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Thread: 3 Spartan units and the Marathon battle

  1. #41

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Its all most ready here the in game render
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    By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

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    By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

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    By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

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    By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

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    By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

  2. #42

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    very nice ! awesome pics dude

  3. #43
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Their legs were not covered??

    They look shaved too...



  4. #44
    Ryoga84's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Regarding Marathon Battle here's an assay from a strategy network. I think it's quite fair.
    'cause it's in italian, here's the sum of the fact (sorry for the poor English).

    -Numbers
    Persians: Even though some sources indicate 40.000 infantrymen and 4-6.000 cavalrymen, the more reasonable number are
    10-15.000 persian infantrymen
    1000-1500 persian cavalrymen
    3-6000 Ippia's henchmen (irregulars?)
    maybe some mercenary hoplite
    Athenian:
    9-10.000 Athenian Hoplites
    1.000 Platean Hoplites

    -Battle Formations
    The Persian landed on Marathon, where the Athenian arrived later. The Marathon plain was estemeed befitting for the Persian heavy cavalry. The two armies confronted for some days but in the end, the Athenian attacked on the 11 September.
    Interestingly Herodotus don't speak of the Persian cavalry. Probably they were on the boats (used like stables) 'cause the Persian general, Artafernes (son of the Great King) do not wanted to leave such precious troops in the open at night, or maybe they were devasting the fields around (the expedition was a vindicatory expedition, after all). But as a matter of fact, the persian cavalry never arrived on the battlefield.
    The Persian batteline is somewhat unknown. The Greek battleline was, actually, strange: for matching the long Persian line (thus avoiding encirclement, deadly for an hoplitic army) the Athenian generals weakened the centre and then reinforced the wings.
    It's unknown if this was a strategic choice or a fluke. Each battle line was long nearly 1500 m and the no-man-zone betwenn the armies was of 1500 m.

    -The Battle
    The Greek attacked, advancing swiflty, unnaturaly swiftly for a phalanx army, and sprinted the last 200 m. The sprint was probably the point for the poor prestation of the Persian archers, who hitted nearly 100 men. The Greek than clashed on the Persian line. The Greek center (already weakened) suffered, while the (reinforced) wings pushed back the Persian.
    The Persian wings routed and then the Greek wings managed to turn around (not a simple feat, if I haven't misinterpreted), attacking the Persian center (probably the toughest section of the Persian army) from three sides. After little, the Persian center routed.

    -Aftermath
    The Greek losses were 192 (assessed), while the Persian losses were from 6400 to 2000 (Herodotus says 6400, but 2000 or maybe even 1500 is a more reasonable number).
    The Greek covered the no-man-land in something like 15'. The battle lasted, from the clash of the armies to the rout of the Persian center, probably less than an hour (maybe even 20').

  5. #45
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryoga84 View Post
    Regarding Marathon Battle here's an assay from a strategy network. I think it's quite fair.
    'cause it's in italian, here's the sum of the fact (sorry for the poor English).

    -Numbers
    Persians: Even though some sources indicate 40.000 infantrymen and 4-6.000 cavalrymen, the more reasonable number are
    10-15.000 persian infantrymen
    1000-1500 persian cavalrymen
    3-6000 Ippia's henchmen (irregulars?)
    maybe some mercenary hoplite
    Athenian:
    9-10.000 Athenian Hoplites
    1.000 Platean Hoplites

    -Battle Formations
    The Persian landed on Marathon, where the Athenian arrived later. The Marathon plain was estemeed befitting for the Persian heavy cavalry. The two armies confronted for some days but in the end, the Athenian attacked on the 11 September.
    Interestingly Herodotus don't speak of the Persian cavalry. Probably they were on the boats (used like stables) 'cause the Persian general, Artafernes (son of the Great King) do not wanted to leave such precious troops in the open at night, or maybe they were devasting the fields around (the expedition was a vindicatory expedition, after all). But as a matter of fact, the persian cavalry never arrived on the battlefield.
    The Persian batteline is somewhat unknown. The Greek battleline was, actually, strange: for matching the long Persian line (thus avoiding encirclement, deadly for an hoplitic army) the Athenian generals weakened the centre and then reinforced the wings.
    It's unknown if this was a strategic choice or a fluke. Each battle line was long nearly 1500 m and the no-man-zone betwenn the armies was of 1500 m.

    -The Battle
    The Greek attacked, advancing swiflty, unnaturaly swiftly for a phalanx army, and sprinted the last 200 m. The sprint was probably the point for the poor prestation of the Persian archers, who hitted nearly 100 men. The Greek than clashed on the Persian line. The Greek center (already weakened) suffered, while the (reinforced) wings pushed back the Persian.
    The Persian wings routed and then the Greek wings managed to turn around (not a simple feat, if I haven't misinterpreted), attacking the Persian center (probably the toughest section of the Persian army) from three sides. After little, the Persian center routed.

    -Aftermath
    The Greek losses were 192 (assessed), while the Persian losses were from 6400 to 2000 (Herodotus says 6400, but 2000 or maybe even 1500 is a more reasonable number).
    The Greek covered the no-man-land in something like 15'. The battle lasted, from the clash of the armies to the rout of the Persian center, probably less than an hour (maybe even 20').

