How do you reconcile one of the countries with the most hours worked per person with laziness?Originally Posted by Nikitn
Re: Euro Crisis
How do you reconcile one of the countries with the most hours worked per person with laziness?
Praeses
Re: Euro Crisis
By showing the very bad productivity. Someone who sits on the computer all day at work has high work hours, but low productivity.
Re: Euro Crisis
Hey man, I do alright and I have the P&L to prove it.
But yeah, you're scraping the barrel here. Laziness clearly isn't the issue.
Breatannach Romanus
Re: Euro Crisis
Lets see some facts:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/05/29/...s-and-leaders/
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...c06c010184c684European Unity on the Rocks
Chapter 4. Views of EU Countries and Leaders
The euro crisis has hit the southern European nations surveyed (Greece, Italy and Spain) much harder than the northern (Britain, France and Germany) or eastern countries, (Poland and the Czech Republic). But it is Greece’s reputation, more than that of Italy and Spain, that has suffered the most in the eyes of the public. German Chancellor Angela Merkel receives the highest marks among leading European officials for her handling of the euro crisis, except in Greece. And Germans are among the most judgmental of Greece. The Spanish are the most critical of themselves while the Greeks are the least self-critical.
Germany Favored, Greece Not
Germany is the most respected EU country among those nations surveyed. Roughly eight-in-ten people in France (84%), the Czech Republic (80%) and Poland (78%) hold a favorable view of Germany. The Greeks, however, are harshly critical of Germany. Only 21% have a positive view of Germany, while 78% have an unfavorable view. Berlin’s hard line in dealing with the euro crisis may have cost it some support among its fellow EU members. Germany’s favorability is down 10 points in Spain since 2011, down six points in France and Britain.
France is also held in high regard. Overwhelming majorities in Germany (80%), Poland (76%) and the Czech Republic (74%) express a positive view of France. Only the Greeks (54%) and the Italians (53%) are sparing in their praise. However, in a possible sign of intra-European tension as a result of the euro crisis, positive Italian assessment of France has fallen 20 percentage points since 2007, as has favorable sentiment toward France in the Czech Republic (-11) and Spain (-9).
Strong majorities in seven of the eight countries surveyed have a favorable view of Britain, including 84% in the Czech Republic and 83% in Poland. And these views are largely unchanged from 2007. Only in Greece do people lack enthusiasm: just 37% of Greeks see Britain in a good light.
Spain is broadly popular. About seven-in-ten or more people in most of the countries surveyed have a favorable opinion of Spain, including 76% in Poland, 74% in Britain and 72% in Greece. The Italians (59%) evidence less enthusiasm.
Despite its recent troubles, roughly two-thirds of Europeans surveyed have a positive view of Italy, including 67% of the British, 67% of the French and 66% of the Germans. Only the Spanish, at 58%, are slightly less supportive. But in a sign that Italy’s problems may have affected other Europeans’ views of the country, the Polish assessment is down 15 points from 2010, as is the Spanish (-11), the French (-10), and the British rating (-6). Italy fares relatively poorly among its own people in opinions of the country: 57% of Italians rate their nation favorably.
Among the major European countries, Greece is clearly the least popular. And its reputation is slipping. In no country, other than Greece itself, is there a majority with a favorable view of Greece. Only 25% of the Czech’s have a positive opinion of the Aegean nation. Polish favorable rating of Greece has fallen 28 points since 2010, Spanish ratings of Greece are down 16 points and favorability of Greece among the British has declined 12 points. Just 27% of Germans see Greece in a positive light and that is down 13 points from 2010. In France, 45% judge Greece favorably, down 20 points from 2010. Contrary to the views of other Europeans, 71% of the Greeks have a favorable view of their own country.
Merkel Highly Respected
German Chancellor Angela Merkel is widely seen as the most effective national leader in dealing with the European economic crisis. Eight-in-ten Germans say she is doing a good job, as do about three-quarters of the French (76%) and two-thirds of the Czechs (67%), Poles (66%) and British (66%).
