Australian politics.

[bushranger]

OK i am just watching the Australian question time for the second time today (yes I'm just wrong)
and I'm at the point of been disgusted.

i know there is alot of opinionated Aussies on TWC and i would love to hear every Aussies or just anyone who's interested in a weird form of politicis view.

Just to start I'm from the right apart from my first vote just after the GST and i voted labor,I'm disgusted with myself to this day.

So where are you on Aussie politics?

Just some current topics I'm interested to hearing all sides from.

What do you think of the current leader/opposition leader?
how do think the last few years major policy's have gone and what would you do different?
Do you feel your leader has true leadership attributes?
what policy's do you feel are right and wrong?
Do you believe the carbon tax will benefit Australia?

Sorry if those questions are one sided but i am one sided and did my best to hold back.By all means though Aussies tell me what you think and lets debate,which is some thing missing in todays politics.

[Condottiere 40K]

I get the impression that Australian politicians don't keep their promises to the electorate, and that the government takes an inordinate amount of interest in trying to prevent Aussies from watching anything on the internet that goes against political correctness.

[bushranger]

Yeah if you simplified it down to its most pathetic point you would have a bullseye.The left say what ever will win points,the right under our latest opposition leader has a good point and just keeps repeating it.Welcome to Aussie politics,its embarrassing to any serious Aussie and just the norm to others.

[boofhead]

What do you think of the current leader/opposition leader?

They're both liars, who view politics as a career, a game. They lie sickenly with big smiles and have no shame. Julia Gillard shouldn't even be PM, she stole it from Kevin Rudd, who is just as big a cockhead as she is.

how do think the last few years major policy's have gone and what would you do different?

The Asylum seeker thing is a joke. Gillard doesn't have the balls to just admit the Coalition had it right with Nauru. She won't do that because it looks like she made a mistake. Which she did, and we all know it, she just won't admit it.

The carbon tax is massively unpopular, and she doesn't even care. She's on an ideological crusade against the will of the people and doesn't care. Unrepresentative force-feeding of a giant new tax.

Do you feel your leader has true leadership attributes?

No Australian politicians do, as they're all professional liars. That's what the Westminster system demands.

what policy's do you feel are right and wrong?

Lying.

Do you believe the carbon tax will benefit Australia?

No.

The above sentiments are why I haven't voted in 22 years. I cannot in good conscience vote for a professional liar.

[Jedi1]

I agree with most of what boofhead said apart from two things.

I think we should scrap overseas processing altogether and just do it on the mainland. The solution is really quite simply, we just need to establish efficient systems to process these peoples claims as asylum seekers in short order and once that's done our decision on what to do with them is made up for us. We are signatories of treaties which stipulate that we must accept legitimate refugees and so any we determine to be legitimate we must accept unless we withdraw from the UN conventions relation to the issue. All those who are not we simply deport to their homes again and the issue is solved.

I also disagree that our politicians currant status as a pack of professional liars is the fault of the Westminster system. I think its simply a result of the complete domination of the field by 'career' politicians and the fact that most people play along and keep voting the bastards into power, this is the problem with our modern democracy, it seems to always devolve into polarized situation with two parties and no other effective options. Both parties receive massive funds from corporate donors, unions and other interest groups that can afford large contributions and lots of lobbyists and considering this I don't trust them to do any thing more than help the special interest groups and corporations that effectively put them in their positions.

I think the best solution is what your already doing boofhead, refusing to vote until there's some one half decent to vote for, I'm not quite old enough to vote yet though. There are those whoever that argue that you don't have the right to complain if you don't vote even if all the options are crap. Even when I put to them the theoretical situation of the options being Hitler and then another Hitler exactly the same they tell me that if I didn't vote for one of them I wouldn't have the right to complain. I would argue that since I didn't vote to put the bastards in power who are wrecking the place I bare none of the responsibility for their actions and have more right to complain as opposed to those that supported them.

[Prosaic Visitant]

What do you think of the current leader/opposition leader?

I think both PM and OL are full of . Gillard lacks authority, she fails to inspire confidence (have you heard her speak? she's like a robot who babbles and loses focus) and she presides over a government that seems hellbent on being unpopular and fail. No policy it has is optimum, few are good.