    Just to add something to this vey interesting information, the general who thought the tactic with the weakened center, was Miltiades. He holds a high place in Ancient Greek History


  6. #46
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Regarding a planned retreat, there is no evidence for this claim. Herodotus, our main source, simply states that the Athenian center was broken, fled and the barbarians pursued it inland. Anything but a planned maneuver.

  7. #47
    Ryoga84's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Quote Originally Posted by hannibalbarca13 View Post
    Just to add something to this vey interesting information, the general who thought the tactic with the weakened center, was Miltiades. He holds a high place in Ancient Greek History
    Yup, Miltiades and Callimacos (or was Callimacus? I don't remember, sorry )


    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Judah View Post
    Regarding a planned retreat, there is no evidence for this claim. Herodotus, our main source, simply states that the Athenian center was broken, fled and the barbarians pursued it inland. Anything but a planned maneuver.
    Never said anything regarding a planned retreat.
    Actually, I said the center was weakened for extending the greek battle-line (thus matching the persian's one and avoiding encirclement). The centre weakening was planned, but probably the strategoi simply hoped it could bear the persian counterattack while the wings charged through their counterparts.

    The center probably routed (I think they simply fallen back disorderly, pushed by the heavy persian center) while the Greek wings broke the Persian's one (comprised probably of light infantry), thanks to the charge's impulse.
    It was probably a case, not an ante litteram Cannae Tactic.

  8. #48

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    i agree with Ryoga84 the centre weakening was planned, and the way that the hoplites attacks they lines, running against them not has phalanx

  9. #49

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Morfeasnikos, havent you thought about making a detailed tutorial how to convert M2TW units to rome, i have also tried doing it but havent managed to do it properly. I am sure modding community would be very thankful for this as there are loads of threads asking how to convert them. This would also allow making medieval mods and more detailed units farely easily. BTW how did you made those hoplite animations as they look especially cool (like rest of the mod also).

  10. #50

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Today i have finished the hoplite, and as i say i have upload it.
    here is the link
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post10392961
    @LaurKristjan
    i cant make a tutorial because my english is very-bad...but if you want sent here a render from your try and i can help you to correct it.

  11. #51

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Acually I do not have them anymore as I had to format my computer about half a year ago and i lost everything exept my university stuff. However even a tutorial just with pictures and arrows showing how to do would work as this would be the first tutorial of a kind. BTW your english looks fine.

  12. #52
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Quote Originally Posted by morfeasnikos View Post
    Today i have finished the hoplite, and as i say i have upload it.
    here is the link
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post10392961
    @LaurKristjan
    i cant make a tutorial because my english is very-bad...but if you want sent here a render from your try and i can help you to correct it.
    Excellent Hoplitai, really nice work, so is this with the Helot rebellion script? or have I got the wrong idea

  13. #53

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    @LaurKristjan have you try to merge first, RTW models? its more easy this way. If yes and you want to deeper you must know to make a skin in 3dmax. Here is a tutorial for merging.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=181509
    @Demetrius I Poliorketes
    The file contain the homoioi and some game improvements, no rebellion script. in the future i will add more units.
    thanx

  14. #54
    Raritу's Avatar Glück auf!
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Quote Originally Posted by LaurKristjan View Post
    Morfeasnikos, havent you thought about making a detailed tutorial how to convert M2TW units to rome, i have also tried doing it but havent managed to do it properly. I am sure modding community would be very thankful for this as there are loads of threads asking how to convert them. This would also allow making medieval mods and more detailed units farely easily.

    Hm, maybe I'll make it at some points.
    Honored filly of M and happily taking my glance over Milner and Diamat

  15. #55

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    @thanx Raritу
    @Demetrius I Poliorketes i will try to add a Helot rebellion script, to the next update

    Update in post #1
    more morale, more defensive skill, and more time between the hits , in EDU. Now the battles last far more.
    and a fix to the Homoioi the spear was to high.
    Last edited by morfeasnikos; June 13, 2012 at 03:35 AM.

  16. #56
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    That would be great, thank you. Ευχαριστώ, πολύ

    Does the AI retrain in BI or is it only the ALEX exe. ? Reason I ask is I am still trying to work out best way to make battles decisive, this would involve one balanced stack for each Polis, with recruitment for further stacks difficult. Except Persia which should be able to field a slightly greater amount of troops...representing a Satraps local army.
    Last edited by Antiokhos Euergetes; June 13, 2012 at 04:43 AM.

  17. #57
    Raritу's Avatar Glück auf!
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Honored filly of M and happily taking my glance over Milner and Diamat

  18. #58

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    @Rarity Great job
    @Demetrius I Poliorketes i dont know...

  19. #59
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    Thanks morfeasnikos
    Last edited by Antiokhos Euergetes; June 20, 2012 at 02:42 PM. Reason: made mistake

  20. #60

    Default Re: The Marathon battle

    UPDATE new units skiritai, Hippeis, and some fixes in EDU. it dont need new campaing ... preview and download first page

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