Woodpecker tactics

[Robin de Bodemloze]

Has anyone tried to deliberately split up their stack and put them on opposite sides of the enemy on the campaign map BEFORE you click attack and go into the battle? AFAIK this results in the second stack emerging as reinforcements from roughly the same direction as you placed them on the campaign map?

Last night I put one general and four cav units into a separate group and attacked with the other 15 units in the stack. Turns out the AI was confused to hell by what I did and ended up being pincered in the middle.

Anyone else tried this? Thoughts on using this systematically?

(Yes, beating full stack legendary AI one-on-one is perfectly doable. I'm just investigating ways to make battles more interesting I guess)

[Erwin Rommel]

I did. First battle in the Tokugawa AND Hojo. No opportunities yet for Shingen. The mountain paths of Shinano are too constrictive.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

You reckon it makes for an effective strategem in larger battles? The AI seems to get caught in two minds when confronted with troops on both sides and end up sending indivdual units to counter my smaller army, which makes for some entertaining results. It's quite tiresome to manage two fronts though, especially with micro heavy units.

I've limited the small stack to cav only because of distance and stamina issues, so not sure how it would work with infantry units. Maybe a load of yari samurai with marathon monks would work..

[Shogun_master]

I have surrounded the enemy with two full takes. Damn Christian rebels. They attacked my attacking army and my huge stack came up from behind and crushed them in minutes. Huge moral crushing tactic

[Robin de Bodemloze]

I have surrounded the enemy with two full takes. Damn Christian rebels. They attacked my attacking army and my huge stack came up from behind and crushed them in minutes. Huge moral crushing tactic

My question was about whether to split up one stack when the AI has a roughly equivalent force, and whether forcing the AI (and you) to think on two fronts makes for better tactics/kill ratios.

I agree that two stacks are better than one

[NSFW]

Has anyone tried to deliberately split up their stack and put them on opposite sides of the enemy on the campaign map BEFORE you click attack and go into the battle?

Haven't really played since the ROTS patch, so things may have changed, but yeah, early-mid game (while I've still got more generals than I can afford armies for) I quite often do something similar with secondary generals.

AFAIK this results in the second stack emerging as reinforcements from roughly the same direction as you placed them on the campaign map?

That's generally my experience though I recall occasionally the reinforcing stacks don't come on quite where I'd have expected them too.

Last night I put one general and four cav units into a separate group and attacked with the other 15 units in the stack. Turns out the AI was confused to hell by what I did and ended up being pincered in the middle.

Anyone else tried this? Thoughts on using this systematically?

My usual pattern is a secondary general with a yari cav escort coming in on each flank. Don't generally go for coming in behind the AI with such small forces though, for fear the secondary general might get cut off & butchered.
Usually these stacks head to a position where they're supporting the flanks of my main force (& can in return receive support if needed) but how independently I let them operate depends on the situation, & especially how much cav the AI has.

The one thing I'd say is to be wary of AI forces with enough cav (especially light/yari) to maul your reinforcements; it's been a while but I'm pretty certain I've had situations where the AIs charged its Light Cav towards one of my reinforcing stacks as soon as it's entered the battle. It wasn't a major problem coming on from the flank, as I was able to get the reinforcements back to my main force before the AI cav reached them, but could see it potentially being a problem coming on directly behind the AI, if you're outnumbered and/or get pinned down long enough for his infantry to lay in too.

[Shogun_master]

My question was about whether to split up one stack when the AI has a roughly equivalent force, and whether forcing the AI (and you) to think on two fronts makes for better tactics/kill ratios.

I agree that two stacks are better than one

My bad

No I do that often. When the enemy has a bigger army. Usually I use my expandable spearmen and archers as the front line while the enemy is busy fighting them I have my samurai yari and katanas come up from behind.

[daniu]

Well it will definitely confuse the AI; it aims to align its units to face yours, so if there are two contingents against it, you can make it have a hard time making up its mind.
I never intentionally separate my army beforehand though, you can get the same effect by just splitting it during deployment.

[valky]

Sometimes the AI tries to abuse it too - even unintended and is still too stupid.

"you can get the same effect by just splitting it during deployment." (too lazy to put in a quote)

Works on maps with lots'o woods too, just hide them and go on a walk with your General he will completely focus him and re-position his army accordingly.

[Erwin Rommel]

Yes it has the same effect during deployment, however, my stacks mostly have 2 generals and I want my heir to have some more xp aside from just piggy backing to his father's glory.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

I guess having the second general gain experience is important.

How does the new reinforcement system work? The reinforcements have to come in as groups of five?

Does splitting the stack in the campaign map and deploying as separate blocks offer any practical differences? Less/more fatigue??!

[Erwin Rommel]

My army generally is one full stack that I divide with the heir and a cav contingent sweeping for a pincer movement position in the campaign map. So whenever battle commences and reinforcements come, they generally all came the same time.

Sometimes its really cool when you have a full stack of a balanced army and then you want to pursue this Shoni invasion that just landed on Echigo but barely.....juuuuuuuuuust barely reaches to it, but thanks to an ambitious wife nagging, the movement points are exhausted. Then you realize.......HEY! My cavalry can go forward while the infantry can just catch up. So I select Hojo Ujiyasu here and most of the cav to move forward and engage battle. With an ashigaru captain or better yet another retainer maybe a Daidoji leading the rest.

Of course its not woodpecker but at least you can reach out. I think Hideyoshi did something similar when relieving a siege. I think it was Oiwa Castle or is it Shizugatake. Bah.

Does splitting the stack in the campaign map and deploying as separate blocks offer any practical differences? Less/more fatigue??!

I was thinking of making an army purely with a purpose of foiling ambushes. Something cheap. But good enough to escape. Since my Hojo borders are expanding, it is inevitable that I will come in contact with the humongous Hattori who have an addiction to hiding in the forest between Lake Biwa.

[valky]

Uhm, sorry if I may may be interrupting the whole topic, but doesn't get generals level-exp only if placed outside your main-attacking-army? (not the xp, that give them more fighting ability...)
Or did I misunderstood 'things' ?


"How does the new reinforcement system work? The reinforcements have to come in as groups of five?"

They enter as soon, as one (routing-)troop is leaving the border, so just another jumps in..like in a/b/c/d/e/f/g/.../z:TW
Your unit limit in the map is 20 (unmodded) for each side, so if you have - guess I won't need to put in another example ^^

The splitting is only cool to confuse the AI at all, in case you are wondering; but you have to split your 20 stack army which is about to attack that into 2 stacks and place one of them (if possible) on the opposite side.

[daniu]

Uhm, sorry if I may may be interrupting the whole topic, but doesn't get generals level-exp only if placed outside your main-attacking-army? (not the xp, that give them more fighting ability...)

It used to be that way, but it got changed in the last patch. Now secondary generals in the same army also get XP, but less (I think 10 and 3?). They will still get 10 I think if they lead a reinforcement though.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

It used to be that way, but it got changed in the last patch. Now secondary generals in the same army also get XP, but less (I think 10 and 3?). They will still get 10 I think if they lead a reinforcement though.

I read somewhere else that the secondary generals get a quarter of the experience. Could be wrong though.

[valky]

Awesome - always learning things & thanks to both of yer. But I'll guess ill be sticking to the out-of-the-army option, as it's most likely the first retainer, which is important and thereafter the General'll be commanding its own army anyway (in my case).

Though I still don't get it, how the AI can move such crazy armies around with more than 2-3 Generals attached and all of them have nasty stars. Never seen that in E/N:TW .. (the other tw-thingies are way too long ago and even if I'm into nostalgic stuff...)