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Thread: Australian politics.

  1. #21
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    But they may lock you up for a long time in SuperMax with Ivan Milat and Bilal Skaf.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    the carbon tax is a joke. 10% is going to the UN instead of remaining in Australia. We need that money to invest in renewable energies. She obviously is hiding something trying to get it past in only three weeks with only one hearing run by the government.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-poor-nations/
    http://wakeup2thelies.com/2011/06/15...nited-nations/
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    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

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  3. #23
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    But they may lock you up for a long time in SuperMax with Ivan Milat and Bilal Skaf.
    Actually, they can't. If you read the relevant pieces of legislation, ASIO has no powers of arrest. They need the AFP to actually arrest anybody. Even then, they need a warrant to do so.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by spanish_emperor View Post
    the carbon tax is a joke. 10% is going to the UN instead of remaining in Australia. We need that money to invest in renewable energies. She obviously is hiding something trying to get it past in only three weeks with only one hearing run by the government.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-poor-nations/
    http://wakeup2thelies.com/2011/06/15...nited-nations/
    The carbon tax is an absolute joke. The one thing that has shielded Australia from the economic apocalypse of the world's financial markets is our competitive mining industry. So, this government decides to destroy it, first with a mining tax, then now a carbon tax.

    What they want to be able to do, is destroy the economy and say 'We tried capitalism, it didn't work - now we need strong socialist policies!'. But the destruction is by their own hands. And whatever you believe about the science (which is dubious) giving this government more money can never help the environment, nor affect the emissions of any other country. It is either stupidity of the highest order, or a deliberate attempt to sabotage the strong sectors of the national economy to usher in a new age of socialism. Neither is good.

    The ridiculous thing is, the people that vote for these people will be the most affected. I don't care what my energy bill is, I'll pay. I don't care what prices go up to, I can afford them. Regular people are going to realise that this carbon tax will put up the price of everything, by a lot. And every cent the big polluters have to pay in tax, will be passed onto the regular people. Who cannot pass their costs on to anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    Simon, let's be serious here for a moment. ASIO is not the Gestapo or the Stasi. They don't 'shine a spotlight in your face until you break'.
    I said they *could*......not they *did*.

    What dealings have you had with ASIO? Those removed from the justice system like to think that things in Australia are very benign. How they would know this I am not sure.

    I didn't mention ASIO, or the Stasi or the Gestapo. But, let me tell you if you are detained under that anti-terror legislation, it will not be fun.

    I think that's all I will say.

    The Director-General of ASIO can get an order to detain and question people.

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...9472/s34g.html

    If they do, you cannot ever tell anyone that this has happened to you. You also can have access to a lawyer...but only a lawyer approved by ASIO. I'm sure they would choose someone you'd like....

    Also, they can only get the warrant not from any judge...but a judge specially appointed by them for this purpose.

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...472/s34ab.html

    They wouldn't choose someone more likely to give them a detention order would they? No...surely not. If the act just said, get a warrant from the Federal Court, I'd be happier with the process. But to get a warrant only from a judge appointed by the Minister for this purpose...causes me some concern.

    PS. I have read the Act (or acts) there are a few of them.
    Last edited by Simon Cashmere; September 16, 2011 at 05:31 AM.
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    Actually I usually am (won't be this time if Abbott is still in charge). And that's my point; Abbott isn't after the liberal vote, he's after the conservative vote. Turnbull didn't destroy the party; he just decided that it was better to work with the Government when the policy was good, and oppose it when it wasn't. Hence his support of the ETS, which if the Greens had also supported, would have already been in place for a year; past the fixed price period and into the market-based mechanism.

    Abbott is simply 'Captain No' and will take every opportunity he can to screw the Government over if it means political gain. He is an opportunist more interested in being PM than he is in the good for the country. He says one thing to farmers and another to miners - statements that are directly contradictory - just to get a bump in the polls and score a few votes.

    Don't forget, Turnbull only lost the leadership by a single vote. The Liberal Party is split almost right down the middle in terms of which way it wants to go; Turnbull's liberalism or Abbotts conservatism.

    Edit:

    @boofhead: While Keating is good for humour value, I think his time has passed. The man is appearing more and more bitter that he lost after a single term as PM; unable to achieve the greatness he believes he was meant for. He is forever destined to sit as a footnote between Hawke and Howard, two men who spent years in the job and achieved great things (each in their own way).
    I am glad he is captain no.At no time in this great nations history have we had such a incompetent,inept,dysfunctional government as the Rudd/gillard leadership is.Every one of there policy's have been fail of epic proportion.The liberals need to try and block any of there brain dead ideas and lessen the damage these fools are doing until we can vote them out.

