Last edited by Ishan; November 18, 2011 at 09:22 AM. Reason: off-topic
Well, Barry Strauss reports in one of his books that Xerxes excited the spirits of the persians with a declamation that goes like this (more or less):"With the bow I'm very good, both on horse and on foot: I'm a good archer. With the spear I'm very good, both on horse and on foot: I'm a good lancer. I'm good in riding, I'm a good cavalrymen."
Moreover, we know that Cyrus was wounded to death by an arrow during an expedition against the Scythians...
I guess these are all proof that demonstrate that a Persian leader was a good warrior and it happened to them to fight if there was the necessity. I guess they behave in a similar way to what Julius Caesar did centuries later: he was a commander, he leaded his men by giving them orders, but often it happened to him to fight in the first line (even though this was not the roman way of warfare for a commander).
^The thing of Darius (iirc it was Darius, not Xerxes. Could be that the statement is disputed) saying "as an bowman, I am a good bowman etc etc" is also a loading screen quote in the RoPIII alpha-soon-to-be-beta
Did Cyrus march against the Scythians? I thought that was Darius...
How narrow is the gap you're thinking about? A metre? Just because it was a chokepoint doesn't mean that only one man at a time could go through the place.Dude, you just physically can't kill more than a few dozen guys in an hour in such a narrow place.
@Cinus: Just because he said he was good with the bow & at riding doesn't mean he was capable of succesfuly fighting in the frontline. Probably the Achaemenid generals got some experience from hunting and whatnot, but I can't really see them fighting in the frontlines. But who knows!
Both did, iirc. Cyrus was killed fighting them and Darius subdued them.Did Cyrus march against the Scythians? I thought that was Darius.
According to Wikipedia Cyrus died in a battle against the Messagatea, people from Khwarezm related to the Scyths. Darius did subdue the Scythians, but never conquered them. He turned back with his troops before too many of them would die of fatigue and hunger. The steppes aren't really good at providing a whole army, I suppose! Anyway, seems you were pretty much right (of course )
Darius failed to subjugate the Scythians in what is now Romania/Ukraine and his army only escaped b/c the loyal Ionians didn't destroy the bridge over the Danube (the traitor Miltiades wanted to destroy it to leave them stranded)
The term "Scythians" is confusing, as the Greeks use it as a name for both the tribes living around the Black sea *as well as* the larger "umbrella" of tribes those guys (and the Mazaka) belonged to (as can be seen in the name the Persians gave to both tribes - Saka Tigrakhauda and Saka Paradaya).Messagatea, people from Khwarezm related to the Scyths
Actually, by Herodotus' time "Σκύθαι" was only applied to a Saka kingdom centered around the Black sea, the Paradraya. All other Iranian nomads were called "Σακαι".
It was a Roman practice to call everyone "Scythian".
^The translation is what matters, as "Sakai" as also translated to Scythians in everything you can find on the internet.
^Not for the poor people surfing the net trying to figure out what is going on it ain't.
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well I have heard that thermopeal was so narrow that only one chariot at a time can pass thrue it (two chariots would be able to pass at the same time)
true but how can we define the word good worrior then when darius says that "I'm a good spearmen both on horse back and on foot ect" that means that the guy got some skills , so was cyrus and other kings of persia cuz as you know all persian nobles served in the arastibara ranks (or kara arastibara) so darius like any other persian noble served in the arastibara and was given hard and though training ... IIRC I have posted a link in this forum from there you can get informations about persian nobles training ,@Cinus: Just because he said he was good with the bow & at riding doesn't mean he was capable of succesfuly fighting in the frontline. Probably the Achaemenid generals got some experience from hunting and whatnot, but I can't really see them fighting in the frontlines. But who knows!
I belive that you're talking about darius but beside that nice post I like it
They likely had a few competent-to excellent generals,(you can't keep an empire that size together if everyone is terrible at what they do) but its was a freaking huge empire, and you had the king commanding personally in important battles. So its likely they served on the distant borders and didn't fight battles that made it into the records, or they ended up serving under people, rather than commanding armies themselves.
Please rep me for my posts, not for the fact that i have a Pony as an Avatar.
When talking about Persian culture or military ways. I don't take into consideration Greek sources. They are extremely biased and to be honest(racist).
Persian commanders used their intelligence like every other commander on the battle field. Roman, Chinese, etc.
Persians traditionally are horsed based armies with of course infantry. Unfortunately many ancient sources do not talk about the mentality of the Commanders. Usually the sources talk about the sheer size of the Persian army and that the numbers will achieve the victory. Which is never true
Cyrus the Great was a brilliant battle field commander and I will use the Battle of Opis as an example.
He completely routed the Babylonian army and they were never able to resist the Persian Army again. Also interesting about this battle is the sources that tell us about it. The ancient Greek sources do not even mention this historic and epic battle. But yet Persian and Babylonian sources do mention it in some what good detail. Why did the Greeks not mention it?(The answer is, I have no idea) could be biased could not be
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It helped that the Babylonian Empire at that time was not in a particularly stable state. Especially due to the strange behavior of Nabonidus compared to his predecessors (leaving Belshazzar as regent while going to Taymah in Arabia and following the god Nannar/Sin in an almost henotheistic fashion).