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Thread: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

  1. #1

    Default Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Alrighty, we're starting to finalize all our work on the family trees going in to the first build of the mod, so it seemed like a good idea to put up a preview for some of them.

    NOTE - the portraits displayed in these previews are NOT finalised/completed and do not necessarily represent those that we'll release in the 1st and subsequent releases of the mod.

    ... the Norsemen are come!

    Last family tree preview before our release I feel, but it's a big one... Noregr (Norway)



    *** I had some serious issues with my art apps crashing while writing the text/names, which explains why the quality is so poor - apologies, but I didn't want to have to redo the entire list again! I have other family tree's to build instead!

    To zoom in, click on the image above to go to the image on picasa then select the magnifying glass above it and then when the preview appears use the slider in the bottom right.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Previous trivia answer... 5 "dynastic" bloodlines in direct lineage from Hċkon av Lade to Prins Magnus (Barefoot):
    1. Hċkon av Lade (Grjotgardsson) and the "Ladejarl" bloodline.
    2. Harald Hárfagri, the "Fairhair" bloodline.
    3. Tora Torbergsson (named -datter historically), the "Arnung" bloodline - Tora's father was Thorberg Arnesson (also ingame!) and was of the Arnung family (from Finnvid Fundne & his finding in the Eagle's nest) and the first of the Arnesson's to reside @ Giske and differentiate themselves from the rest of the Arnesson strands.
    4. Tora Torbergsson (again!), the "Erlingsson of Sola" (ingame as av Soli) bloodline - Tora's mother was Ragnhild, daughter of Erling Skjalgsson (he too is also ingame) and was an important figure against the founding of Norway as a unified state under the Fairhair king's. It is his descendants that went on to become the same Kings of a unified Norway he'd originally dissented of.
    5. Ingerid av Danmark, the "Estridsson" bloodline - from a different faction, a daughter of Sweyn II Estridsson, King of Denmark and sister to current King of Denmark, Knud IV (both ingame under the Denmark faction).

    *** numbers 3 & 4 were not royal bloodlines, but were important rulers/regents or characters in Norway's history and of dynasties to a lesser, but no less interesting, degree

    So all in all, King Olav Kyrre and young Barefoot too, have quite the mix of history running through their veins!



    FACTION: Polska


    Notes & Decisions on the Poland Family Tree:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Note 1:
    Inter-faction marriages are displayed with the incoming factions indicated using a localized versions of the character first name and faction identifying byname.
    Examples for this Poland family tree are...

    Females:
    Dobrawa of Bohemia ...shown as "Dobrawa z Czech"
    Emnilda of Lusatia ...shown as "Emnilda Słowiańska"
    Richeza Ezzonen of Lotharingia ...shown as "Rycheza Lotaryńska"
    Maria Dobroniega of Kiev ...shown as "Maria z Kijów" (Maria of Kiev)
    Wyszeslawa Sviatoslavna ...shown as "Wyszesława z Kijów"
    Judith Premyslid ...shown as "Judyta z Czech" (Judith of Bohemia)

    Males:
    Erik Segersäll - King of Sweden ..."Eryk ze Szwecji" (Erik of Sweden)
    Herman I of Meissen - Margrave of Meissen ..."Herman z Miśni" (Herman of Meissen)
    Béla I Árpád - King of Hungary ..."Bela z Węgry"
    Iziaslav Yaroslavich - Grand Prince of Kiev ..."Izasław z Kijów"
    Wratislaus II Premyslid - King of Bohemia ..."Wratysław z Czech"

    This ease of recognition of inter-faction marriages using bynames will help you also identify & trace the origins of the possible dynastic bloodline traits that your playable characters may have depending on their lineage.
    The localized version of the names keeps everything faction-centric and should add to the immersion of playing as a historical medieval dynasty.

    Note 2:
    Typically, where a factions princesses married into another faction or dynasty, she played little part in her original factions affairs after the date of the marriage.
    This faction separation is shown with herself and her new husband displayed as "off_map" in the family tree. This keeps them visible but beyond your faction control - yet they will continue to age but produce no children. (If one or both of the new couple had died historically by mod start date, they are simply shown as dead)
    Even if the couple had historically had children by the mod start date, they are not shown in your family tree, the couple's marriage effectively being considered as their cut off point from all your faction affairs (however, if the faction that your princess has married into is in the mod, expect to see her in that family tree as well, but fully active and with any children she had historically and/or the ability to have more as the turns progress).
    e.g. above, Wratysław z Czech the King of Bohemia has married Świętosława Kazimierzowic meaning she has entered Bohemia's Premyslid dynasty, no children will feature for her in the Poland family tree but they will be shown in Bohemia's, with Wratysław showing as the active Faction Leader as well.

