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Thread: The Third Crusade

  1. #1

    Default The Third Crusade

    Is it not represented in the mod? No sign of Phillip or Richard and I have just hit 1200 so I definitly won't be seeing them now.

  2. #2
    wudang_clown's Avatar Fire Is Inspirational
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Crusades are random in BC, so certain conditions have to be met for a crusade to happen.

    Under the patronage of m_1512

  3. #3
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    If you "build" several of the requests to the Papacy, and aren't winning decisively everywhere, I find that they almost always occur. But only the 4th Crusade is scripted to happen to matter what.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Ah I see, it's a shame the Third Crusade isn't scripted in aswell. It is, after all, one of the most famous.

  5. #5
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Yes, it is a shame. But to be scripted, you would also need a script which took Jerusalem from the Crusaders and planted an imposing stack with Salahudin outside Acre or the like... otherwise the reasons for the 3rd Crusade are not there.

    Whereas the 4th was largely independent of factors in the Holy Land, long story short.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    I see what you mean but I disagree. The Audita Tremendi talked about "misfortunes...recently fallen upon Jerusalem and the Holy Land" some historians think the fall of Jerusalem hadn't even reached Europe when it was issued. It actually focussed mainly on the loss of the True Cross and the defeat at Hattin.

    So maybe one crushing defeat and/or losing the great cross you start with could bring the Third Crusade? I am no modder but that sounds much easier to script.

  7. #7
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    I do like that idea. At least some repercussion for losing the true cross is good. I also think having it should impart much more vigor to those nearby it too though (All those maniacs needed was some old javelin a guy told them was the Holy Lance and they ran out, starved and crazed to attack Kerboga's enormous army right after being on the verge of complete collapse in 1098).

    But esentially, the right machanic is in place already: if the KoJ is in trouble (and you have thought to call for help, ie building the papacy thing) the 3rd Crusade comes. In about 8 games as the KoJ I think it has happened about 5 times, pretty much every time I needed the aid. Once while I was actually in no danger whatsoever, and had been on a huge winning streak, and wasn't even at war with the Ayyubids.

    I think the parameters could be looser though, afterall, just owning the requisite cities (Jerusalem, Acre, Jaffa, etc) really wasn't enough for people like Richard the Lionheart. A crusade could easily be undertaken without suffering a major loss, just to expand for the sake of expanding.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    IMHO, loss of the part of the True Cross can not be a pretext for a crusade, but the loss of Jerusalem or several important lands, yes. Part of the True Cross can be redeemed in the end, not starting wars. But to buy a Jerusalem - it's much harder

    This is my personal desire. I would like to see all the Crusades armies (which not directly related to the KoJ) as a new emergent faction, which has an alliance with KoJ. Because their leaders often do not recognize the supremacy of the King of Jerusalem in the Crusades, and generally had their own vested interests in the Holy Land.
    Last edited by Alejandro Sanchez; October 21, 2011 at 04:15 AM.

  9. #9
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro Sanchez View Post

    This is my personal desire. I would like to see all the Crusades armies (which not directly related to the KoJ) as a new emergent faction, which has an alliance with KoJ. Because their leaders often do not recognize the supremacy of the King of Jerusalem in the Crusades, and generally had their own vested interests in the Holy Land.

    Well the 1st-3rd were fairly in line, but some of the rest were totally their own thing, I agree. At least, it would be good if the 4th Crusade had the possibility to emerge a new faction, called the "Latin States" or the like. I was very disappointed to finally see the 4th take Constantinople and then just be rebels, at war with me (as the KoJ). but I believe the faction slots are all used as of 3.0 aren't they?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Dago Red View Post
    but I believe the faction slots are all used as of 3.0 aren't they?
    Yes

  11. #11
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    You tease!

    Then it has to remain as is, unless a bold decision be made = making the 4th stacks convert immediately to the KoJ if successful in taking a city. Is that possible?
    And far from an advantage, I think in most cases that would be a disadvantage in many ways. You would be immediately at war with the ERE whether you like it or not, and have a huge monetary drain from the army you suddenly just had to factor into your budget.

    Chances are, it would be a short lived take over (script to spawn ERE counter attack army can be added too) and just an overall disaster for the KoJ's ultimate goals -- which have nothing to do with fighting the ERE or taking Constantinople. It could also put you in peril in other relationships with ERE allies (Kipchaks, Armenians, Georgians, whoever). The more I think about it, the more fun and interesting gameplay it presents for the player of any faction in the western part of the map.

  12. #12
    Harith's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    I vote to keep it just the way it is, less headache for the mod developers and less bugs for us to deal with and spoil our gameplay...
    Last edited by Harith; October 23, 2011 at 03:06 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
    Dago Red's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    He is a developer......

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Third Crusade

    Of course, the correct way is to have a emergent faction of something like "Latin States". But currently there is no such faction (in version 3.0), and all faction slots are occupied. As will be presented the armies of all Crusades, the question is open.
    Last edited by Alejandro Sanchez; October 23, 2011 at 11:52 PM.

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