Galactic Alliance VS The Imperium of Man! I think GA would ruin them

[Bellus88]

Ulysses S. Grant is just a 40K fanatic, he is zealous with sources becuase he contributed to a Warhammer wiki site but does not realize these are not academic subjects, I told you the Galactic Empire reached its height had "millions of ships" and this is on Wookiepedia so it is only logical to conclude that the combined strength of the Imperials Victory without war program along with its Alliance allies with in the period of Peace in the Galactic Alliance, then these figures would DOUBLE.

The Galactic Empires size is the basis for all Governments formed after it, why would they need to source more material when the size of the Galactic Empire is the same Astronomically as the Galactic Alliance is? Obviously they reached the same number of ships and more because the Galactic Alliance members included the Tion Hegemony/Chiss Ascendancy/ Hapes Consortum along with the super powers being the Fel Empire (post victory without war program) and the almost equally as powerful Alliance aka Republic who controlled Coruscant there for naming the Government the Galactic Alliance since Cosucant is the Center of all Political Affairs and is the Center of Power in the Star Wars Galaxy.

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Your posts make you sound like a Star Wars fanatic so the feelings mutual. Even so a debase doesn't need to be an academic one for sources to matter. Without them who knows if your arguments are really true. (Its also funny how you try not to direct arguments at me and instead try to get everyone else here to agree with you).

All i want is an argument that uses factual statements to prove a point not masses of text that doesn't really prove anything, but instead sounds like a rant.

Also a few pages back i commented on that wookiepedia thing about the Empires fleet size and i said it only says millions (It could be 100 million, but it could just as easily be 3 million).

[Bellus88]

"And could you source the point about a Jedi destroying an entire planet? I will be happy to source the info about the psyker."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihilus Third paragraph

Jedi's don't destroy planets, thats what Sith would do obviously or Dark Side Governments like the Galactic Empire.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galac...re#Astrography

The Galactic Empire's territory at its peak consisted of some one and a half million member and conquered worlds, as well as sixty-nine million colonies, protectorates and puppet states spread throughout the entire galaxy, stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to at least Wild Space.[14]

The Galactic Alliance was the same size in term of the 69 million figure which probably reached up to 80-88 million because the Tion/Hapes/Chiss were members but they had 1.2 million member worlds, the extra 300,000 planets were probably worlds "conquered" during the Empires reign.


The most recognizable symbol of the Imperial Starfleet was the Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which peaked at over twenty-five thousand vessels,[10] although millions of starships of different designs were fielded for various purposes.

Super Star Destroyers became infamous for their size and armament, but some also contributed to the fleets as logistics vessels[11] and starfighter carriers.


There is also another reference on this Wookiepedia of the GE being this large but I can't find it, that was a mistake because the 25,000 Star Destroyer figure comes from the Galactic Empires "Conquering" fleet, the Millions of ships were part of their Starfleet, the Galactic Empire did not need a very large conquering fleet because anyone who could challenge them would loose anyway, any extra galactic power challenging them with millions of ships would loose, they would simply call the Starfleet for back up.

Plus it is important to streets we are talking about the GALACTIC ALLIANCE here , not the Empire, I am only referencing the Empire because these are the only sources that exist for these numbers. Considering how the Galactic Empire was practically the same in size to the Galactic Alliance then it is only logical to assume that they also had these massive warfleets. They had even more because the Imperials developed a stronger Navy/Starfleet then the Alliance during the Victory without War program and probably had 20% more ships then the Alliance did since they lost more support due to the Sith manipulation which eventually turned into a major Galactic War.

Still the in the current continuity of Star Wars, they are now rebuilding after defeating the Sith who casued a division within the Imperials with many Imperials choosing to side with the Sith and other staying loyal to the much more benevolent Fel Empire who never did conquer other worlds by aggressive means and would only wage war in defense, they didn't even take part in slavery, the Alliance did, they were even nicer then the Galactic Alliance they were members of.

A New Galactic Federation Triumvirate is now formed but if you went back in time, obviously the Large Galactic Alliance would ruin the Imperium simply by over-running their Navy which is inferior in size and strength (since the most powerful Alliance/Empire ships are stronger then a Emperor Class BattleCruiser)

All you need to do is reference the Empires size, the Empires size is the basis for all governments after it since all of them reached the same apex of power that the Empire did, especially the Galactic Alliance who was 2X as strong with their fleet since the Victory without War program by the Empire within the Galactic Alliance saw the GA and Empire reaching about the same strength, then their are the smaller powers like the Hapes and Chiss who were members and obviously contributed even more millions of ships.