Abbot lacks authority as well; few really takes him seriously. he has no policies and is full of nothing but negative spin and slogans; he is a disgrace to the conservative ideology.

TL: DR. Both parties aren't impressive right now. I lol when Americans complain about their parties, as bad as they are, at least your parties have some good ideas, hell, at least they have an idea.

how do think the last few years major policy's have gone and what would you do different?

I can't comment on the economic policies during the GFC (infusing money into schools the cash hand out etc) since I am no economist; however I would've put some mechanisms in place to better direct funding as there are plnety of reports/ articles about waste like a school that already has a good shed getting a new $250,000 shed. I would scrap the NBN (national broadband network), the internet ban list and would try and get some legislation about water security up, or at least do something about our water. Maybe reform the mess that is our asylum seeker policy, though how to do that I don't know.

Do you feel your leader has true leadership attributes?

No, but I believe Malcolm Turnbull to be a better candidate for the Liberal Party leadership (to any foreigners, the Liberal Party is our centre-right party while Labor is our centre-left).

what policy's do you feel are right and wrong?

NBN, it's flawed, uses technology that will dated in a few years, it's overly expensive and is basically the definition of a white elephant. The IRL ban list, which is claimed to protect Australians against child porn, is political as Wikileaks got hold of it and half of the websites on the list weren't kiddie porn. Anyway, banning stuff is the best way to fail in preventing naughty stuff and I believe it's wrong to let the government ban online content at will, especially when their arguments are based on emotional appeal like "IT'S FOR THE KIDS!!11". The carbon tax is fail, see below. Though I reckon the disability reform is a good idea and I'm pleased that the government hasn't taken the easy and wrong path of abandoning Afghanistan.

Do you believe the carbon tax will benefit Australia?

TL : DR. Not in it's present form, but if it was drastically reformed, then yes.


I would prevent subsidies for companies of any energy group, but would use the money from the tax to be an incentive for people to invest in alt' energy as well as invest in assisting private enterprises in converting to alt' energy. I would have a flat tax of something like $2 per tonne of CO2 to be charged on most levels of society, except pensioners, the disabled and low-incomers etc. The present tax is flawed and wont do squat; I also find it amusing that the world apparently needs Australia to 'go green', like the world will burn if we don't 'act on climate change'. Wether you believe climate change or not is meaningless, oil, coal and gas will run out sooner or later. Also, we need to get over our fear of nuclear energy.

Sorry if those questions are one sided but i am one sided and did my best to hold back.By all means though Aussies tell me what you think and lets debate,which is some thing missing in todays politics.

Indeed, and drone speeches dominate while debate and the market of ideas are missing.


Sorry for the wall of text.

I agree with most of what boofhead said apart from two things.<br />
<br />
I think we should scrap overseas processing altogether and just do it on the mainland. The solution is really quite simply, we just need to establish efficient systems to process these peoples claims as asylum seekers in short order and once that's done our decision on what to do with them is made up for us. We are signatories of treaties which stipulate that we must accept legitimate refugees and so any we determine to be legitimate we must accept unless we withdraw from the UN conventions relation to the issue. All those who are not we simply deport to their homes again and the issue is solved.<br />
<br />
I also disagree that our politicians currant status as a pack of professional liars is the fault of the Westminster system. I think its simply a result of the complete domination of the field by 'career' politicians and the fact that most people play along and keep voting the bastards into power, this is the problem with our modern democracy, it seems to always devolve into polarized situation with two parties and no

Yes, end off shore processing, it's expensive and doesn't have any benefit beyond a placebo or appearing to deter smuggler scum.

Indeed, career politicans and ideological exhaustion are to blame more than any structual problem. If we can have people like Menzies, Howard, Whitlam, Keating and Hawke it is proof the system can work.

[SLN445]

On a federal level, i cant stand either Major party and the smaller partys are just as bad.
The labour party needs to get out NOW, they have been a complete up... the problem is there is no one good enough to replace them.


I actualy find the Liberal party in my local area to be half decent though which is why our area is probley considered a "Liberal safe seat", going to be serving drinks to Denis Napthine and Dan Tehan tonight .

