Thread: Euro Crisis

  1. #2741

    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    Bad image.

    Corrected:





    From left to right: PASOK, ND, (the two 'bigs') KKE (communists), LAOS (right), SYRIZA (left), Ecologists, Democratic Left (new party, left), Democratic Alliance (new party, center-right), Golden Dawn (far-right), Independent Greeks (new party, center-right), ANTARSYA (far left), DRASI (new party).
    Way too many left wing parties with relatively big numbers for my tastes. But then again, I guess anybody but the two major and the commies will do at this point.

  2. #2742
    Hobbes's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    So you consider that your avatar has a negative meaning?

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  3. #2743
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by clone View Post
    kamenos ftw i wonder if Laos will fall under 2% (it realy deserves it)
    Kammenos will be my choice. I don't care about his past, I like him because he stayed true to his beliefs and he was the first to leave the party of ND, when the polls showed that it would achieve clear superiority in the parliament. He took his risk and here he is, with his own anti-IMF party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes. View Post
    Oh come on, even Antarsya is there. Why is the left so damn fragmented? Why don't they realize that they have power and unite to do something? They would need to stop saying some of their of course. 1400 lowest salary . Who are they kidding?
    Unfortunately, only SYRIZA has asked for a united Left front against PASOK and ND. KKE and Democratic Left still want to promote their micro-politic agenda, instead of addressing the main problem -out with the IMF. With this mess, 7-8 or even 9 political parties in the parliament, there's gonna be chaos. The country will just descend in anarchy.
    Last edited by Manuel I Komnenos; April 11, 2012 at 09:00 PM.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  4. #2744
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Manuel... Here are my predictions:

    Alhoon's predictions for May 2012:

    Pasok: about 22-23%
    ND: about 28-30%
    KKE: About 10-11%
    Syriza: About 6-7%
    Democratic Left: About 7-8%
    Independant Greeks: About 8-10%
    Laos: 4-5%
    Xrisi Augi: 3-4% (God help us all, I believe they will make it in)
    Ecologists: 2-4%


    As for Democratic left: So far I like that they're the "intelectual left" that doesn't want to burn down the country, bash heads and clash with the police forces on the streets. I think they stay appart because while their ideology and goals are close with Syriza, their methods are different.

    However, I can't say that I would vote for them, at least not yet. So far we have like a billion parties and I can't vote any of them.
    I may end up taking a blank ballot and write "Obama" on it.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 12, 2012 at 12:14 AM.
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  5. #2745
    Platon's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acco View Post
    Is that seriously what they will do or are you exaggerating? If it is their platform, their current position doesn't really fit their history. The relationship between the KKE and NOF (Macedonian nationalist army in Greece) was very complicated and I think the KKE had settled for 'autonomy' and not independence for Aegean Macedonia, which they were trying to argue in that quote I posted earlier.
    You can safely disregard the crap you responded to. The guy is an anti communist with absolutely no clue of KKE:s program.
    You must understand the communist position, and their internationalist agenda, before you can comment.
    KKE has always been branded as traitors to the Greek state, wich is absolutely laughable considering they were the only ones fighting against the Nazi occupation in ww2, while the others - mainly the 2 big parties - sold out the country!
    Last edited by Platon; April 12, 2012 at 05:36 AM.

  6. #2746
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Methink,s help is on the horizon regarding the great austerity experiment within the eurozone.

    The answer I think lies with Spain and its present troubles.

    The markets are waking up to the fact that austerity is killing any prospect of recovery within large sections of the eurozone.

    This policy is beginning to make it more likely that countries will be forced into default rather than repaying debt.

    The euro v the dollar exchange rate is maintaining a sort of balance due to the massive printing race that is going on.

    However with oil prices increasing, pressure grows on western economies leading to greater declines in domestic economies.

    Its time for our Dear Leader,s to come up with plan B.

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  7. #2747
    Platon's Avatar Campidoctor
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    The only plan that is left is that the ECB steps in and buy Govt bonds. The new Spanish govt thinks that they can bring down the deficit from 8.5% to 3% in 2 years... They are dreaming. It can't be done... no austerity in the world can help them. They have private debt of over 300% to GDP -unemployment over 20% and trading partners in recession... Good luck with that!!

  8. #2748
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Ah, Platon, Spain will recieve a tecnocrat and become another protectorate as the spanish government fails.

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  9. #2749
    Vizsla's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Methink,s help is on the horizon regarding the great austerity experiment within the eurozone.

