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Thread: Weapons of Amazons:Total War 6.0, 7.0, & 8.0

  1. #1

    Default Weapons of Amazons:Total War 6.0, 7.0, & 8.0

    Description below contains some original anthropology theses developed by Parthian Shot and her partner (not a TWC member). Written permission is needed to quote or use the information, in part or as a whole.

    In addition to the background of Amazon Factions already posted, I thought I started a thread which includes weapon descriptions of the mod.
    It certainly represents a unique aspect as well as possibility for the scenarios of combat in the ancient world.
    This article is co-authored with my partner who is a level III certified archery coach as well as ex-royal armory museum docent and antiquity arm expert.
    This article is also written in the hope that, in the future, correct animations can be done to show real-life action of these weapons in the mod.

    The weapons on this list are
    - Double Bow, or Double Draw Bow
    - Fluted Iron Casing Missile filled with lead
    - Large Composite Bow
    - Giant Composite Bow
    - Giant Double Composite Bow
    - Large Double Composite Bow
    - Mano Ballista
    - Caro Ballista
    - Pyro-Thermite-jar

    Double-Bow

    which is in use by many units in the Amazon factions in this mod. This is a weapon appeared in ancient Hindu as well as Persian manuscripts. The deployment of such weapon is perhaps much more ancient than the date of the manuscripts. The primary advantage of the double-bow is to allow archers with shorter arms (or equestrian with confined space such as on the horseback or on a chariot) to achieve parity against bow of longer draw. The simple physics is that the longer the draw of the bow, the faster and farther the arrow (or missile) will go. The other way to make the missile to go faster with shorter draw is to add more poundage onto the bow. As the poundage increases, however, the limbs and the bowstring will go through much faster rate of wear and tear and therefore break down much more frequently. The archer shooting higher poundage bow will also get tired quicker in battle than an archer pulling two strings (of lesser poundage) twice. So the Double-Bow, or the Double Draw Bow is introduced as a solution.

    The double bow has one riser (the static, none-flexing part of the bow which also doubles as a grip) but with two separate sets of limbs (or prods, as it was commonly called in ancient time). Unlike the modern compound bow with split limbs, each set of limbs has its own separate bow string.

    To shoot the bow, the archer first draws one bowstring to a hook on the gorget (neck armor), she then draws the second bow string onto the same hook. The archer then attach either a shaft as a guide, if she is shooting the stone, lead block, or as in Amazon Total War - Reignited mod, iron-casing filled with lead. Or she would attach an arrow with special nock onto both of the bowstrings. Once the projectile is in place, the drawing hand then took over the hook and release both bow strings at once.

    For archer who is not wearing armor, such as the Finnic Amazon Archers in the mod, she would use a metal bite, and use their teeth to hold the bite while drawing bow strings. The bite has a smooth shape protrusion which functions as a hook, and the bowstrings are nocked onto the hook, while their teeth are holding the hook!

    The bow is actually designed to shoot stone, lead block, or as in the case of this game-mod, iron-casing filled with lead, but usually not the regular arrows, because the nock of an arrow for such a bow must be specially made to allow the arrow to be attached to both bowstrings at once. Such custom made part is a very expensive proposition in the ancient days. Whereas, if the bow is shooting a stone or a lead block, a bare arrow shaft, or multiple shafts binded together is used as a guide, and the projectile is launched using the binded shaft(s)s as a rail. In the Amazon Reignited mod, the Geothe Amazon archers shoot iron-casings the size of a thumb (1.25inch diameter, 3 inches long), which is filled inside with lead. The tail-end of the cylindrical casing is fluted to allow the missile to spin in the air, so this in effect, become an ancient form of rifling armor piercing bullet.