[Exarch]

OK i am just watching the Australian question time for the second time today (yes I'm just wrong)
and I'm at the point of been disgusted.

i know there is alot of opinionated Aussies on TWC and i would love to hear every Aussies or just anyone who's interested in a weird form of politicis view.

Just to start I'm from the right apart from my first vote just after the GST and i voted labor,I'm disgusted with myself to this day.

So where are you on Aussie politics?

i am also disgusted at having voted labor last elections, when we voted in kevin rudd. from now on, i shall never vote labor. ever. again. it's liberal for me all the way. the greens, incompetant douchebags who are so out of touch with reality it's scary to think of them in power.

Just some current topics I'm interested to hearing all sides from.

What do you think of the current leader/opposition leader?

gillard is meh, lukewarm, but anyone after rudd is better. rudd was the worst PM in australian history, on the order of billy hughes worst PM.

how do think the last few years major policy's have gone and what would you do different?

no major complaints except for the incompetant in chief's 2009 white paper on defence; major diplomatic phail on that regard.

what would i do different? i'm of the same mind as James Ingram:

In my view a policy of eventual explicit neutrality might best serve the national interest by recognising the reality that Australia is an isolated Western nation, with no historical enemies, distant from mainland Asia, and without a strategically-significant location.

Neutrality would mean that Australia could avoid involvement in conflict between the US and China while increasing its capacity to help diminish the risk of such conflict. Movement to neutrality is best done in stages over time. First, current rhetoric about the centrality of the American alliance should be dropped. Second, all policies should be decided in the light of a hard-headed assessment of Australia’s national interest. Decision makers must break from the ‘Anglosphere’ assumption at the root of current policy, namely the congruence of Australian and American political and strategic goals. Specifically, Australia should stand aside from American balance of power initiatives to contain China. Third, Australia must refrain from new defence commitments. A next and difficult step is for Australia to extricate itself from existing military and intelligence links with the US, such as Pine Gap. Eventually, withdrawal from ANZUS and adoption of a foreign policy based on an explicit declaration of neutrality could be appropriate.

Source: http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/08...oreign-policy/

Do you feel your leader has true leadership attributes?

no

what policy's do you feel are right and wrong?

well, where do i start lol.

Do you believe the carbon tax will benefit Australia?

not really i'm fairly sceptical.

[hellheaven1987]

Quickly, tell your Queen her subjects have been abused by the PM in penal colony.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

I'm ashamed of Australian politics. Parties don't have clear values (except maybe Labour's union association), but they just take whatever side on a debate they think is favorable at the time.

[boofhead]

I'm ashamed of Australian politics. Parties don't have clear values (except maybe Labour's union association), but they just take whatever side on a debate they think is favorable at the time.

..and the opposition just takes a contrary stance, bipartisanship is extremely rare, except when it comes to going to war with our American idols.

[Yoda Twin]

i am also disgusted at having voted labor last elections, when we voted in kevin rudd. from now on, i shall never vote labor. ever. again. it's liberal for me all the way. the greens, incompetant douchebags who are so out of touch with reality it's scary to think of them in power.


gillard is meh, lukewarm, but anyone after rudd is better. rudd was the worst PM in australian history, on the order of billy hughes worst PM.


no major complaints except for the incompetant in chief's 2009 white paper on defence; major diplomatic phail on that regard.

what would i do different? i'm of the same mind as James Ingram:

Source: http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/08...oreign-policy/


no


well, where do i start lol.

not really i'm fairly sceptical.

Exarch is bang on here, especially in terms of the major up Rudd has caused in the foreign policy with the '09 White Paper and the idiotic statements he made to Clinton picked up by Wikileaks. The thing that has dissapointed me about Labor so much is how fake they appear whenever they talk. At least with the liberal party you know where they stand on most issues, with labor, they say one thing in the public view, then something completely different in private.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

..and the opposition just takes a contrary stance, bipartisanship is extremely rare, except when it comes to going to war with our American idols.

Yep. I think of it as oppositionism.

[Dr Zoidberg]

If the Opposition got rid of Abbott and his lackeys (I'm looking at you Pyne and Brandis), and brought back Turnbull, they would romp home at the next election (even though they may well do anyway).