    The answer I think lies with Spain and its present troubles.

    The markets are waking up to the fact that austerity is killing any prospect of recovery within large sections of the eurozone.

    This policy is beginning to make it more likely that countries will be forced into default rather than repaying debt.

    The euro v the dollar exchange rate is maintaining a sort of balance due to the massive printing race that is going on.

    However with oil prices increasing, pressure grows on western economies leading to greater declines in domestic economies.

    Its time for our Dear Leader,s to come up with plan B.
    LTRO didn’t solve the underlying problems. Now it has been withdrawn those problems are becoming apparent again.
    They should have tried Quantitative Easing instead.
    But the Bundesbank said no.
    The Germans are still afraid of inflation.
    They don’t seem to care that austerity without easing monetary policy will destroy the weaker euro zone economies.
    Maybe when there is another crisis the Germans will agree to something, but don’t count on it.
    “Cretans, always liars” Epimenides (of Crete)

  10. #2750
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Platon View Post
    You can safely disregard the crap you responded to. The guy is an anti communist with absolutely no clue of KKE:s program.
    You must understand the communist position, and their internationalist agenda, before you can comment.
    KKE has always been branded as traitors to the Greek state, wich is absolutely laughable considering they were the only ones fighting against the Nazi occupation in ww2, while the others - mainly the 2 big parties - sold out the country!
    I've talked with many Greek communists and I know that they are against ethnicities and believe the only enemy is the rich politicians guiding each state against the other. I've heard how they want to share the Aegean Sea with Turkey for example. And of course, the main motivator behind the resistance against the Nazis was the fight against the Nazi ideology, not the fight for the freedom of the Greek nation.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  11. #2751
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    ^Then u haven't met the same communists as me, it seems....

  12. #2752
    clone's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    I've talked with many Greek communists and I know that they are against ethnicities and believe the only enemy is the rich politicians guiding each state against the other. I've heard how they want to share the Aegean Sea with Turkey for example. And of course, the main motivator behind the resistance against the Nazis was the fight against the Nazi ideology, not the fight for the freedom of the Greek nation.
    of course most comunist are a bunch of traitors.i hear them in my college too.
    about ww2 do you thing if dady stalin would want to free greece from the capitalists by invading (as the nazis did) it would the
    communist object of
    course not .greece today would be another satelite state
    .(very few would be the patriotic ones)?
    Beorn first its another thing voting for kke (many vote kke because all the others are either corrupt or stupid) its another thing being left and against capitalism
    and another thing being a hardcore communist
    come to pantio university and you will hear members of ΚΝΕ arguing how to set up they nation when the "revolution" will come
    Last edited by clone; April 12, 2012 at 08:10 AM.
    When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?”
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  13. #2753
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by clone View Post
    about ww2 do you thing if dady stalin would want to free greece from the capitalists by invading (as the nazis did) it would the
    communist object of
    course not .greece today would be another satelite state
    .(very few would be the patriotic ones)?
    It's the same with the so called 'tagmatasfalites' who were Nazi supporters and collaborated with the invaders. If the invaders were the Soviets, it would have been the communist partisans that would collaborate with the invaders.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  14. #2754
    clone's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    It's the same with the so called 'tagmatasfalites' who were Nazi supporters and collaborated with the invaders. If the invaders were the Soviets, it would have been the communist partisans that would collaborate with the invaders.
    i agree with you but there is a difference.first the soviet (would be) colaborators (in a soviet attack in greece) would join soviet because of their ideology while the nazi colaborators were not a single force.some were racist (or nazi),some colaborated for money and some were blinded by anticommunism.many of the nazi or fascism sympathisers and later some of the colaborators( i mean mainly some army officers not so much their people) fought against italy and germany despite their personal feelings( and later becoming traitors) would you thing the communist would do in the same case(few would do that)
    Last edited by clone; April 12, 2012 at 08:36 AM.
    When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?”
    Robert E. Howard



  15. #2755
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    So, let's see who the Greek communists really are:

    12/7/1935, article from Rizospastis (communist newspaper).

