Stele 8: release time...

[that_one_guy]

I'd like to see that discussion actually

lol, yeah. almost sounds like a Monty Python skit... almost.

Also, isn't it funny how the thread for release date discussion, like every other such thread, has devolved into personal little side discussions? A little annoying that release dates are so tabooed. Why can't modders organize themselves sufficiently to at least give a rough estimate of release dates?

Not to be rude of course, this is purely a question out of curiosity. I very much appreciate the unfathomable amount of work modders put into the awesome, professional quality work they give us.

[The_Steppenwulf]

It would be useful for me and perhaps many others if a post were stickied and closed with a single OP underlining the status of the mod. I just don't have the time to look through all your previews (as awesome as they are) and other posts to find out if we at beta stage or otherwise.
I personally want a single link in my browser to a post that informs on status and will be updated as the status of the mod changes. ie "No release date yet confirmed" or "Release date confirmed = ?" and/or "Released = downloadlink". That would be the single most effectual action that would repeatedly bring me back to the EBII mod forum on TW, and thus maintain an active interest in the development of the mod.

[dajarvi]

Easy. Keep an eye on the Twitter.

[Petroniu]

Do you think everybody has a twitter?

[Mediolanicus]

Do you think everybody has a twitter?

Does that matter?

EB has, and you can follow that. Doesn't matter whether you have twitter or not, unless you want to comment on their tweets on twitter itself.

[Destraex]

Yes, the Stelai are back, and in this Stele we will cover “Releasing Europa Barbarorum II: what could possibly go wrong?”

Take a minute to think about Medieval II: Total War (or Kingdoms, if you prefer) and some mods. Stunning mods, immersive mods, mods which provide hours and hours of fun as you play them over and over again. Mods that have been crafted with great care, and attention to detail, pushing the boundaries of the engine and making it the best it can be.

Now think a minute about installing them. Is it smooth? Easy? Does it just work, right out of the box? Unfortunately, no. It turns out installing a mod is surprisingly difficult. But that is not quite right. The better answer is that it turns out a lot can and does go wrong. As the Europa Barbarorum team, we have first hand experience of what can possibly go wrong since we have made a few releases of Europa Barbarorum I to start with and have the battle scars to prove it.

See if you would have thought of all these issues by yourself (this exercise is particularly useful if you were thinking of making an installer for your mod yourself):

1. The UAC feature in modern versions of Windows (Vista, 7).
2. Some fans might use 32 bit versions of Windows, and others might use 64 bit ones.
3. Medieval II Total War is typically installed under “Program Files”.
4. You should not need to be administrator to install a mod. Reason is that it may interfere with the ability to play the mod as a normal user (see 1 and 3).
5. Your mod is too large for a single installer.
6. Speaking of size: for your fans to download your mod, you must have uploaded it first!
7. Your mod needs to work with Steam versions of Medieval II Total War/Kingdoms
8. Desktop shortcuts and Start Menu shortcuts need to know the location of Medieval II Total War/Kingdoms
9. It is possible that Medieval II Total War/Kingdoms are installed, but you have no way of locating it automatically (see 8).
10. It is possible that both Steam and retail versions of Medieval II Total War/Kingdoms are installed on the same computer. Can you install only one copy of the mod which can be played through both?
11. You want the ability to support multiple languages for your installer (and mod).
12. Fans who do not understand your installation guide.
13. Fans who do not read the installation guide first (and may make mistakes).
14. Angry ones who did not manage to figure out how to install your mod for themselves and are now at the gates, demanding technical support from you.
15. Medieval II Total War requires numerous IDX/DAT files which you need to provide with your mod; and you can't ask your fans to jump through the necessary hoops to let the game generate those files themselves.
16. The Launcher program included with Medieval II Total War/Kingdoms has a few quirks. These quirks affect how you need to install your mod, in order for the Launcher to be able to launch it correctly.
17. Not all files you need to develop a mod may be needed to play it. For instance, for descriptions of units and buildings only the binary versions (strings.bin files) are required. The source code is not used by the game.
18. How long will it take for an installer to be assembled? Who is able to build an installer, and are they always available?
19. What if you want to release a patch for your mod?
20. What if a fan reinstalls the mod with a different configuration of options? (For instance the first time this fan selected to install a Desktop shortcut, but the second time he only wants a Start Menu shortcut.)
21. What if a fan wants to install multiple copies of your mod? (E.g.: for some modding of their own?)

These are all issues which we felt we needed to address in our installers with Europa Barbarorum II. It would be well beyond this Stele to provide answers for each of these issues; instead we will highlight a few choice examples.

Firstly, being able to install the mod in multiple different languages might not seem such a “must have” feature at first. That is, until you remember that Europa Barbarorum I has been translated into German at one point. Taking this into consideration early on also helped identify more technical issues: issue number 20 becomes more self evident once you realise that a shorcut called “Play Europa Barbarorum II” in English will have a completely different name in French!