    Fluted Iron-Casing filled with Lead

    The making of arrow shaft is not as simple in the antiquity as it is today. So it is actually more economical to shoot stone, lead block, or lead ingot witha bow. Lead can be easily melted and measured and made to the precise weight and shape, than a long piece of wooden shaft, which must be aged, cured, inspected, then hewed or lathed to guarantee the straightness of the shaft. The lead is also a more ballistically efficient material than wood, and will shoot farther and retain more velocity at long range, with the compromise that it is a higher density projectile, so its initial velocity is slower than the wooden arrow. The iron-casing is used during war time to allow the missile to become armor piercing. One benefit of iron+lead combination is that, as the iron-casing goes through shield or armor, the kinetic energy of the missile is suddenly translated into heat, so the impact of the missile also allows the iron to heat up the lead so as to turn the lead into toxic vapor or liguid, while the iron-casing is still penetrating through the target.

    Large Composite Bow

    A regular composite bow is for archer to draw naturally, such that her draw length is the length measured from her chin to her shoulder plus the length of her arm. In preparing for war, the military planner would sought ways to improve the range of their warrior's missile weapons. The simplest way is to equip the archer with larger bow, and ask her to draw the bowstring passing her chin. Composite bow is easier to increase in size as well as draw-weight than a one-piece wooden bow. Because the increased stress on larger bow can be matched by adding laminating material on the reflexing side of the bow to strengthen its structural integrity, whereas, the one piece wooden bow is limited by the strength of the wood.

    The large composite bow would allow the archer to draw the bowstring to the opposite shoulder, so as to allow 25%-35% increase in energy. This would translate to harder hitting arrow or slightly longer range (about 10-15%).

    Giant Composite Bow

    When the larger size composite bow is not hard hitting enough. There is the giant composite bow. The archer would draw the bow string past her chin and then past her other shoulder, and the draw stops with her drawing arm fully extended up to her drawing arm's elbow. The giant composite bow can be dangerous to the foe, and to the shooter alike, because it is easy for a novice archer to knock off her own ear or nose if the bow string is not released with the proper shooting form.

    As dangerous and as difficult to aim as it can be, the giant composite bow increases the draw length by 75% and the range of the missile is increased by 35%.

    One of the major disadvantage of the Giant Composite bow shooting arrows as its projectile, is the limited amount of arrow-store an archer can carry with her. It is a not necessarily a matter of weight, more pressingly it is matter of the volume, because the arrow for such bow would be the size of small javelin, an archer can only afford enough carrying space to carry 10-15 reloads with her, before the load gets cumbersome, wheather she is on horseback or on foot.

    Giant Double Composite Bow

    Of the most freakish horse archery missile weapon in the antiquity must be the giant double composite bow. The archer must have a perfect shooting form, and using a special bite in her mouth, she is able to draw the bow to her opposite (drawing arm's) elbow. She would then use the special bite which has a long extension and double as a launch rail. The length of the extension is usually measured to half of the archer's shoulder width, plus the arm length up to her elbow.

    To shoot the weapon, the archer first securely place the bite in her mouth with the long extension pointing opposite of her bow arm, she then extends her bow arm fully, and draw the first bow string past her chin, then past the opposite shoulder, and when her drawing arm is fully extended except at the elbow, she has to find and place the bowstring onto the end of the mouth extension (the nocking point) while she is biting down the bite, along with the extension, to hold off the drawing weight of the bowstring. She then draws the second bowstring to the same spot. so now with her mouth biting down hard to hold both bow strings at the end of the mouthpiece, she somehow has to place the projectile at the nocking point. Her drawing hand now slowly replacing the hold of the bowstrings on the mouth piece, and she would then adjust the aim, then release the missile.

    The Giant Double Composite Bow can almost double the range of regular composite bow, but it would be difficult to shoot an arrow with it because it is impossible to place and nock the arrow onto the bowstrings and replace the hold from the mouth piece onto the drawing hand, all of the steps with the archer not able to look at the nocking point. So the Giant Double Compsite Bow must be shot with stone, lead block, or lead ingot, or iron-casing shot filled with lead.

    Large Double Composite Bow

    Of all the technological quests in the ancient time to allow horse archer to shoot missiles farther with harder hitting power. The Large Double Composite Bow is perhaps the most rational weapon. It uses double sets of limbs and double bowstrings, plus an anchor point on the shoulder, so the archer would draw her bowstring past her chin, and keep on pulling until she can place the bowstring onto the shoulder armor plate on her opposite shoulder. There is a hook on the shoulder armor plate which is polished and smoothed so as not to cut the bowstring, the archer would place the bowstrings, either one at the time or two of them together, and place the strings onto the hook. The archer would then place the projectile (be it arrow or pyro-jar, or lead ingot, or iron casing) either on the rail, or on the bow string and release both of the bowstrings with her drawing hand.

