Re: Greek default this year
Because we were a sovereign and independent country which made its own decisions before.Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos
Hell, I have no problem with being a European/IMF colony if it helps get rid of all our corrupt and useless public and military sector.
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
Source? The second bailout package. According to it, we have to sell public property such as communications, electricity and so on. And don't forget that Greece is still generating billions every year. You gave us some billions in order not to default (theoretically because practically we have already defaulted) and you will get it back with what, 6% interest? I can't see why you're concerned.
Because it did get us rid of all those things.
Last edited by Manuel I Komnenos; April 07, 2012 at 09:16 AM.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Re: Greek default this year
Hopefully they will.
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
Sure. Because the IMF/Europe's concern is to create a sustainable, incorruptible state of welfare and politicians who are bribed by Siemens and ThyssenGroup must be eradicated as they don't promote Germany's interests.
Made me laugh.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Re: Greek default this year
No, but getting rid of a bureaucratic mess which spends much more than it can only makes sense. A drastic reduction in public and military spending is something that would be done if we were a true colony.
Re: Greek default this year
zimbabwe also generates billions
source on the actual money raised and the buyers, so we can see if its a Eurozone masterplan to milk greece.
id rather be worried about the capital flight "draining" you dry, than the investments coming in.
im all for stuff like Helpe gas stations etc, I wish we had stuff of the sort in Germany, but we dont, because we live in this sick paradigme a bit longer, and if you then default and go dragma, good luck importing the oil Helpe sells.
Dux Limitis
Re: Greek default this year
I like how Manuel is still defending greece's shameful economic behavior and wishing for it to continue in that failure of a direction.
Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.
Comes Rei Militaris
Re: Greek default this year
Ehh... what? They gave us some billions with like 4% interest for 10 years, then extended it to 30 years and cut down 70% of the debt. I.e. they lost untold billions on us. Their inflation is like 3-3.5% I.e. there's no way they will get back even half the money they loaned us.
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"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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Re: Greek default this year
What happened was a charity case. Default has a different consequences.
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Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
What are you trying to say? What did I defend?
So, let me get this straight. Before the package: Greece would technically default on its debt by 100% chance and nobody would receive a cent from what it was owed. What happened now? The interest and the time was tweaked in order to allow Greece to repay most of its debt. That means that with option 1 they'd receive a big pile ofwhile in the 2nd they have won plenty of money. Get your facts straight mate. I don't want you to vote for PASOK thinking that they did a good job by striking this deal. What people need to understand is that who wins and who loses is based on the situation that each party finds itself in. Right now, in the mess that Greece is in, it's a victory to even get 30% of what you loaned to Greece (again theoretically because given the +-4% interest which is very high considering that it's a bailout package that will last for 10 years and the high interest these loans had been receiving since they were taken before +-10 years the original owner has already amassed multiple times what he loaned).
No. There's no charity between states.
Last edited by Manuel I Komnenos; April 07, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Re: Greek default this year
But how will we defend our rocks, Manuel? How?
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
We shouldn't. Sell all our Leopards to Turkey already.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
Re: Greek default this year
That's what I thought before the Greek crisis. Cutting down debt with no consequences is a charity case. Greece is basically getting a scholarship.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
Again, you fail to grasp how cutting the Greek debt is the only way anyone is going to see his money again.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Re: Greek default this year
Its being cut.
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Re: Greek default this year
Which is way less than what they normally should have get. Default is still worse than that. For me to fail grasping that fact that fact needs to be relevant. It's not.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
Sure, but 'normally' cannot really describe the current situation. Greece cannot receive more loans so the state cannot fund its past loans anymore. Let's say that you owe me 10.000 euros. Do I kill you (default) or make sure that you'll at least be able to return part of the loan (cut the debt)? It's the same thing and the second choice is the most profitable. It's down to me to decide whether loaning you money is a sane option (there's always a risk) and down to you to return the loan. So, in this case, both Greece and the markets are to blame.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
Re: Greek default this year
Which makes a charity case.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Rex Regum
Re: Greek default this year
No, it's not. It would have been charity if Eurozone gave a loan to Greece with 0% interest and erased all her debt. But yeah, there's no charity between states. There's profit. Sometimes it's big, others it's small.
Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
"Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
Re: Greek default this year
A charity doesn't mean all the debt is cut. You're just arguing against my choice of words because it's condescending.
Last edited by PointOfViewGun; April 07, 2012 at 01:11 PM.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
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