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Thread: Censuring of Darth Wong

  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Censuring of Darth Wong

    My duty as a Civitate has forced me to bring Darth Wong before the Curia to be censured. Darth Wong has a very agressive style of posting which is violating the TOS and currently has two unexpired warning and if he is given another will be put before Ostrakon. I believed he is in need of corrective action so that he may stay a Civitate and continue to contribute his viewpoint to the site under the Civitate banner.

    Evidence:
    Quote Originally Posted by DW
    Quote Originally Posted by evan_Kikla
    No just the repetetivness of his argumeants. He can't prove prayer did not help people in these situations so he pulls up **** that happens where prayer did not work, however he does not know the inner workings of God so its not exactly a valid argumeant.
    You have no clue what is a valid argument. If prayer worked, THERE WOULD BE EVIDENCE. It would be possible to SHOW that it works. You can't, therefore it doesn't.
    If you're going to spew outright lies and pretend that you've never heard of a scientific theory regarding the origin of species, there's not much constructive discussion that can possibly take place.
    Well sorry, but you're a pampered suburban middle-class person with no real troubles, and you're just trying to manufacture excuses to cry "martyr".
    How is it "petty name calling?" I didn't call anyone any names, unless you think "pampered middle class person" is some sort of scathing insult. Perhaps you just don't want to admit the truth, which is that I'm right about your desire to manufacture a belief that you are a persecuted minority. There's certainly no evidence of this persecution, and your own attempts to provide examples of it only demonstrate the exaggeration that I'm talking about.
    Compared to his ridiculous claims of persecution? Yes, he's pampered. I'm not trying to get "out of a bind"; I'm pointing out that Turbo is imagining things.

    I do live a pampered life. All of us in the comfortable western middle-class world do, although it appears that not all of us are willing to admit it. The fact that you take umbrage at the truth does not justify your behaviour. I did not, however, marry an atheist.

    I seriously cannot believe how massively you have overreacted to the word "pampered". If you were trying to make yourself look more reasonable than me, this was not the way to do it.
    Turbo, I said that you have a desire to invent a persecution complex. I pointed out that people have probably been telling you this all your life. If you want to believe that this means I'm calling you a liar, so be it, but I think it's more of a psychological conditioning problem; you look for signs of persecution, the same way young black men look for signs of racism. And naturally, both of you inevitably find it.
    Are you trying to tell me that reminding people of the rules of logic and calling for the mass-murder of millions of people are similar?

    <Troll/Flame Removed>

    Tell me, do you even know what an ad-hominem fallacy is? "You're biased, therefore you're being illogical" is an ad-hominem fallacy (and it happens to be one which you made a career out of using against me). But "You are misrepresenting the argument, therefore you are being illogical" is not.
    (Fortunately for Darth Wong, H&G did not save the Troll/Flame)

    Let me describe Evan's argument in these terms:

    "I have a black box here in my hands. This black box has magical powers, and it can heal you. Unfortunately, I can't provide a shred of evidence that it actually works, apart from the fact that I say it does. I also have friends who say it works, but they can't demonstrate this under controlled conditions either. But you can't prove it doesn't work, can you? And you don't know what's inside the black box, so you don't know how it works, so you have no valid argument against it!"

    We have an old saying for this kind of black box. It's called "snake oil", and it's the same thing whether 19th century hucksters are selling it or 21st century priests.
    All of this evidence proves that Darth Wong's posting style is not worthy of a Civitate, but not worthy of an Ostrakon either so a Curial Censure is in order.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    vizi's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    BOOO to this thread. He has done nothing wrong but be boisterous about his opinions. Which doesn't merit a censur

  3. #3

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    This is getting out of hand.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    I was afraid that this would happen. I've already warned Darth Wong via PM about his current behavior.

    I was rather reluctant to issue him an official warning so instead I gave him another chance.

    If indeed I had issued a usernote warning, we would be having a whole different discussion right now.

    Darth Wong just needs to relax and tone it down a bit. He should be more respecful in his debates.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    What is a censure?
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  6. #6
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Censure

    If a Civitates behaves in a manner that, while unbecoming of Civitates, does not warrant an Ostrakon, he may instead be reprimanded via Censure. A Censure is private message sent by the Syntagma Curator consisting of the following:

    1. It will inform the offender that he has lost his rights to patronize or become a Patrician for two months.
    2. It will detail the specific actions that lead to the Censure.
    3. It will offer advice on how to improve his demeanor.

    ...