Abbott isn't a leader, nor is he a viable alternative to PM. He was Howard's attack dog, and has been unable to transition beyond that to an actual leader, who develops policy and creates a vision for the nation. He's still stuck in "Them Bad, We Good" attack mode.

Turnbull is a true liberal (in the proper sense of the word); Abbott is turning the party into a US-style Conservative Party.... I don't think that will go down well with the electorate. We want an proper alternative to Labor's 'Tax, Spend, and Regulate' philosophy.

That's not going to happen under Abbott. His Direct Action climate policy would cost tax payers billions, and is even more 'big government' than Labor's tax. His claim that he can cut 70 billion out of the budget through 'savings' is just ridiculous. 70 billion is the DoD's budget... twice! You can't find that through "savings". Howard needed to cut 8 billion when he came to power in 96 to bring us back into surplus, and that saw considerable cuts to services. There is no way Abbott can do 70 billion without bringing the country to its knees.

[mic1402]

I'm no longer living in Australia, but i still get to have my say right?

Well first off, both party's are fairly stupid. Labor are lying bastards that have no real plan and make lot's of compromise's. the liberal party... abbot is a idiot to the 9th degree their polices are stupid and i don't like the liberal's policy of follow the US around like a puppy dog. labor does it to but to a lesser degree.
TLDR: both party's suck and have no concept of leadership. it's like choosing between death by shark or death by tiger. it doesn't matter which one you choose you will still die. just in a slightly different way.

5 other things:

1. say what you want about rudd, the plan worked. Australia got through the GFC relatively Unscathed compared to a lot of other countries.

2. the Illegal immigrants problem has been blown way out of proportion. the amount of Illegal immigrant's Australia get's is TINY compared to the rest of the world and must refuges get here by plane anyway.

3. the green's started out good but they have the problem that there voter base is small so they have to try to appeal to as many people as possible as such will become more and more populist.

4. I find it funny that the nationals say there for the small farmer, but they are with the liberal's who support the corporations who are screwing the farmers over.

5. Australia's position toward's the rest of the pacific is really quite selfish, it's like they view themselves as part of the big boys club and have no time for little island nations.

also I've come up with a theory, you see the politicans here are less bad then the one's in Australia and the one's in Australia are less bad then the ones in the US. so the theory is that the less a politicans control the less they are.

[bushranger]

If the Opposition got rid of Abbott and his lackeys (I'm looking at you Pyne and Brandis), and brought back Turnbull, they would romp home at the next election (even though they may well do anyway).

Abbott isn't a leader, nor is he a viable alternative to PM. He was Howard's attack dog, and has been unable to transition beyond that to an actual leader, who develops policy and creates a vision for the nation. He's still stuck in "Them Bad, We Good" attack mode.

Turnbull is a true liberal (in the proper sense of the word); Abbott is turning the party into a US-style Conservative Party.... I don't think that will go down well with the electorate. We want an proper alternative to Labor's 'Tax, Spend, and Regulate' philosophy.

That's not going to happen under Abbott. His Direct Action climate policy would cost tax payers billions, and is even more 'big government' than Labor's tax. His claim that he can cut 70 billion out of the budget through 'savings' is just ridiculous. 70 billion is the DoD's budget... twice! You can't find that through "savings". Howard needed to cut 8 billion when he came to power in 96 to bring us back into surplus, and that saw considerable cuts to services. There is no way Abbott can do 70 billion without bringing the country to its knees.

I take it your not a liberal voter lol.I have no idea how people can think turnbull is a good liberal leader,he nearly destroyed the party.At the time when he was leading nearly every liberal voter including myself absolutely hated the guy.He did not hold the government to account and had no alternative view of the way Australia should be governed.I think he would be a great ALP leader,he is a lefty and has no place in the liberal party.

At the time when he was been challenged i didn't really think abbot would be a good leader,he didn't have a friendly persona and i thought he was to far to the right,but he was better then hockey IMO because hockey supported a ETS which is the reason we booted turnbull out.
I was wrong Abbott has been fantastic,he completely turned the polls around and nearly won a unwinnable election.He is no Howard but he has been good.The only bad policy he has is the direct action plan which he cant do much about,and to be honest if he gets into power it will be changed and toned down.

