, lancers --
tourney fields -

you can train a huge horde of great heavy cav -- compared with most other catholic factions who can muster fewer to choose from per turn. With most other factions, you train up 3-4 chiv knights (or equivalent) you then have to wait many turns for more top tier cav -- france, you can just switch to noble, or lancer,

their mounted archers are awesome too -- they have a high quality, armored, H.A. too
pikes
solid infantry
good elite foot archers

[Silverheart]

Venice has the best, and most balanced, unit roster.
Mounted: Feudal Knights, Men-at-Arms - not superior, but very capable, well trained and heavily equipped.
Melee: Venetian Heavy Infantry, Dismounted Feudal Knights, Italian Militiamen, Halberds - well equipped, well trained, steady and reliable, venetian infantrymen are equal or superior to any other factions´ (except Hashashims)
Missile: Pavise Crossbow Militia, Venetian Archers, Musketeers - they lack Horse Archers, but make up for it with these heavily equipped, versatile and long-range foot archers.
Artillery: Mortars, Monster Rocket Launchers and Culverins - they have most of the best artillery pieces, as simple as that.
(also, their Galleasses are superior to any pre-Carrack ship)

France has indeed a great roster, but I would still put them at third place (what with England having great infantry, awesome archers, good artillery and capable cavalry)
France gets bonus points for their Horse archers and city-trained Scots Guard,
but they are lacking in good bowmen (apart from the Scots Guard), good gunmen and mortars - this drags down their rating for me.

The Holy Roman empire comes at fourth place, followed by Russia on fifth.

[Arcathius of Pontus]

late Turks of course

Janissary Archers (Attribute; stakes)
Janissary Musketeers (long range and very good vs armour)
Janissary Heavy Infantry (halberd inf)
Qapukulu (one of the best Cavalry units in game)
Monster Bombard (for siege)

also you can use Naffatuns, Hashashins, Ottoman Infantry etc.

[Silverheart]

The Turks have too little good infantry.
Sure, the Hashashim are the best infantry in the entire game, but they are neither numerous nor easy to recruit. Also, there´s even a chance you never gain access to them (if you, for example, only construct chapter houses from the Merchants guild)
And apart from them, turkish footmen are almost only light infantry or missile troops.
Also, the best artillery pieces are the ones that are useful for both siege and field battles - such as the Culverin or the Mortar. The Monster Bombard, while unmatched at crushing defences from a safe distance, is useless in all other kinds of battle situations.

So the Turks are good - very good - but their unit roster is not the most balanced in the game.

[Chad29]

The Turks definitely have some good units, but their foot melee is lacking and the monster bombard is a bit overkill. I agree with Silverheart that while it's wall crushing ability is unmatched, it's kind of dead weight in non siege battles because the rate of fire is so low. And of course you will have to get it from point A to point B, so regular field battles can happen.

That said, I think the Turks are my favorite Muslim faction. Egyptians get their axemen, and the Moors get their camels, though.

I haven't done Venice much, but I'll try it out. I've played Hungary, so I have experience being sandwiched between the HRE and Byzies.

[=Bright=]

In late game Russia has one of the best rosters. Cossack musketeers are probably the best musketeers in the game (regarding thier statistics), Dvor horse archers are more or less unmatchable, Tsar's guard is among the best heavy cavarly, Dismounted Dvors are strong in both missile and melee, and they can field the best artillery. They only lack in infantry a bit.

[Surgeon]

The Italian factions generally have good units throughout the game. They have all the good European units like DFK, spearmen and heavy cavalry but also get decent to excellent missile troops and some late game heavy infantry and even Mounted Crossbowmen. France probably has one of the best "elite" rosters, except ironically their best cavalry doesn't stand up to others despite their description

[Chad29]

The only problem I've had with lancers going up against other cavalry is some eastern heavy cavalry with armor piercing secondary weapons instead of swords. The description is best cavalry in the WEST, after all. Of course there is the quick missile cavalry with armor piercing shots that are very annoying to anything without fast movement or better than normal stamina, but that applies to everything.

