3 Spartan units and the Marathon battle

[morfeasnikos]

Its all most ready here the in game render

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By morfeasnikos1 at 2012-05-31

[Bainezy]

very nice ! awesome pics dude

[Stath's]

Their legs were not covered??

They look shaved too...

[Ryoga84]

Regarding Marathon Battle here's an assay from a strategy network. I think it's quite fair.
'cause it's in italian, here's the sum of the fact (sorry for the poor English).

-Numbers
Persians: Even though some sources indicate 40.000 infantrymen and 4-6.000 cavalrymen, the more reasonable number are
10-15.000 persian infantrymen
1000-1500 persian cavalrymen
3-6000 Ippia's henchmen (irregulars?)
maybe some mercenary hoplite
Athenian:
9-10.000 Athenian Hoplites
1.000 Platean Hoplites

-Battle Formations
The Persian landed on Marathon, where the Athenian arrived later. The Marathon plain was estemeed befitting for the Persian heavy cavalry. The two armies confronted for some days but in the end, the Athenian attacked on the 11 September.
Interestingly Herodotus don't speak of the Persian cavalry. Probably they were on the boats (used like stables) 'cause the Persian general, Artafernes (son of the Great King) do not wanted to leave such precious troops in the open at night, or maybe they were devasting the fields around (the expedition was a vindicatory expedition, after all). But as a matter of fact, the persian cavalry never arrived on the battlefield.
The Persian batteline is somewhat unknown. The Greek battleline was, actually, strange: for matching the long Persian line (thus avoiding encirclement, deadly for an hoplitic army) the Athenian generals weakened the centre and then reinforced the wings.
It's unknown if this was a strategic choice or a fluke. Each battle line was long nearly 1500 m and the no-man-zone betwenn the armies was of 1500 m.

-The Battle
The Greek attacked, advancing swiflty, unnaturaly swiftly for a phalanx army, and sprinted the last 200 m. The sprint was probably the point for the poor prestation of the Persian archers, who hitted nearly 100 men. The Greek than clashed on the Persian line. The Greek center (already weakened) suffered, while the (reinforced) wings pushed back the Persian.
The Persian wings routed and then the Greek wings managed to turn around (not a simple feat, if I haven't misinterpreted), attacking the Persian center (probably the toughest section of the Persian army) from three sides. After little, the Persian center routed.

-Aftermath
The Greek losses were 192 (assessed), while the Persian losses were from 6400 to 2000 (Herodotus says 6400, but 2000 or maybe even 1500 is a more reasonable number).
The Greek covered the no-man-land in something like 15'. The battle lasted, from the clash of the armies to the rout of the Persian center, probably less than an hour (maybe even 20').

[Stath's]

Regarding Marathon Battle here's an assay from a strategy network. I think it's quite fair.
'cause it's in italian, here's the sum of the fact (sorry for the poor English).

-Numbers
Persians: Even though some sources indicate 40.000 infantrymen and 4-6.000 cavalrymen, the more reasonable number are
10-15.000 persian infantrymen
1000-1500 persian cavalrymen
3-6000 Ippia's henchmen (irregulars?)
maybe some mercenary hoplite
Athenian:
9-10.000 Athenian Hoplites
1.000 Platean Hoplites

-Battle Formations
The Persian landed on Marathon, where the Athenian arrived later. The Marathon plain was estemeed befitting for the Persian heavy cavalry. The two armies confronted for some days but in the end, the Athenian attacked on the 11 September.
Interestingly Herodotus don't speak of the Persian cavalry. Probably they were on the boats (used like stables) 'cause the Persian general, Artafernes (son of the Great King) do not wanted to leave such precious troops in the open at night, or maybe they were devasting the fields around (the expedition was a vindicatory expedition, after all). But as a matter of fact, the persian cavalry never arrived on the battlefield.
The Persian batteline is somewhat unknown. The Greek battleline was, actually, strange: for matching the long Persian line (thus avoiding encirclement, deadly for an hoplitic army) the Athenian generals weakened the centre and then reinforced the wings.
It's unknown if this was a strategic choice or a fluke. Each battle line was long nearly 1500 m and the no-man-zone betwenn the armies was of 1500 m.

-The Battle
The Greek attacked, advancing swiflty, unnaturaly swiftly for a phalanx army, and sprinted the last 200 m. The sprint was probably the point for the poor prestation of the Persian archers, who hitted nearly 100 men. The Greek than clashed on the Persian line. The Greek center (already weakened) suffered, while the (reinforced) wings pushed back the Persian.
The Persian wings routed and then the Greek wings managed to turn around (not a simple feat, if I haven't misinterpreted), attacking the Persian center (probably the toughest section of the Persian army) from three sides. After little, the Persian center routed.