  6. #26
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushranger View Post
    I am glad he is captain no.At no time in this great nations history have we had such a incompetent,inept,dysfunctional government as the Rudd/gillard leadership is.Every one of there policy's have been fail of epic proportion.The liberals need to try and block any of there brain dead ideas and lessen the damage these fools are doing until we can vote them out.
    And replace them with what exactly? A government that has yet to articulate alternative policies on half the issues; and those it has articulated have been declared fiscally untenable?

    And not every policy has been a fail of epic proportion. I accept that they've handled the 'big ticket' items with absolute ineptitude, but legislation is still being passed.

    I think this government's problem is with perception than performance.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  7. #27

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    And replace them with what exactly? A government that has yet to articulate alternative policies on half the issues; and those it has articulated have been declared fiscally untenable?

    And not every policy has been a fail of epic proportion. I accept that they've handled the 'big ticket' items with absolute ineptitude, but legislation is still being passed.

    I think this government's problem is with perception than performance.
    True, Abbott has not detailed his alternative vision of leadership as much as i would like but to do so when so far out from the election would make him lose the initiative against the government he has at the moment,so i can understand it.

    I'm just trying to think of one good policy the ALP has come up with in the last few years and cant think of anything.The only thing i liked was the school hall program as i got to charge a extra 50% on my quotes and made some good money from it.

  8. #28
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushranger View Post
    True, Abbott has not detailed his alternative vision of leadership as much as i would like but to do so when so far out from the election would make him lose the initiative against the government he has at the moment,so i can understand it.
    That just highlights how ridiculous the current situation is. He is up against the Government without actually detailing policies! How does that work? The electorate should be ashamed of itself that it is actually looking at this man as a viable PM, and yet have no idea what he actually stands for, or what his vision for the country is.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushranger View Post
    The only thing i liked was the school hall program as i got to charge a extra 50% on my quotes and made some good money from it.
    I can't believe you just wrote that. You've just claimed to have stolen from the taxpayer, for no other reason than you could. How can you justify that?
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  9. #29

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    That just highlights how ridiculous the current situation is. He is up against the Government without actually detailing policies! How does that work? The electorate should be ashamed of itself that it is actually looking at this man as a viable PM, and yet have no idea what he actually stands for, or what his vision for the country is.



    I can't believe you just wrote that. You've just claimed to have stolen from the taxpayer, for no other reason than you could. How can you justify that?
    Its the oppositions job keep the currant government accountable which they are doing,when it comes to election time then we can see where they stand and what direction they want to take us.

    And i didn't steal a damn thing,the schools had more money then they needed and had to spend it, the whole situation was ridicules,i was actually told i was under quoting by one of them,i didn't steal from the government the government was just throwing money away and i caught some of it.

  10. #30
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushranger View Post
    Its the oppositions job keep the currant government accountable which they are doing,when it comes to election time then we can see where they stand and what direction they want to take us.
    I've always thought the job of the opposition was to present itself as an alternative government; part of which is holding the government of the day to account.

    The problem is that this opposition isn't holding the government to account; it's being deliberately obstructionist and combative to score political points. They have no intention of seeing anything get done, just so they can guarantee the government loses the next election.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushranger View Post
    IAnd i didn't steal a damn thing,the schools had more money then they needed and had to spend it, the whole situation was ridicules,i was actually told i was under quoting by one of them,i didn't steal from the government the government was just throwing money away and i caught some of it.
    Ok, so you didn't steal the money. But you did take advantage of a broken policy for your own benefit. Just because the schools had too much money is not a valid reason for a service provider to pump up their prices.

    If I did that, I'd be out on my arse for violating numerous code of conduct and ethics regulations, and likely face criminal prosecution.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  11. #31

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Cashmere View Post
    I said they *could*......not they *did*.
    Every Western nation could, yet Australia does it a lot less than others.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Seeing my two local representatives tonight, i can see why the South West of Victoria is a no go zone for any other party then the Liberals.

    Now im going to enjoy my Free Bundy

  13. #33
    Yoda Twin's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by mic1402 View Post
    I'm no longer living in Australia, but i still get to have my say right?