    The Asia Minor Expedition was not only aimed against New Turkey, but also against the interests of the Greek nation. Not only didn't the defeat of the bourgeois and the landowners in Asia Minor sadden us, we also sought it.
    The ideas still remain the same. Complete abolishment of the nations and fight against the interests of the states which are 'guided by the rich bourgeois'.
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  16. #2756
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Platon View Post
    You can safely disregard the crap you responded to. The guy is an anti communist with absolutely no clue of KKE:s program.
    You must understand the communist position, and their internationalist agenda, before you can comment.
    KKE has always been branded as traitors to the Greek state, wich is absolutely laughable considering they were the only ones fighting against the Nazi occupation in ww2, while the others - mainly the 2 big parties - sold out the country!
    Yes, he's anti-communist.
    But to say that the Greek state "always" branded them as traitors is a gross over-generalization. KKE is a legal party for the past 50+ years.
    The Greek parties didn't sold out Greece, we lost from the Germans fair and square. Also communists were NOT the only ones fighting the Germans. Many rightwing patriots did too.
    As for their patriotism, as many communists collaborated with the Burgarian occupation of Macedonia (our Macedonia, not FYROM) as rightwings with the Nazis.

    And let's not forget that the crappy slogan of "There are no National enemies, just class enemies" was often seen in Greece when we were fighting against the Italians, till Soviet Union got in the war, when the Communists changed their opinion within a couple of days.

    Yes, there were heroes of the resistance in the Communist party (one of my grandfather's brothers fought with the Communists to liberate Greece). There were also collaborator communists too though. And there were good rightwings fighting the Germans too. It's not black/white.


    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Methink,s help is on the horizon regarding the great austerity experiment within the eurozone.

    The answer I think lies with Spain and its present troubles.

    The markets are waking up to the fact that austerity is killing any prospect of recovery within large sections of the eurozone.

    This policy is beginning to make it more likely that countries will be forced into default rather than repaying debt.

    The euro v the dollar exchange rate is maintaining a sort of balance due to the massive printing race that is going on.

    However with oil prices increasing, pressure grows on western economies leading to greater declines in domestic economies.

    Its time for our Dear Leader,s to come up with plan B.

    Yeah, it seems likely.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  17. #2757
    clone's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes, he's anti-communist.
    But to say that the Greek state "always" branded them as traitors is a gross over-generalization. KKE is a legal party for the past 50+ years.
    The Greek parties didn't sold out Greece, we lost from the Germans fair and square. Also communists were NOT the only ones fighting the Germans. Many rightwing patriots did too.
    As for their patriotism, as many communists collaborated with the Burgarian occupation of Macedonia (our Macedonia, not FYROM) as rightwings with the Nazis.

    And let's not forget that the crappy slogan of "There are no National enemies, just class enemies" was often seen in Greece when we were fighting against the Italians, till Soviet Union got in the war, when the Communists changed their opinion within a couple of days.



    can you blame him(specialy after seeing what manuel posted).comunist(hardcore at least) were and always going to be traitors. its on their ideology
    When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?”
    Robert E. Howard



  18. #2758
    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Platon View Post
    KKE has always been branded as traitors to the Greek state, wich is absolutely laughable considering they were the only ones fighting against the Nazi occupation in ww2, while the others - mainly the 2 big parties - sold out the country!
    Is this all due to your civil war? I'm curious, how do you guys teach your civil war in schools? Or do you say it is "too soon" to be taught? The topic still seems to be sensitive. You can see a split even in this thread.

    Also, as a point of personal interest, are you taught about the role we played in your civil war? By mid-1949, Macedonians made up 14,000 out of 20,000 of the DSE's army. I think this would deserve a mention, but with the politics as it is I don't know if it would be included.
    На Запад масивно сиви облаци
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  19. #2759
    clone's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Acco View Post
    Is this all due to your civil war? I'm curious, how do you guys teach your civil war in schools? Or do you say it is "too soon" to be taught? The topic still seems to be sensitive. You can see a split even in this thread.

    Also, as a point of personal interest, are you taught about the role we played in your civil war? By mid-1949, Macedonians made up 14,000 out of 20,000 of the DSE's army. I think this would deserve a mention, but with the politics as it is I don't know if it would be included.
    no such thing are not included or are slightly refered
    When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in... Who will our invaders be? From whence will they come?”
    Robert E. Howard



  20. #2760
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Greek default this year

    From my somewhat hazy memory, Britain and churchill also played a part in the civil war.

    Civil wars Acco are sensitive subjects, The Irish are still a little shy of talking about their 1922-23 one.

    However it maybe better to concentrate on todays political war to save the Greek nation from the poor house?

    Oh a little Irish update, our home tax minister had to run and hide in a church from a large crowd of angry citizen,s. hehe.
    Last edited by magpie; April 12, 2012 at 03:03 PM.

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