Secondly, you may already have spotted that issue number 18 is actually another question in disguise: “how long will it take to release the first beta?”. The answer is: thirty five minutes (excluding updating the website). This is how long it takes to convert all the files that make up our mod into a file which contains the installer and make it available for download from our internal FTP server. We know this because we have done several of these releases for testing purposes (to test the installer, among other things).

Thirdly, with Europa Barbarorum II we attempt to automate the entire process of building an installer and doing a release. We use the server that hosts our website for this purpose: by building the installer on that server we avoid having the upload it over the Internet. This makes the whole process considerably faster, because in our test runs the final generated file topped out at about 1.1GB. Imagine you had to upload 1.1GB from your computer to a webserver!

That is it for now. Regards,

No offense, but it sounds like you guys are scared of your own shadows. Alexander anyone?
Perhaps this should be released as an Alpha and people warned that it is in such a state and complicated to use.

Its a mod and by the time it comes out total war ROME2 will be here.
The medieval kingdoms engine already looks sooo dated and is missing so many things the newer total war games have.

I respect you work and am eagerly awaiting this. But its been more than 5yrs now yes? If you do not want to share it with the community and are having fun just modding and testing internally. It is of course your work and you can learn a lot along the way.

Suffice to say though that I think a lot of people would actually be hard put to come back to this engine and all of its dated graphics and AI problems. No ships is a major problem for this ancient mod if you ask me.

This mod was on my most anticipated list once. But instead it is on my likely never going to be released list.
I do check every now and then though. If this ever does get released I will be a happy man as I love reading about history and having everything perfect as far as history can tell.

IIRC their is a new ancient mod for Empire Total War?

[Stath's]

I'd like to say that i don't care about how old the Kingdoms engine(imo,graphics are a secondary issue for strategy games) is or how A.I. has problems (we saw it in Empire worse than ever and EB team said they are going to improve it).

The EB team have proved themselves to be able to create a game exactly as it should be. This, of course, takes time. Most important of all, their free time (and this is what everyone must consider, when thinking "why so much delay?")

It is their project and they should release it when they feel it is ready.

If someone actually waits for something, i don't see how complaining to the creators of it would have a positive result for everyone.

You can wait and you can stop waiting. But, I don't believe you have the right to complain.

[Destraex]

I have seen too many mods die because the devs took their time and were too perfectionist. This was my attempt to wake them from their slumber.
I did know that somebody would have your view would post right after.
As for having a right to complain, I have a right to my opinion and have posted it. It was more advice to the modders than to provoke a defensive reaction from fans.

As for believing that things that are locked by the developers can be changed, we will see. So far nobody has really been able to fix any of those problems with med2.

It is their mod and they can release it when they like of course. I did want to make my fears for this mod known to the developers however.
If they plan to take another 5yrs to develop this I doubt the computers of the day will even support the game. This is of course the developers perogative, however
the mod is in the public eye and the public may have an opinion. I am honestly worried for this mod. But can worry no longer.
Fingers crossed the next Total War game is Rome2 and announced in the next month or two.

[Lord Dakier]

I have to agree, an alpha or beta would be ideal. Your just trying please everyone which is going to be impossible in the early stages.

We saw so many Japan orientated mods die the day the Shogun 2 was released it won't be too long before Rome 2 (2-3 years) anyone can see that. Why bother to have work wasted, I'd love to get some hands on atleast custom battles for now but the second a Rome 2 is out, I'd just go and get that like anyone else would. Just my recommendation really.

[Destraex]

2-3yrs is conservative actually. The next Total War game is being worked on a long time before the current one is even first released. They seem to be cycling at around 2yr intervals.
I mean what was the gap between napoleon and shogun2? imho its a pretty good bet Rome2 is next.

On the up side at least this team will have all their research and planning done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War_(series)
Shogun: Total War 2000, 2001 Windows Mongol Invasion Warlord Edition, Gold Edition, Total War: Eras
Medieval: Total War 2002, 2003 Windows Viking Invasion Gold Edition, Total War: Eras
Rome: Total War 2004, 2005, 2006, Windows, Mac (Gold Edition) Barbarian Invasion, Alexander Gold Edition, Anthology, Total War Collection, Total War: Eras
Medieval II: Total War 2006, 2007 Windows Kingdoms Gold Edition, Total War Collection
Empire: Total War 2009 Windows, Mac The Warpath Campaign, Various 'Elite Units packs' (Online) Gold Edition, Empire And Napoleon Total War - Game Of The Year Edition, Total War Collection
Napoleon: Total War 2010 Windows The Peninsular Campaign, Imperial Guard Pack (Online) Empire And Napoleon Total War - Game Of The Year Edition, Total War Collection
Total War: Shogun 2 2011, 2012

[Destraex]

Well its about two weeks now I hope before Rome2 is announced. If it is the usual release time would be christmas or first quarter.