    *** A limitation to this is where a character features in 2 family trees in-game (1 off_map and 1 active), they are completely separate entries and may not live to the same age as each other. This has no effect or impact on the faction that the character is off_map for, with the exception of a date discrepancy that can only be seen if you are playing 2 factions via hotseat mode and can compare both family trees.

    Note 3:
    Other characters that once played a part in your factions history, are historically still alive at the mod start date but are disassociated with your faction for some historical reason, are displayed in the family tree but kept "off_map"
    e.g. for Poland, King Bolesław II Szczodry, was deposed in 1079 but still lived during and after 1080... he would end up dead a couple of years later having fled the country


    It's by no means perfect and for this example I've done my best with my attempts at getting Polish translations for other faction names.
    If anyone can see corrections that need made or general comments, please feel free to offer them up below


    FACTION: Alba


    Notes & Decisions on the Scotland Family Tree:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Note 1
    This is the first example showing where the constraints of the game itself force us to modify a family tree from that its historical version.
    King Mael Coluim (Malcolm III of Scotland), our FL above had 9 children of which 8 were of faction & historical importance, but the game engine only allows us to display 4 as a maximum in the family tree.
    As 4 is the maximum, the children have had to be spread between Mael Coluim and his brother Domnall (Donald III of Scotland). Domnall had no significant children historically and so was deemed a good fit for "fostering" 4 of Mael Coluim's to fit our needs.
    The arrangement of the children was done in order from the eldest to youngest, with an exception considered where any historical events caused a legitimate reason for a variation. For this family tree it is explained as:

    ...under Mael Coluim
    1. Donnchad mac Maíl Coluim, 1st born son to the King's previous wife Ingibiorg Finnsdottir (not shown)
    2. Prince Edward, our King's 2nd son and the first from his marriage to Margaret of Wessex. Edward was the historical designated heir at the mod start date of 1080.
    3. Edgar, the King's 5th born son is listed next to Edward as opposed to Edmund the 3rd born. This replaces Edmund as next in line due to historical actions bey Edmund (see his entry below)
    4. Alexander, follows chronological order as the 6th born son.
    *** Ethelred was the King's 4th born son but has been discounted from any inclusion as he followed a clerical life and did not impact the factions history)

    ...under Domnall macDonnchada
    1. Edmund, 3rd born son of the King's. Edmund has been moved under Domnall as historically he did become Domnall's heir when he betrayed King Mael Coluim's 1st born son (of his first marriage to Ingibiorg, not shown in-game), his own half-brother, Donnchad macMail Choluim.
    2. David, follows further chronological order after Alexander, 7th born.
    3. Edith, chronological order, 8th born child.
    4. Mary, again chronological order, 9th child.

    Note 2
    All children of our FL Mael Coluim's born to his 2nd wife Margaret of Wessex (shown as Maighread Sasanach, meaning Margaret of England) have been added with english first names. This change has been done to hint at the links these children had to the English throne. Some of them spent time as children at the English court, so non-Gaelic names would not have been strange to them, whilst over the next 30-40yrs the influence from English/Norman culture in the Scottish court culminated in the emergence of a Scoto-Norman culture, prevalent in the reign of David I of Scotland (our ingame David macMail Choluim, aged 2!)


    For the unfamiliar with M2:TW family trees, here's some considerations when building a complex family tree within the games constraints and the DotS vision:
    1. Character can only have a max of 4 children
    2. Where more then 4 children existed historically, the 4 most historically important or interesting were chosen
    3. Where there were more then 4 children historically and information/research is available for those descendants over and above 4, the extra children are fostered (displayed) under a different character (with some familial ties) or a duplicate entry of their father is created.
    4. Naming conventions for other faction characters within each family tree tries to remain as localised and faction-centric as possible to add to the feeling of historical faction immersion. Bynames are used in preference to epithets to try and keep the occurrence of foreign names becoming leading families of a non-related faction e.g. Segersäll is displayed as ze Szwecji (meaning "of Sweden") for the Polish family tree to avoid the chance of Segersäll becoming a prominent name for Poland
    5. Where a historical character is a member of or marries into different faction family trees, they will be represented with a localised name per faction they are a member of - the same character will appear slightly differently named per faction they have involvement with
    6. Epithets are largely avoided for the starting family trees as the way the game handles the inheritance of a fathers surname to all children, would mean the over population of that epithet in the family tree when that name was actually a unique occurrence e.g. you don't want all of Kazimierz I Odnowiciel's (Odnowiciel meaning "the Restorer") children and generations beyond to be surnamed "the Restorer".
    7. Generational suffixes (numerals after firstnames) are not displayed for the same reason as 6. above. The game randomly select new childrens names which could lead to a Robert IV having a child named Robert II, possibly even twice.
    8. Where no historical name or research is available for a characters spouse, a random name has had to created using local faction first & surnames.