[SLN445]

From the evidence provided, the 40k universe is the clear winner in my view.

[Gods999]

Jedi's don't destroy planets, thats what Sith would do obviously or Dark Side Governments like the Galactic Empire.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galac...re#Astrography

The Galactic Empire's territory at its peak consisted of some one and a half million member and conquered worlds, as well as sixty-nine million colonies, protectorates and puppet states spread throughout the entire galaxy, stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to at least Wild Space.[14]

The Galactic Alliance was the same size in term of the 69 million figure which probably reached up to 80-88 million because the Tion/Hapes/Chiss were members but they had 1.2 million member worlds, the extra 300,000 planets were probably worlds "conquered" during the Empires reign.


The most recognizable symbol of the Imperial Starfleet was the Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which peaked at over twenty-five thousand vessels,[10] although millions of starships of different designs were fielded for various purposes.

Super Star Destroyers became infamous for their size and armament, but some also contributed to the fleets as logistics vessels[11] and starfighter carriers.


There is also another reference on this Wookiepedia of the GE being this large but I can't find it, that was a mistake because the 25,000 Star Destroyer figure comes from the Galactic Empires "Conquering" fleet, the Millions of ships were part of their Starfleet, the Galactic Empire did not need a very large conquering fleet because anyone who could challenge them would loose anyway, any extra galactic power challenging them with millions of ships would loose, they would simply call the Starfleet for back up.

Plus it is important to streets we are talking about the GALACTIC ALLIANCE here , not the Empire, I am only referencing the Empire because these are the only sources that exist for these numbers. Considering how the Galactic Empire was practically the same in size to the Galactic Alliance then it is only logical to assume that they also had these massive warfleets. They had even more because the Imperials developed a stronger Navy/Starfleet then the Alliance during the Victory without War program and probably had 20% more ships then the Alliance did since they lost more support due to the Sith manipulation which eventually turned into a major Galactic War.

Still the in the current continuity of Star Wars, they are now rebuilding after defeating the Sith who casued a division within the Imperials with many Imperials choosing to side with the Sith and other staying loyal to the much more benevolent Fel Empire who never did conquer other worlds by aggressive means and would only wage war in defense, they didn't even take part in slavery, the Alliance did, they were even nicer then the Galactic Alliance they were members of.

A New Galactic Federation Triumvirate is now formed but if you went back in time, obviously the Large Galactic Alliance would ruin the Imperium simply by over-running their Navy which is inferior in size and strength (since the most powerful Alliance/Empire ships are stronger then a Emperor Class BattleCruiser)

tl ; dr

[Bellus88]

You gotta realize that there is no definitive number from an "official" source in the star wars universe, that Fanfic site references the official sources and makes distinctions between the Imperial Navy and Imperial Starfleet, these are 2 different things completley. Every Succeeding government had these divided fleet aspects for example, The New Republic Navy would be a lot smaller and would be their offensive fleet that would only wage war in Self Defense against an enemy, and if the enemy was to big, they would call upon the Starfleets support. The Starfleet were the millions of ships who would secure the systems and provide security , their primary focus would be on stopping Smugglers/Pirates and would even mount offensive operations in Systems with no Order and significant pirate presence. The Fleet was the back bone, the Navy was the first line of defense.

4 of these Aspects came together during the Galactic Alliance.

Imperial Navy/Starfleet and Galactic Alliance Navy/Defense Fleet and they reached a balance in power during the Victory without war program by the Empire effectively becoming the largest and most powerful War fleet the Galaxy has ever seen.

The Fel Empire's territory originally consisted of a few "backwater" sectors in the Outer Rim Territories that bordered the Unknown Regions, located in the northern quadrant of the Galaxy. At some point following the Second Galactic Civil War, the Imperials once again began to regain territories

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fel_empire

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_Without_War This Program started after the Second Galactic Civil War during the Galactic Alliances reign, it was a minor war where succession movements were trying to gain independence and failed miserably. By the time this program was initiated many did not trust the Alliance anymore and supported the Empire, there for in a 10 year period, the Empire obviously regained its former fleet strength that is had during the first Galactic Empire, only this Empire was peaceful and did not spread influence through intimidation or conquering means, things only boiled over to war with the Alliance because the Sith Sabatogged the Ossuss project knowing many Imperials would support the Sith, many worlds did not trust the Alliance after that and supported the Benevolent Imperial Empire and the war started.