In Germany, Merkel is significantly more popular among older people than among the young, but in other European nations her appeal cuts across generations. Notably, there is no significant gender gap in her appeal. Her efforts are appreciated equally by men and women. In most countries, Merkel is popular across ideological lines, including support by 78% of Germans on the left. The French left is not nearly as appreciative, a difference that bears watching with a new left-of-center government in Paris. Only 54% of French respondents from the left think she is doing a good job with the crisis, 32 points lower than the approval she gets from the French right. Only in Greece (84%) does a majority think Merkel has performed poorly in the crisis. And they are harshly critical: 57% of Greeks say she has done a very bad job.
Recently ousted French president Nicholas Sarkozy might have fared better running in Germany than in France. While in the run-up to his re-election campaign, 56% of his fellow countrymen thought Sarkozy had done a good job dealing with the European economic crisis, 75% of the Germans thought he was handling the crisis well. Sarkozy may have fared less well in other European countries, lacking majority approval of his crisis performance in Poland (49%), Britain (46%), the Czech Republic (43%) and Italy (36%). But the Greeks are his toughest graders; only 17% say Sarkozy is doing a good job.
British Prime Minister David Cameron comes in for similar criticism. Only 16% of Greeks and 28 % of Germans approve of his handling of the European economic crisis. And only 51% of his own people think he is doing a good job. The French see Cameron differently; 59% approve of his performance. In a number of countries, however, Cameron’s name recognition is so low that many respondents did not voice an opinion about him.
The leaders of the other European countries surveyed come in for the most criticism. In three of the other five countries, a strong majority thinks their own leader is doing a poor job reacting to the European economic troubles. This includes Poland, where 69% criticize Prime Minister Donald Tusk; the Czech Republic, where 69% are disdainful of the efforts of Prime Minister Petr Necas; and Greece, where 62% think Prime Minister Lucas Papademos is doing a bad job. In Spain, 50% give Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy bad marks, while 45% approve of how he is handling the crisis. The Italian public is also divided on their leader’s performance: 44% say Prime Minister Mario Monti is doing a bad job, 48% say a good job.
Germans Viewed as Honest and Hardworking, Southerners Viewed Negatively
When asked to name who they think are the hardest working Europeans, the Germans are the overwhelming choice. The French (86%) hold the German work ethic in high regard, as do the Spanish (77%) and the Germans themselves (80%). Like the Germans, many respondents also give themselves high marks. The French (69%), in particular, claim to be hardworking and, to a lesser extent, so do the Poles (46%) and the British (43%). The Greeks have a similarly favorable view of their own industriousness. They are more likely to name themselves (60%) as hard workers than they are to cite the Germans (45%) or any other nationality.
Europeans are also in agreement as to who are the least hardworking among them: it’s the southern Europeans, and especially the Greeks. The Germans (60%) are harsh judges of Greek work habits, but so are the Czechs (58%), French (53%) and the Poles (50%). The French are equally judgmental of the Italians (58%) and the Spanish (50%). And even Italians and Spanish are likely to name their own countrymen and women among the least hardworking Europeans. Greeks are not so self-critical. Only 14% call themselves lazy. Instead, they name the Italians (24%), the French (23%) and the Germans (19%) as less industrious.
In all eight countries surveyed, the Italians and the Greeks rank in the top three mentioned as the most corrupt. But it is the Italians who come in for particular criticism. About three-quarters (76%) of the French say the Italians are dishonest, as do 63% of the Spanish and 60% of the Germans. People often also see themselves as the most corrupt, particularly in Italy (65%) and Spain (63%). The Greeks share this self-critique. About half (52%) of Greeks say that corruption is most widespread among their fellow citizens.
Germans are seen as the least corrupt people in the European Union, followed by the British and the Swedes. The Germans (54%) and the French (46%) have a particular high regard for their own integrity. At the same time, respondents outside of northern Europe are more self-critical. About one-in-ten or fewer people in Spain, Italy, Greece, Poland, and the Czech Republic say their countrymen and women are the least corrupt.