[varangopoylos]

lol dude what makes so certain that the next game tw will release will be rome 2?i have read in some forums that they intend to use all the experience they have acquired from shogun2+fots,which means probably a game in victorian/wwI epoche

[Rasic]

lol dude what makes so certain that the next game tw will release will be rome 2?i have read in some forums that they intend to use all the experience they have acquired from shogun2+fots,which means probably a game in victorian/wwI epoche

I happen to share that view as it makes the most sense to be a victorian/ww1, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went for rome 2 early instead of making a new engine for it, just because its a huge cash cow.

As far as Rome 2 killing the mod.. even if it is Rome 2 it'll be mid-late next year or even later before it's released and even then awhile before it is "playable" (meaning people modding out the ugly unhistorical units and other crap from the game). More than enough time to enjoy this mod if they release at least a beta by the winter and then.... EB3 can start its 6 year development, and so the circle of life continues

[Risasi]

If there is a Rome 2 I doubt it will be very supportive of modding. And I won't buy it anyway because of Steam and the "this should have been in there" DLC of the week. EBII is the only Rome era TW game that interests me. I learned my lesson from S2TW. Meantime the current (and soon to be released) RTW/M2TW mods out there are good enough.

[Rasic]

If there is a Rome 2 I doubt it will be very supportive of modding. And I won't buy it anyway because of Steam and the "this should have been in there" DLC of the week. EBII is the only Rome era TW game that interests me. I learned my lesson from S2TW. Meantime the current (and soon to be released) RTW/M2TW mods out there are good enough.

I agree on the business practices of CA/SEGA being .. but I'm not gonna lie I'll buy the next game regardless as long as it's a time period that interests me (like rome or victoria). I was bored of shogun 2 almost instantly.. in fact I only played one campaign. Felt like a waste of money.

Med2 engine doesn't look that horrible to be honest and I could/can live with it.. but when you start putting a lot of scripts into it which you have to do for some of these fancy modding idea's then the turn times become so slow its unbearable. Also I'd be excited for sea combat and obviously the improved graphics.

I just hope it is somewhat moddable and that we have a team like the EB one, or even them if they are up to it, to make it more histoical and less arcade feeling like CA's titles always are at release.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Since im on dial up and thusly, cant use steam, I go with mods *shrugs*. And yeah, if ya'll got this up to a Beta release, release it maaan! Most mods seem to be considered "betas", even if they function perfectly. Just make patches until you hit final release.

Not that I wouldnt appreciate some bug hunting and such. As noted, dial up.(I have my ladyfriend download stuff for me and send it to me on memory sticks)

But yeah, dont be OVERLY perfectionist. And seriously, if Rome 2 comes out, dont let it stop you from finishing(Odin willingly, you'll be done by then though). Ive been worried about that for the Company of Heroes: Eastern Front 2.0 mod, since CoH2 Real features the soviets. Doesnt include the Ostheer though

From my experiance with mods, mods are far superior to anything the actual paid game makers actually make. You got real history. You get innovation. And its all free. By the people.

Edit: On the note of graphics, I think Medieval 2 has great graphics, even today. Rome Total War feels dated to me, but Medieval 2 seems perfectly fine *shrugs*

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Accidental Double Post

[Destraex]

Even if its victoria EA still have another 6yrs or so to release rome2 from what I am reading about how long this mod has to go. I am being totally serious. Have a look at some of the posts here. They are only just talking about starting some entirely new features like AI from scratch that take years to perfect.
Another quote from just the other day about whether legions will have numbers:
"Probably to early to give a definitive answer as the previews state that the first build will only have Camillian Romans.

All of this leads me to believe that after 6yrs or so its still early days for this mod.

[bobbin]

You know that was a fan who wrote that, not a member of the team? The mod is certainly not in its "early days" stage.

[Casual Tactician]

@Destraex

1. Do you play EB1? [I do - and I don't really care for any TW-engine advances - EB is still a fantastic game to play. I also don't care about high-end graphics and such. Good gameplay is what I like, and EB1 has it in bundles... and EB2 will have good gameplay quadrupled...]

2. Why do you bother posting here?

3. RTW and M2TW mods far more popular than the few (engine-limited) mods of their successors

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[arbitrary shots taken today...]












And have a look at the EB-views:

4. Do you believe trolling will encourage the guys working (in their free time!) on EB2?


PS: I don't get the message of guys like you, who don't contribute anything to the TW-modding-community, but feel fit to nag and trolll... Sod off!

You is Baldric... the pencil is my opinion of guys like you...
.