    Procedure for issuing Censure or Ostrakon

    1. A thread in the Prothalamos is opened specifying the reason for the Censure or Ostrakon.
    1. In the case of Censure, this process lasts for three days.
    2. In the case of Ostrakon, this process lasts for a full week and lists the rank in which the Civitate will be reduced to.
    2. After this period, a vote shall be opened for one week and will be decided by a majority of non-abstaining voters.
    3. Veto may be used in accordance with the Staff Veto Act.

    and there you have it. Darth Wong's debating style can be a bit aggressive, but i do not agree with this procedure, his debating talent is a credit to this site in 9.5/10 cases, and from what i gather he has been warned when crossing over the line.. so whats the point in a censure?
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    I abstain on this issue.
    Well, if I, Belisarius, the Black Prince, and you all agree on something, I really don't think there can be any further discussion.
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  8. #8
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    To be honest, I'm kind of amused that anyone would think those posts were so bad. I never say anything without backing it up, "pampered" is hardly a heinous insult, and that last one ... I can't even understand why anyone would consider that "trolling" at all since it is a logical argument about appeals to undefined solutions.

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  9. #9
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    ach, if he removed the first word from each of his posts he'd probably be fine (it tends to be 'nonsense' or some such). Other than that I think his style is aggressive but don't see a huge problem with it, if it gets out of hand moderators can step in.

    Certainly nothing to be censured for.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Turbo, I said that you have a desire to invent a persecution complex. I pointed out that people have probably been telling you this all your life. If you want to believe that this means I'm calling you a liar, so be it, but I think it's more of a psychological conditioning problem; you look for signs of persecution, the same way young black men look for signs of racism. And naturally, both of you inevitably find it.
    Whats wrong with this one?

    Let me describe Evan's argument in these terms:

    "I have a black box here in my hands. This black box has magical powers, and it can heal you. Unfortunately, I can't provide a shred of evidence that it actually works, apart from the fact that I say it does. I also have friends who say it works, but they can't demonstrate this under controlled conditions either. But you can't prove it doesn't work, can you? And you don't know what's inside the black box, so you don't know how it works, so you have no valid argument against it!"

    We have an old saying for this kind of black box. It's called "snake oil", and it's the same thing whether 19th century hucksters are selling it or 21st century priests.
    What's wrong with this one?
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  11. #11
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Quote Originally Posted by David Deas
    Whats wrong with this one?
    It was part of his usernotes...
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  12. #12

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Yeah. But whats wrong with it? People need to know this stuff. Me especially, so I can be 100% aware of where the line here is.
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  13. #13
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Quote Originally Posted by David Deas
    Yeah. But whats wrong with it? People need to know this stuff. Me especially, so I can be 100% aware of where the line here is.
    Imb has the backround...

    The last one is an example of mocking someone rather than attacking thier point.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  14. #14
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    while I agree that his agrument style is aggresive, indeed sometimes a little pompeous, I see no reason to censure him.
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  15. #15
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan
    Imb has the backround...

    The last one is an example of mocking someone rather than attacking thier point.
    Hardly. It was an almost exact representation of Evan's argument, in which he claimed that I could not say his solution was no good because no one knew how it worked. The use of analogies in an argument is hardly "trolling", and the only reason I didn't dispute that charge or publicly protest it at the time was because I just didn't feel like it was worth it.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Hahahaha! I have long been aware of Darths somewhat aggressive debating style, I've been on the wrong end of one of his arguments before, but I cant support this censure because I dont think Darth deserves it. I agree he should probably tone it down a little bit until all this censure/ostrakon stuff calms down a bit, but Darth is a smart guy who has contributed lots to TWC in the past, and I cant say the quotes that were pulled against him are deserving of a curial warning.

    Darth is an example of how you can still technically be a rude dillhole in your posts, but not have anyone really care that he just insulted you, because of all the rest of the stuff he wrote which is actually valid argument He's good at delivering his jabs at you from behind substance and valid argument/opinion, thats something I'd like to study and learn from him if he could teach me, not something I'd want to punish him for. Darth I bought this shirt for you:


  17. #17
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Actually, I think he honestly doesn't understand what people are saying. I'm not sure how old he is, but he strikes me as someone who's not very well educated. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to recognize that as a limitation.
    Another such post by Darth Wong, attacking his opponent as being not very educated, this is in the Evolution vs. Creationism thread.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  18. #18

    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    I'm sorry to say that its true, he may use valid arguments with long words, but it doesn't change the fact that he is agressive in getting his points across. To censor(sp) him is probably correct, it definitely isnt worthy of an ostrakon.

  19. #19
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan
    Another such post by Darth Wong, attacking his opponent as being not very educated, this is in the Evolution vs. Creationism thread.
    Nice job taking that out of context. I was actually responding to someone ELSE who suspected the person in question of being dishonest.

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  20. #20
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Censuring of Darth Wong

    Wong is a very intelligent person. I enjoy sparring with him, thus I can't honestly judge this issue. I only suggest that those who want to censor him consider this matter equanimously.

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