Also Greece is the 8th less productiveStereotypes of Europe
May 30th 2012, 16:13 by J.S. | LONDON
ONCE in a while an opinion poll throws up an insight that is very revealing; yesterday it was the Pew Global survey of European countries. Among the usual questions about attitudes to the euro and the European Union, people in eight nations (Britain, France, Germany, the Czech Republic, Greece, Italy, Poland and Spain) were asked which country in the European Union is the hardest-working. The Greeks ignored the obvious answer (Germany) and instead nominated themselves. (The other seven nations all plumped for Germany, as the table shows.) Yet Greek perception is not quite as misaligned with reality as it seems. Greece does actually work the longest hours in Europe, as this graphic of OECD data shows. However, as any economist will tell you, working longer does not equate with higher productivity, and Greece's productivity is relatively low. The country's predicament is also hindered by corruption. It is viewed as having the second-highest level of corruption after Italy, though Greeks reckon their country is the most corrupt of all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304
From my experience British are the most supporting for the Greek people while Germans hold the worst idea for Greeks and this can also be shown in the fact that the German tourists are 40-50% less in Greece this year....
Last edited by neoptolemos; June 12, 2012 at 06:46 AM.
Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
Luís de Camões
Campidoctor
Re: Euro Crisis
ehm.. yeah I have heard that humbug before. They are trying to make Latvia look like a success story - the reality is the opposite. It's like calling the great depression of the 30:s a big success.
Latvia suffered the worst output losses in the world during the world financial crisis and recession of 2008-2009, sacrificing nearly a quarter of its national income at the altar of austerity. Even worse, unemployment rose from 5.3% to over 20% of the labor force. And if you count the people who dropped out of the labor force or were involuntarily working part-time, unemployment/underemployment peaked at more than 30%.
But even that doesn't measure the extent of the suffering that Latvians have endured. About 10% of the labor force left the country, many never to come back. The Latvian economy grew by 5.5% last year, but is projected to grow by just 2% this year – a sluggish recovery for a country that fell so far into a hole. Much worse, unemployment is still brutally high at 16.3% for the official rate, and 23.6% for the broader measure noted above. IMF projections show Latvia taking a full decade to reach its pre-crisis GDP.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/07/christine-lagarde-perverse-praise-latvia-economic-success
If you also include the demographic disaster they are going through (population -13% in just a decade) - Then it's clear that it's far from any success
Re: Euro Crisis
Couple of points:
1) This source is purely an opinion piece of an individual economist
2) By the source's own admission Latvia is now in growth.
Praeses
Re: Euro Crisis
Argh sorry, I meant surfing the web and doing pointless. Naturally there's nothing wrong with working in-front of a PC.
Regardless, you may have your opinion but the fact remains: Greece is utterly uncompetitive today, let alone before 2009. Hard-working countries aren't uncompetitive.
Last edited by Nikitn; June 12, 2012 at 08:48 AM.
Re: Euro Crisis
Except for Greece, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Czech Republic... in fact if anything there's quite the correlation against you here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304
Praeses
Re: Euro Crisis
They're hard-working and unproductive, but also competitive.
Latvia had a massive deficit (22% of gdp in 2007) and economical problems, but managed to shape-up and pull out of it. The result is that the situation is improving, with high growth foretasted (btw, the 2% growth is an old estimate the author uses 4 propaganda). And Latvia even protected its creditors from currency devaluation, thus securing market-funding instead of siphoning money from the EU like a leech (<-- that's solidarity btw).
This story, along with Ireland's and Iceland's, just show that a disciplined country can successfully carry out austerity.
PS: As for the GDP thing - pointless measurement, as the population decreased. Measured in GDP per capita, Latvia is on its way to regain the pre-2008 one.
Re: Euro Crisis
Now you're just making stuff up. None of those countries rank in the top 30 for the Global Competitiveness Report:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...iveness_Report
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Euro Crisis
I had no idea. Thanks. +rep
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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Artifex
Re: Euro Crisis
Tut Tut Platon, One must not mention so called success stories.
Latvia I believe a huge chunk of its population had to flee the country to find a job and something to eat.
Ireland is a success too measured against Latvia, Our exports have risen year by year since the crisis of 08 started.
We too are exporting the jobless as fast as possible, It keeps the unemployment numbers down.
Most of those who have left have gone to Australia, An historical place for the Irish.
We have not yet got round to useing the courts again to deport them .
Give us time.
sponsered by the noble Prisca
Semisalis
Re: Spain to get EU rescue funds, officially now
More like Europeans.
All you have to do is to decide what to do with the time given to you.