    Well first off, both party's are fairly stupid. Labor are lying bastards that have no real plan and make lot's of compromise's. the liberal party... abbot is a idiot to the 9th degree their polices are stupid and i don't like the liberal's policy of follow the US around like a puppy dog. labor does it to but to a lesser degree.
    What? After the failures of the '04 election, the ALP realised that it's impossible to contest the alliance with the US if they wanted to win an election. So instead of supporting to a similar length the Howard government did, they decided to all other relations we have with other states just to please the American Overlords. Look at Rudd's comments to Clinton over possible military strikes against China, just plainly ridiculous. Plus, Beazley was revealed in 2006 to promise to the US if the ALP were elected they'd gurauntee supporting the US if conflict ever rose with China. The Howard government refused to make any such appeasement in their years in government.
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  14. #34
    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    If the Opposition got rid of Abbott and his lackeys (I'm looking at you Pyne and Brandis), and brought back Turnbull, they would romp home at the next election (even though they may well do anyway).

    Abbott isn't a leader, nor is he a viable alternative to PM. He was Howard's attack dog, and has been unable to transition beyond that to an actual leader, who develops policy and creates a vision for the nation. He's still stuck in "Them Bad, We Good" attack mode.

    Turnbull is a true liberal (in the proper sense of the word); Abbott is turning the party into a US-style Conservative Party.... I don't think that will go down well with the electorate. We want an proper alternative to Labor's 'Tax, Spend, and Regulate' philosophy.

    That's not going to happen under Abbott. His Direct Action climate policy would cost tax payers billions, and is even more 'big government' than Labor's tax. His claim that he can cut 70 billion out of the budget through 'savings' is just ridiculous. 70 billion is the DoD's budget... twice! You can't find that through "savings". Howard needed to cut 8 billion when he came to power in 96 to bring us back into surplus, and that saw considerable cuts to services. There is no way Abbott can do 70 billion without bringing the country to its knees.
    This, bring back Turnbull. Abbott is such a failure it's scary that he may be our PM in 2013. Also, Allah save us if the Greens obtain any more power, as Exarch said. Abbott is a head kicker and nought else, even Costello is on the record saying that Abbott has a habit of not realising the economic consequences and costs of his actions.

    Actually, maybe you should run for party leadership?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg
    And replace them with what exactly? A government that has yet to articulate alternative policies on half the issues; and those it has articulated have been declared fiscally untenable?

    And not every policy has been a fail of epic proportion. I accept that they've handled the 'big ticket' items with absolute ineptitude, but legislation is still being passed.

    I think this government's problem is with perception than performance.
    Exactly, the NBN, the CT, Asylum seeker swap deal; all these things reek of policy on the run and heavy handedness from incompetents. They're not awful, but nothing great either.

    And yes, this government lacks authority and a sense of legitimacy, as Howard says in his biography.


    @Exarch: Why was the '09 White Paper fail? just wondering.

  15. #35
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    I think Exarch believes the White Paper to be a failure due to the fact that it specifically mentions China as a potential future threat.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

  16. #36

    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Oh dear... expect a long post rebutting pretty much everything in this thread within a few days.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Quickly, tell your Queen her subjects have been abused by the PM in penal colony.
    lol, viva la republic! my family and i are staunch republicans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda Twin View Post
    Exarch is bang on here, especially in terms of the major up Rudd has caused in the foreign policy with the '09 White Paper and the idiotic statements he made to Clinton picked up by Wikileaks. The thing that has dissapointed me about Labor so much is how fake they appear whenever they talk. At least with the liberal party you know where they stand on most issues, with labor, they say one thing in the public view, then something completely different in private.
    dayam straight +rep

    the only thing that worries me about the Liberal party is the grip the christian conservatives have on the party; other than that, Liberals know how to make money, they know how to keep oz in the black. Labor pfft, retards, the lot of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg
    I think Exarch believes the White Paper to be a failure due to the fact that it specifically mentions China as a potential future threat.
    what's wrong with neutrality? and explain to me why we need ~100 f-35s? are we looking to going to world war 3 anytime soon? and how much is that going to cost us? you do realise that analysts in recent weeks have even recommended dropping out of the f-35 program in favour of modded versions of older planes?

    Naming China as the target for all these defence acquisitions is the worst thing any politician could ever do; why? well, let's begin with the fact that they're currently our largest trading partner, are really the only thing keeping our heads above water since the GFC, and more pointedly, are the rising regional hegemon. Bush's dreams of containing China with an axis of democracies died with his presidency. Japan is in decline, and being bought off slowly by Chinese firms, South Korea needs China if it wants to own north korea and wants to keep its economy alive in the 21st century, Taiwan for all intents and purposes may become another hong kong in 2-3 decades. the filipinos are mixed in their loyalties and look to the PRC for investment and economic development, same goes for Indonesia, same in fact could go for all of ASEAN.

    you can't have good economic relations without good political relations, the sooner our geniuses in Canberra realise that, the sooner we'll all be better off. to paraphrase Hugh White, either Washington has to make room for China's rise, or face conflict where everyone loses, and not even Australia will go unscathed. y'know what, defence self reliance is one thing, being an active vassal quite another. the day we have foreign troops with bases on our soil, will be the day i enlist to kick them out, doesnt matter if they're chinese or american.
    Last edited by Exarch; September 16, 2011 at 05:13 PM.