    Further family trees to follow in the days & weeks ahead - I'll be adding less notes in future as the notes from both examples above pretty much show the train of thought behind any non-historical changes that we have to implement to get the tree's into the mod.
    Last edited by raziel_eire; November 04, 2011 at 07:38 AM.

    ...history abhors a paradox

    -------------


  2. #2

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    that's looking great raziel_eire. look forward to seeing more...
    Veni Vidi Velcro


  3. #3
    Miles
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Awesome family tree!

    I just have on question. Why do a seven year old boy look like 30 in the tree?

  4. #4
    Hengest's Avatar It's a joke
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Portraits aren't sorted yet...:p

  5. #5
    Jimmy-j's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Epic, really nice one.
    Wonder how the rest is

  6. #6

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Looking great Cant wait to see some more example of this and how it plays out in the game.
    Looking forward to Dominion of the Sword
    PSN ID: mynameisowen; add me if you play GT5 or Battlefield.

  7. #7
    Miles
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Hross View Post
    Portraits aren't sorted yet...:p
    Okay, Thanks!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Awesome work Raziel, so much depth i think i'll be able to play this game 'till i die!

    Also LoK was one of my favourite fictions

    PIPA and SOPA are “the equivalent of being angry and trying to take action against Ford just because a Mustang was used in a bank robbery.” - Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian

  9. #9
    Hengest's Avatar It's a joke
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Just wait until you see one of the big trees

  10. #10
    metsikhovne's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    there 2 guys hhave poland logo near portrait. they are kings both? :S

  11. #11

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    the one on the left is a 'former king' (the writing's a bit small in the pick!). not my tree so i'l have to let razie or Hross explain the historical why....
    Veni Vidi Velcro


  12. #12

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    @ metsikhovne

    As Tomato says, the "King Boleslaw (former King) age.38" character to the bottom left will show ingame as a former King of Poland, with the same text as any King who has died.

    He's actually the character I was referencing in my example as part of Note 3... he is Bolesław II Szczodry, a character who was King up until 1079 but was then deposed and fled the country. Although he played no further part in the faction's history, he was still alive at the time of our start date, and as such is represented as alive but off_map, meaning he cannot be controlled but merely lives on until such time as death takes him.

    If you actually click on the image above, it should link you to the picasaweb page that it's hosted on, where you can view it in its actual size (its bigger) and so make out the text clearer.

    ...history abhors a paradox

    -------------


  13. #13

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    I check this forum a time or two, and I can say that this is looking good!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty_Matt View Post
    Also LoK was one of my favourite fictions
    LoK??
    Looking forward to Dominion of the Sword
    PSN ID: mynameisowen; add me if you play GT5 or Battlefield.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisowen View Post
    LoK??
    'Legacy of Kain', 'Raziel' is the 2nd lead characrter of the series and 'history abhors a paradox' is a quote from the game

    Too bad it became apparent the writing had no structure from game 3/4 onwards =(

    PIPA and SOPA are “the equivalent of being angry and trying to take action against Ford just because a Mustang was used in a bank robbery.” - Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian

  16. #16

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Can't wait to see the next one!
    La Garde recule.






  17. #17

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty_Matt View Post
    'Legacy of Kain', 'Raziel' is the 2nd lead characrter of the series and 'history abhors a paradox' is a quote from the game

    Too bad it became apparent the writing had no structure from game 3/4 onwards =(
    And there was me thinking fans of the series had all dried up and disappeared... I doubt there are many who recognise "history abhors a paradox" as a quote!

    True about the wayward writing in 3/4 (4 more so for me), Soul Reaver was and still is a favourite ever game, the theme, story, gameplay... intro sequence was immense for the time too.

    Anways... back on topic, there should be a trip to Alba on the horizon

    ...history abhors a paradox

    -------------


  18. #18

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    UPDATE...

    The Scottish family tree has been put up for preview, cheers.

    ...history abhors a paradox

    -------------


  19. #19

    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    To me, the family trees were one of the highlights of play M2TW (I haven't played it with any regularity since PDER became defunct). I can't wait for this...wow.
    La Garde recule.






  20. #20
    The Source's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Faction Family Trees - A DotS Preview

    why does the poland tree have vannila portraits were as the scotland one has custom, im presuming that this is because the eastern europeans have yet to be completed?

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