Re: Euro Crisis
It doesn't grow on trees, it grows on printing machines
Campidoctor
Re: Euro Crisis
Thanx Magpie. But I think Ferrets and Nikitn know better than you about your own country. Come on, admit it. The Irish are proud of the austerity, and they are convinced they're on the right way to recovery
Artifex
Re: Euro Crisis
Hi Platon, There are some Irish who are proud of the Governments austerity drive and are very happy to see cuts in social spending and wage reductions. They believe it will increase Irelands competiveness in the export markets. Now this maybe true, However the big problem is our export industries, mainly food,chemicals, high teq ect do not employ a lot of people relative to the overall adult population.
The cuts in social spending are approved because they keep the income tax levels low for the higher earner,s and as this group have not suffered from the austerity measures they are fairly happy.
99% of the Irish are very unhappy with the very bad decision to bailout all the banks and take on all their debts some 200billion euro,s and growing. The ECB continues to pump money into these institutions to keep them afloat, The money of course adds to the national debt as the state has taken on their liabilities. Some of these banks are just shells and do not trade. The other,s are not lending to ordinary commercial business,s and are charging punitive rates of interest on overdrafts even if they allow a business to have one. So the domestic economy is in a very bad way. Also the level of property mortgage defaults is rising fairly rapidly leading to more problems for the banks and the state.
So Ireland has a good small export sector, A government who has to keep cutting expenditure and cannot invest, but is having to raise extra money from the general population by imposing new forms of taxation on it, sucking more money from the general economy. A dysfunctional banking system. A high rate of unemployment and emmigration. But we have a Baby boom
sponsered by the noble Prisca
Re: Euro Crisis
Why would you know more about your own country just by virtue of living there? In my view it only makes people hopelessly biased and myopic.Thanx Magpie. But I think Ferrets and Nikitn know better than you about your own country. Come on, admit it. The Irish are proud of the austerity, and they are convinced they're on the right way to recovery
Primicerius
Re: Euro Crisis
If money was still all that paper stuff you get out of ATM machines, the present crises would have been that much less likely to have happened. In the old days when currencies such as the Lira devalued almost on a monthly basis. It kind of acted as a restraint on spending if you need an ever bigger wallet to carry your weekly wages around.The greater use of electronic spending and the use of a Euro currency that was a lot more stable than your previous currency, gave a greater impetus to borrow and spend. But the borrowing and the property speculation that went with it, in countries such as Spain and Ireland, has been a complete disaster for their economies.It doesn't grow on trees, it grows on printing machines
Yesterday Spain's borrowing costs have risen to the highest rate since the launch of the Euro in 1999 The facts behind the sneaky bailout of the banks done over the weekend and hailed by finance ministers and officials across Europe as a masterstroke, is today viewed with a great deal more sober reflection after careful analysis.
I believe the Euro currency cannot be sustained in its present form.Borrowing ever increasing sums of money to keep it afloat is just prolonging the agony and digging European countries in an ever deeper pit of despair to get out of. I cynically laugh at all those who continue to have any faith in this currency or the incompetent and inept European politicians who are unable to deal with this crises. The fact that the Spanish government denied all rumors that they were about to seek a bail out for their banks and then announced the deal on Saturday when the money markets had closed, in a pathetic attempt to prevent yesterday's devaluation says it all, although it did work for a day.
With Italy's finances on shaky ground without another probable bailout due to their increasing borrowing costs, which have escalated by another 5% in the last few months, and a Greek election that will in all probability return a anti austerity party, the end of the Euro can't be far off. One thing is for certain is that the longer this pathetic nonsense goes on, the harder will be the fall of Europe's economies and these will not just be within Southern Europe. In fact the implications are already severely effecting countries such as India and China.
There is an alternative solution however and one some say we were told about for some time, but I guess our politicians neglected to pass on the message to their constituents, that is a politically unified Europe with a central system of fiscal control. Well if recreating Republican Rome in Brussels is to your fancy than you will be pleased . But history tells us that the transfer of powere from a collection of deceitful politicians to an Emperor is a short one and Europe could then at least talk on equal terms to the Russians and Chinese I suppose
Artifex
Re: Euro Crisis
naughty Ferrets.
sponsered by the noble Prisca
Primicerius
Re: Euro Crisis
maybe because you live there and you feel what happen in the country and you know more the culture of the people.unless you thing because you saw some numbers in a report you know greece then you fool your self
When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?”
― Robert E. Howard
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