[boofhead]

I suppose there is some comedy value in it, but it's a bloody expensive way to get a laugh:

Paul Keating:

On John Hewson:

He’s like a shiver waiting for a spine
Debating with him is like being flogged by a warm lettuce
A feral abacus
The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly (after Hewson asked him why he wouldn’t call an early election)

On Andrew Peacock:

A souffle doesn’t rise twice

On Wilson Tuckey:

He’d be flat out counting past ten

On John Howard:

He’s like a lizard on a rock, alive but looking dead
A desiccated coconut
What we have got is a dead carcass, swinging in the breeze, but nobody will cut it down to replace him.
…the brain-damaged Leader of the Opposition…
But I will never get to the stage of wanting to lead the nation standing in front of the mirror each morning clipping the eyebrows here and clipping the eyebrows there with Janette and the kids: It’s like ‘Spot the eyebrows’.
From this day onwards, Howard will wear his leadership like a crown of thorns, and in the parliament I’ll do everything to crucify him (speaking of his 1986 leadership)

On Jeff Kennett spending over $20 million on office renovations:

He’s into squalor. He can’t afford an ambulance if you have a heart attack. He can’t afford lavatories at railway stations. He’s got the Treasury done up like the Reichstag.

Mark Latham:

On Bob Carr:

A-grade a-sehole.

To former immigration minister Philip Ruddock:

Hand in your badge, Adolf.

On Howard:

Howard is an a-se-licker. He went over there, kissed some bums, and got patted on the head.
Description of Prime Minister John Howard’s trip to the United States: John Howard has forgotten how to be a good Australian, not some yes-man to a flaky and dangerous American president.
On the government: There they are a conga line of suck holes on the conservative side of politics.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2007/07/11/...a-crikey-list/

[Dr Zoidberg]

Actually I usually am (won't be this time if Abbott is still in charge). And that's my point; Abbott isn't after the liberal vote, he's after the conservative vote. Turnbull didn't destroy the party; he just decided that it was better to work with the Government when the policy was good, and oppose it when it wasn't. Hence his support of the ETS, which if the Greens had also supported, would have already been in place for a year; past the fixed price period and into the market-based mechanism.

Abbott is simply 'Captain No' and will take every opportunity he can to screw the Government over if it means political gain. He is an opportunist more interested in being PM than he is in the good for the country. He says one thing to farmers and another to miners - statements that are directly contradictory - just to get a bump in the polls and score a few votes.

Don't forget, Turnbull only lost the leadership by a single vote. The Liberal Party is split almost right down the middle in terms of which way it wants to go; Turnbull's liberalism or Abbotts conservatism.

Edit:

@boofhead: While Keating is good for humour value, I think his time has passed. The man is appearing more and more bitter that he lost after a single term as PM; unable to achieve the greatness he believes he was meant for. He is forever destined to sit as a footnote between Hawke and Howard, two men who spent years in the job and achieved great things (each in their own way).

[Simon Cashmere]

I get the impression that Australian politicians don't keep their promises to the electorate, and that the government takes an inordinate amount of interest in trying to prevent Aussies from watching anything on the internet that goes against political correctness.

Not really. They are mostly worried about national security style things (re Islamic terror) and x-rated sites. They don't care about what people are saying about political correctness. Terror is a different thing.

No Miranda here. No Bill of rights. In many cases, no right to silence. If you are arrested here under the anti-terror legislation, they can hold you with a spotlight shone into your face until you break.

And everybody breaks.

Actually I usually am (won't be this time if Abbott is still in charge). And that's my point; Abbott isn't after the liberal vote, he's after the conservative vote. Turnbull didn't destroy the party; he just decided that it was better to work with the Government when the policy was good, and oppose it when it wasn't. Hence his support of the ETS, which if the Greens had also supported, would have already been in place for a year; past the fixed price period and into the market-based mechanism.

I was going to say some things about this but thought better of it.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Simon, let's be serious here for a moment. ASIO is not the Gestapo or the Stasi. They don't 'shine a spotlight in your face until you break'.