[FootSoldier]

Hmm ... for all round best balanced throughout the game I'd agree with France. Second I would place the HRE. Third equal Venice and Turkey.

Turkey is second, if you include Hashashim. (I find the Assassins Guild easy to get - just assassinate a lot, starting with rebel captains - and with the HQ you get 2 experience for new Hashashim. I don't like to use them, though - they're a fantasy unit ... though you could say that of DFK). Even without the Hashashim, the Ottoman Infantry are an excellent unit, who melee effectively. They do lack heavy infantry - the JHI are disappointing, and seem to suffer from the 2 handed bug.

In my tests (Custom Battle, Grassy Plain, 1 on 1, both units charge) the Hashashim are beaten by 2 heavy infantry units: Dis Chiv Knights and Venetian Heavy Infantry. Everything else is beaten, some narrowly (DFK) and some easily - the 2 handers, like Varangian Guard, and Dis French Nobles, are minced. One exception there - the JHI, curiously, make a close fight of it. Obviously this isn't completely reliable, and I do blow the general's horn, and if the general is killed that makes quite a difference.

The phase of the game makes a difference. Poland is very strong at the end, with the Dis Polish Knights suddenly adding real punch to the heavy infantry, and the heavy cavalry unmatched. They're short of decent missiles though - I'm still using Merc Xbows and Merc Pavise Xbows with them at the end.

Sicily is strong in the early game. Venice is strong.

I've most enjoyed playing the Turks (the Janissary Musketeers have better melee stats than the Cossack Musketeers, though both seem to have the same effectiveness with muskets). It's such a shame the 2 handed bug affects so many infantry types. It's hard to tell the balance the developers intended. The JHI aren't that good - will lose to DFK 1 on 1 in my tests. In M1TW they were the best infantry in the game, though much harder to get.

I like the late Russians too. The cavalry (Tsar's Guard, Dvor and Cossacks) are battle winners, but the infantry isn't strong enough - again, the Berdiche Axemen seem to suffer from the 2 handed bug.

[Chad29]

I think those two handers are meant to be flankers more than anything else. If their attacks are slow, but their weapons are effective against armor, they're likely meant as flankers.

I've never played HRE, though the computer normally does well because it gets along with pretty much everyone except Poland.

[Aeratus]

In vanilla, two handers are worse than one handers in essentially everything, even when fighting against armor, and in flanking. In Kingdoms, two handers are good in frontal charge (due to the revised charge bonus), and are more balanced overall, but still poor at flanking because most two-hander units (like Gotland footmen) have slow speed compared.

[Chad29]

I suppose that includes dismounted English/Portugese/Noble knights?

[Surgeon]

2-handed axes (not swords and halberds, mind) are generally badly balanced as a side effect of fixing the shield bug back in the day. I'd really recommend using a mod which revamps unit stats in vanilla to what it is in Kingdoms, the units are rebalanced but unfortunately CA forwent patching the vanilla game for some reason.

[Leaf-Fan-Forever]

2-handed axes (not swords and halberds, mind) are generally badly balanced as a side effect of fixing the shield bug back in the day. I'd really recommend using a mod which revamps unit stats in vanilla to what it is in Kingdoms, the units are rebalanced but unfortunately CA forwent patching the vanilla game for some reason.

Agreed. The mods I have played all make twohanders very nice shock troops. Probably the way they were supposed to be.....

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

In Late Game I think Portugal has the best all around roster (or at least one of the very best).

[Chad29]

I've played portugal quite a bit, and gunpoweder does give it some missile variety, but I have to choose between the arquebusiers that get better stats, and the musketeers that get better range. It's a tough choice because range is most important for a missile unit.

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

Not just the gunpowder, I mean in the late game you have access to all the roster, including the javelins and jinetes, the conquistadores (altough only in the americas) and of course the god-like aventuros. And it also has, along with spain, the best navy.

[Chad29]

Yes they do have good variety in everything but missile units pre gunpowder. It's just that beforegunpowder the only good missile unit they get is pavise crossbowmen. Jinetes and javelinmen too if you don't just count them as cavalry and melee due to the building chains they're trained in.