  18. #38
    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    lol, viva la republic! my family and i are staunch republicans.
    This is most unfortunate, in the coming Monarchist- Republican civil war, I will have to kill you. Nothing personal, simply politics.


    the only thing that worries me about the Liberal party is the grip the christian conservatives have on the party; other than that, Liberals know how to make money, they know how to keep oz in the black. Labor pfft, retards, the lot of them.
    Even though I've got nothing against religion, I'm even quite interested in them, the so called 'Christian Right' is rather frightening. , the lot of them. Jesus would weep if he saw them.

    what's wrong with neutrality? and explain to me why we need ~100 f-35s? are we looking to going to world war 3 anytime soon? and how much is that going to cost us? you do realise that analysts in recent weeks have even recommended dropping out of the f-35 program in favour of modded versions of older planes?

    Naming China as the target for all these defence acquisitions is the worst thing any politician could ever do; why? well, let's begin with the fact that they're currently our largest trading partner, are really the only thing keeping our heads above water since the GFC, and more pointedly, are the rising regional hegemon. Bush's dreams of containing China with an axis of democracies died with his presidency. Japan is in decline, and being bought off slowly by Chinese firms, South Korea needs China if it wants to own north korea and wants to keep its economy alive in the 21st century, Taiwan for all intents and purposes may become another hong kong in 2-3 decades. the filipinos are mixed in their loyalties and look to the PRC for investment and economic development, same goes for Indonesia, same in fact could go for all of ASEAN.

    you can't have good economic relations without good political relations, the sooner our geniuses in Canberra realise that, the sooner we'll all be better off. to paraphrase Hugh White, either Washington has to make room for China's rise, or face conflict where everyone loses, and not even Australia will go unscathed. y'know what, defence self reliance is one thing, being an active vassal quite another. the day we have foreign troops with bases on our soil, will be the day i enlist to kick them out, doesnt matter if they're chinese or american.
    I see, these are good points. While I live by the phrase 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' I found it mildly amusing that we are expected to resist a hypothetical invasion; in 30 years time China or Indonesia would eat Australia alive and would do unto us what the Ruskie did to the Finns, albeit with no epic snow war.

    I said hypothetical, I'm not expecting a war.

  19. #39
    mic1402's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Australian politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda Twin View Post
    What? After the failures of the '04 election, the ALP realised that it's impossible to contest the alliance with the US if they wanted to win an election. So instead of supporting to a similar length the Howard government did, they decided to all other relations we have with other states just to please the American Overlords. Look at Rudd's comments to Clinton over possible military strikes against China, just plainly ridiculous. Plus, Beazley was revealed in 2006 to promise to the US if the ALP were elected they'd gurauntee supporting the US if conflict ever rose with China. The Howard government refused to make any such appeasement in their years in government.
    What other relations? the two main relations are the US and china. and china doesn't care while they get the mining money.

    why did we go into Iraq? Australia has been little more then a puppet of the US for 15 or more years. this is a quote from George W. Bush when Howard was PM: "we do not see it (Australia) as a deputy sheriff. We see it as a sheriff"

    As for china, by the time china get's some sort of hegmony over Asia the educated middle class will be quite large, and we know what happens then.

    This is most unfortunate, in the coming Monarchist- Republican civil war, I will have to kill you. Nothing personal, simply politics.
    I too, strangely am a Monarchist. I just like having the governor general a mostly non-political person. who in times of crises who can somewhat lead. the people we have currently in parliament couldn't lead a flock of geese across a street.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malzahar View Post
    This is most unfortunate, in the coming Monarchist- Republican civil war, I will have to kill you. Nothing personal, simply politics.
    may the best man win then


    Even though I've got nothing against religion, I'm even quite interested in them, the so called 'Christian Right' is rather frightening. , the lot of them. Jesus would weep if he saw them.
    i find it disturbing the inroads the christian right have made in australian politics, wanting to introduce scripture in classes, and influencing politics, ahem archbishop george pell ahem.

    I see, these are good points. While I live by the phrase 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst' I found it mildly amusing that we are expected to resist a hypothetical invasion; in 30 years time China or Indonesia would eat Australia alive and would do unto us what the Ruskie did to the Finns, albeit with no epic snow war.
    if the Chinese do plan on invading, then it's probably something they've already done. some of the oldest families in australia are Chinese, and recently,the Chinese overtook the british as the largest migrating group into oz.

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