For those with problems with the Magyars...

**Heathen Storm** · October 28, 2011, 12:42 AM

I know how much people have been complaining about the stats for the Magyars and how impossible it is to defeat them in battle. Well, I humbly invite you to test out my submod. Here is the link for you to try! I have reduced the stats in accordance to a "Real Combat" style. You'll find they are easier, but still very tough. I could use your feedback

**Csatádi** · November 04, 2011, 05:01 AM

Wrong way.

We set them these stats to imitate the medieval reality. It is easier to bribe than fight them.

**Xoxoman** · November 05, 2011, 11:57 AM

But then I have a historical question; how could the Eastern Franks beat the Magyars at the battle of Lechfeld?

**Heathen Storm** · November 05, 2011, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Csatádi

Wrong way.

We set them these stats to imitate the medieval reality. It is easier to bribe than fight them.

It is still extremely hard to fight them. I've not made it easy

The only way to really win against the magyars is either spam them with cavalry (which is horribly un-historical) or ambush them like the battle of lechfield as Xoxoman said. In a battle of 2000 eastern franks vs. 700 Magyars, 400 of my men were killed while i killed 300 of theirs.

**k/t** · November 05, 2011, 05:55 PM

Maybe you made them overpowered because you and danova are both Hungarian.

Ambushing doesn't work very well in this game, so the best solution is a mod-wide implementation of RR/RC. Even if ambushing did work, RR/RC would still be a great idea.

**danova** · November 05, 2011, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by k/t

Maybe you made them overpowered because you and danova are both Hungarian.

Ambushing doesn't work very well in this game, so the best solution is a mod-wide implementation of RR/RC. Even if ambushing did work, RR/RC would still be a great idea.

Maybe not! Read after it ...
.

**Heathen Storm** · November 06, 2011, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

Maybe you made them overpowered because you and danova are both Hungarian.

Ambushing doesn't work very well in this game, so the best solution is a mod-wide implementation of RR/RC. Even if ambushing did work, RR/RC would still be a great idea.

I don't think that's very fair to say mate. Yes Danova and Csatadi are both Hungarian but that doesn't mean that they gave the magyars superpowers. In history the Magyars raided completely unchecked across the Frankish realm for hundreds of years before being relatively stopped at the battle of Lechfield. Their horse archery was very destructive to the Franks, who's main army was made up of Noblemen made into heavy cavalry and very light levies with nothing in between. So I understand Danova and Csatadi's reasoning for making them so high.... But they could have been slightly lower to be at least a bit closer to a foot archer's attack power.

**Xoxoman** · November 06, 2011, 09:42 AM

It is only a bit hard for the East-Franks to be pwn'ed from the Magyar side and the Danish side.

**Csatádi** · November 07, 2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Heathen Storm

It is still extremely hard to fight them. I've not made it easy

The only way to really win against the magyars is either spam them with cavalry (which is horribly un-historical) or ambush them like the battle of lechfield as Xoxoman said. In a battle of 2000 eastern franks vs. 700 Magyars, 400 of my men were killed while i killed 300 of theirs.

If it's hard than it's OK.
Much Frank cavalry is not unhistorical. Much heavy cavalry is because they had mostly light cavalry.
Till the time of Lechfeld the Saxons organized their army well. They even bought peace to get time for it. An ambush wouldn't have been enough.

**Xoxoman** · November 08, 2011, 05:54 AM

Maybe a idea, in the Americas campaign there is a script if you capture so much soldiers you get a reform, maybe this is possible with the East-Franks?

**Cincinatus** · December 26, 2011, 01:56 AM

I think the Magyars may need some levy footmen or mercs. They need something to make them a bit of a challenge on campaign. They maybe hard to beat in battle but they are too easy to watch them do little or nothing on the campaign map. When they get one settlement they do not seem to try to raid or seige any others. And if they lose that settlement, I do not see them try to get another. Can that be fixed or at least improved? Even if not with levy troops or mercs? Also, the faction heir is called a prince as well as the leader, is there some way to adjust that a tad? Some way to differentiate the two roles a hair?

**shikaka** · December 26, 2011, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinatus

And if they lose that settlement, I do not see them try to get another. Can that be fixed or at least improved?

I see the same, but I think that is OK. They (we

) never tried to get a foothold in the area, just some looting here or there...

**Cincinatus** · January 22, 2012, 08:34 PM

I have a solution to one of the issues for the Magyars. Why not make it with a raider event script like that was done for the Vikings, that way they are active and a raiding threat through out the game instead of hovering uselessly around a settlement or two or capturing one then forgetting to do anything else threatening. Also, I would advise adding at least one light infantry unit as something they can recruit or have for some units so they actually do raid now and then. Even if they only raid one or two settlements with no infantry they tend to mess up sacking or raiding any settlements. Plus there is still some kind of weird bug where you double click on a Magyar controlled settlement you CTD.

From above:
I see the same, but I think that is OK. They (we ) never tried to get a foothold in the area, just some looting here or there..

--yes true, but if the Magyar faction is too inactive then their purpose in the mod seems trivial at best. I still think they need some balancing to make them even a real raid threat and make them at least somewhat active with in the game.

One more thing, having both the leader and faction heir named prince no matter who it is or what generation or if they are even brothers or not also seems a tad strange.

To the arguments above about hungarians and rc/rr:
While RC/RR implementation might actually be a cool idea to have, I also do not feel that Danova or Csastadi overpower Magyars per say. Sure the units are a little strong, and a tad over (as I think their advantages were mostly missile attacks and with defenses and more importantly melee so high this seems a bit unrealistic), I do not feel they overall made Magyar a superpower. Magyars, even if they have the best or super units, have no infantry or ability to have any, though some rudimentary light infantry would not be unwelcome. This gives them a huge disadvantage for raiding and holding settlements. Plus in practice, Magyars rarely take more than one settlement or even recapture a settlement if lost or take a new one if lost. Often their armies wonder in the woods aimlessly, especially after taking just one settlement. This makes them arguably the weakest faction in the game. They start out with no settlements and struggle to get or keep one. And to top that all off they start with these stats well into the game after most every other faction has had time to develop strong economies and armies.

Another note, in other mods or even vanilla ones, mongol and hun horse archers usually also have very low defenses and yet still do well to dominate the battle field so having those stats boosted is really unnecessary. I think the mongols usually have slightly higher defense and the huns usually have slightly higher melee attack in mods. I would like to suggest, as the Magyars have 3 horse units, make one the melee it with less defense and one with the defense it is at and lower melee. They really could use some differences anyway. I would lean toward making the Magyar horse archers high melee and low defense and the other horsemen low melee and high defense (with mostly skill perhaps).