Still their was a 50-80 year period of peace where both the Imperial Navy/Starfleet and Galactic Alliance Navy/Starfleet were at the apex of its power, 2 minor wars probably did not damage them much but when they fought each other , obviously their fleets were reduced significantly because they are the most powerful galactic powers.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galac...on_Triumvirate

So while the Imperium continues its slow paintful decline as it has for a long time now since the Age of the Imperium is over and they are in the time of ending, This new Federation is now rebuilding itself after a devastating 9-10 year war with the Sith Empire which pitted a Galactic Alliance/Fel Imperial Empire against the Sith Controlled Galactic Empire.

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Why do you keep multi-posting? And multi-posting walls of text doesn't make your "argument" easy to follow. Your point gets lost. Still i see your repeating yourself again.

[Derpy Hooves]

Do the mods even pay attention to this sub forum?

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Not very often. Thats why we need local mods.

[Derpy Hooves]

I would be more than willing to be a local mod. So where do I start>

[Gods999]

Lightsabers will always be badass though!

[Derpy Hooves]

Not as BA as chainswords.

[SPECTREtm]

I seriously doubt you would need a titan. a tank hunter will take that out.

A guy with a FGM-148 would be enough to take that thing down...

[nameless]

"And could you source the point about a Jedi destroying an entire planet? I will be happy to source the info about the psyker."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihilus Third paragraph

Not sure where your going with this.

We've established that not many force users are on the same level as the two you've noted or anywhere near them. Also that not everyone is a force user.

The psyker mutation is increasing in the Imperium and thousands are sacrificed to sustain the Emperor and his beacon. The rest are incorporated into the Grey Knights, battle psykers, librarians, etc.

So do the math. The Imperium simply has more.

Plus it is important to streets we are talking about the GALACTIC ALLIANCE here , not the Empire, I am only referencing the Empire because these are the only sources that exist for these numbers. Considering how the Galactic Empire was practically the same in size to the Galactic Alliance then it is only logical to assume that they also had these massive warfleets. They had even more because the Imperials developed a stronger Navy/Starfleet then the Alliance during the Victory without War program and probably had 20% more ships then the Alliance did since they lost more support due to the Sith manipulation which eventually turned into a major Galactic War.

Except the Galactic Empire would represent the peak of what the Star Wars universe would provide as it is a total military machine which the Imperium is. At its peak it had 25,000 star destroyers plus at least a million ships which obviously are escorts and frigates that are much smaller than the destroyers.

Star destroyers are more or less the same size of the Imperium's frigates and are outgunned so I'm not sure where you get this idea that even with numbers which the Imperium has superiority over they still come out on top.

Then move onto the Galactic alliance the biggest ships they have are 300m cruisers with the Palleoan class star Destroyers but the Fel Dynasty doesn't even have that many ships. Simply put, they cannot maintain large class warships.

And enough with the damn victory without war program. That was a program where they went out and provided aid to other worlds to entice them to the empire and controlling them. And the word, "probably" isn't helping you a lot as your making a lot of assumptions here.

[Derpy Hooves]

A guy with a FGM-148 would be enough to take that thing down...

Obvious troll is obvious. I am pretty sure that no modern day weaponry is capable of eliminating a Titan.

[Hopit]

Obvious troll is obvious. I am pretty sure that no modern day weaponry is capable of eliminating a Titan.

nukes are


Jedi vs a space marine goes down to this:
space marine shoots a bolter shell, jedi tries to deflect it with his light saber = it blows up on his face

[nameless]

Obvious troll is obvious. I am pretty sure that no modern day weaponry is capable of eliminating a Titan.

He meant that a javelin missile launcher could take down an AT-AT. Given how weak an AT-AT armour is I wouldn't be surprised.

[Ulysses S. Grant]

Here is a funny thing i found:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1...7763805345.gif

[Sanguinary Guardian]

Well, I am NOT going to read these text walls, and Bellus, you lose any credibility you may have had with the following argument: "the Imperium is slightly better on the ground and only because of the Titans" That's just plainly idiotic, biased and with no proof other than your fanboyish wet dreams.

[Påsan]

Bellus needs to learn how to structure an argument. I kind of feel sorry for him because he's obviously put alot of effort into those walls of text without getting much done. Hey, Bellus, I think there is a course here on TWC that instruct people on debating skills and procedures, you should check it out.