-Aftermath
The Greek losses were 192 (assessed), while the Persian losses were from 6400 to 2000 (Herodotus says 6400, but 2000 or maybe even 1500 is a more reasonable number).
The Greek covered the no-man-land in something like 15'. The battle lasted, from the clash of the armies to the rout of the Persian center, probably less than an hour (maybe even 20').

Just to add something to this vey interesting information, the general who thought the tactic with the weakened center, was Miltiades. He holds a high place in Ancient Greek History

[Prince of Judah]

Regarding a planned retreat, there is no evidence for this claim. Herodotus, our main source, simply states that the Athenian center was broken, fled and the barbarians pursued it inland. Anything but a planned maneuver.

[Ryoga84]

Just to add something to this vey interesting information, the general who thought the tactic with the weakened center, was Miltiades. He holds a high place in Ancient Greek History

Yup, Miltiades and Callimacos (or was Callimacus? I don't remember, sorry )

Regarding a planned retreat, there is no evidence for this claim. Herodotus, our main source, simply states that the Athenian center was broken, fled and the barbarians pursued it inland. Anything but a planned maneuver.

Never said anything regarding a planned retreat.
Actually, I said the center was weakened for extending the greek battle-line (thus matching the persian's one and avoiding encirclement). The centre weakening was planned, but probably the strategoi simply hoped it could bear the persian counterattack while the wings charged through their counterparts.

The center probably routed (I think they simply fallen back disorderly, pushed by the heavy persian center) while the Greek wings broke the Persian's one (comprised probably of light infantry), thanks to the charge's impulse.
It was probably a case, not an ante litteram Cannae Tactic.

[morfeasnikos]

i agree with Ryoga84 the centre weakening was planned, and the way that the hoplites attacks they lines, running against them not has phalanx

[LaurKristjan]

Morfeasnikos, havent you thought about making a detailed tutorial how to convert M2TW units to rome, i have also tried doing it but havent managed to do it properly. I am sure modding community would be very thankful for this as there are loads of threads asking how to convert them. This would also allow making medieval mods and more detailed units farely easily. BTW how did you made those hoplite animations as they look especially cool (like rest of the mod also).

[morfeasnikos]

Today i have finished the hoplite, and as i say i have upload it.
here is the link
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post10392961
@LaurKristjan
i cant make a tutorial because my english is very-bad...but if you want sent here a render from your try and i can help you to correct it.

[LaurKristjan]

Acually I do not have them anymore as I had to format my computer about half a year ago and i lost everything exept my university stuff. However even a tutorial just with pictures and arrows showing how to do would work as this would be the first tutorial of a kind. BTW your english looks fine.

[Aiskhylos]

Today i have finished the hoplite, and as i say i have upload it.
here is the link
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post10392961
@LaurKristjan
i cant make a tutorial because my english is very-bad...but if you want sent here a render from your try and i can help you to correct it.

Excellent Hoplitai, really nice work, so is this with the Helot rebellion script? or have I got the wrong idea

[morfeasnikos]

@LaurKristjan have you try to merge first, RTW models? its more easy this way. If yes and you want to deeper you must know to make a skin in 3dmax. Here is a tutorial for merging.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=181509
@Demetrius I Poliorketes
The file contain the homoioi and some game improvements, no rebellion script. in the future i will add more units.
thanx

[Raritу]

Morfeasnikos, havent you thought about making a detailed tutorial how to convert M2TW units to rome, i have also tried doing it but havent managed to do it properly. I am sure modding community would be very thankful for this as there are loads of threads asking how to convert them. This would also allow making medieval mods and more detailed units farely easily.

Hm, maybe I'll make it at some points.

[morfeasnikos]

@thanx Raritу
@Demetrius I Poliorketes i will try to add a Helot rebellion script, to the next update

Update in post #1
more morale, more defensive skill, and more time between the hits , in EDU. Now the battles last far more.
and a fix to the Homoioi the spear was to high.

[Aiskhylos]

That would be great, thank you. Ευχαριστώ, πολύ

Does the AI retrain in BI or is it only the ALEX exe. ? Reason I ask is I am still trying to work out best way to make battles decisive, this would involve one balanced stack for each Polis, with recruitment for further stacks difficult. Except Persia which should be able to field a slightly greater amount of troops...representing a Satraps local army.

[Raritу]

Just done it

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post11582711

[morfeasnikos]

@Rarity Great job
@Demetrius I Poliorketes i dont know...

[Aiskhylos]

Thanks morfeasnikos

[morfeasnikos]

UPDATE new units skiritai, Hippeis, and some fixes in EDU. it dont need new campaing ... preview and download first page