    Another advantage of the LDCB is that if the archer has two nocking hooks attached to either side of her shoulder armor, she would be able to easily shoot the bow ambidextrously on the horseback.

    Amazon Mano Ballista

    By name it implies this weapon is a man-portable ballista. Contrary to popular belief, this is a very different weapon from a crossbow. A mano-ballista uses torsion spring mechanism whereas a crossbow uses compression spring mechanism.

    On the mano ballista, there is no limb or prod that flexes to store energy. Instead, there is a pair of metal or wooden rods each is insert into its own turret like rotary wheel. Each wheel is tightly bound with sinew or hair. or if the advanced metalsmithing is available, metal torque spring, the weapon, in its common form would otherwise resembles a crossbow, except the rod does not flex, and the spring power came from the sinew, hair strains, or rotary metal torque spring on the rotary wheels.
    The real advantage of the mano-ballista is the fact that the weapon can be rapidly mass-produced. Whereas a composite bow takes 5 years for the laminated layers of glue to cure, the mano-ballista can be quickly assembled and deployed if all the components are available. It is also more powerful and accurate (ie. less variation on the speed of the missile) than most limb flexing bows. But it takes longer to draw and to shoot and some designs are more cumbersome to carry.

    So here we are describing the Amazon Mano-Ballista, and the main difference is its loading method. The mano-ballista archer on horseback would place one end of Mano-Ballista onto the sole of one of her sandals. She would then pull the launching rope/string back with one arm, while her foot is holding the other end of the mano-ballista, and in effect, "cock" the ballista in one pull. She would then level the weapon and place the projectile on the launching string pouch, aim the weapon and shoot. The sequence is almost as fast as shooting a regular horse bow. But the weapon is far more powerful because the drawing method with a foot and a hand can assert much more force and put more energy into the mano-ballista than a bow or smaller mano-ballista drawn with just two hands.

    There is often a misconception that only the Greeks, and later the Romans, have such technology to make the mano-ballista in 270BC. If we look further east to the Orient, the entire army of the King Chu of China, of approximately 300,000 soldiers, is outfitted with crossbows, catapult, and mano-ballistae as early as 480BC at all level of their army.

    Caro Ballista

    This is the same carriage ballista from the RTW/BI, but fires the powerful pyro-thermite-jar to long range. Missile launching platform like this is actually fairly common, because the Amazon and many people of the Caucasus of their time are, from period to period, wandering wagon people.

    Pyro-Jar

    This is an ancient weapon which can be used either as a grenade or as a ballista launched projectile (like an ancient form of rifle grenade).

    This is not simply an incendiary weapon. The main difference is that incendiary weapon merely causes fire, whereas, the thermite weapon superheats the target it impacts and turn it (the target) into combustable fuel.

    The ancient form of thermite jar is an earthen jar the size of a small milk bottle. Prior to launch or throwing, a small piece of iron spike is inserted or affixed at the bottom of the jar. The spike has an iron stop against the jar in such fashion that, once airborne and impact on a surface, the iron spike which hits the impact surface first would be pushed back and its backend stop would split the bottom of the jar and thereupon breaking the jar. The iron spike also double as a ballistic stabilizer, because it is heavier in density than the jar, it would land first on impact. And the combination of iron spike with the jar will minimized the chance of the projectile to tumble or wobble during flight.

    The jar is filled with thermite material in the form of phosphor isolated in a special non-oxygenated liquid, with the tail-end of the jar filled with magnesium and rust. The idea of thermite is to create a super-heated thermal reaction to 2,500 degree Celsius. A small milk bottle sized jar would super-heat a frontage about 16 square-foot, and turn everything which normally do not burn, into combustable fuel (hence the definition of thermite), that includes shield, armor (iron or bornze), clothing, and flesh. At that temperature, rust, as well as water (remember that human body is 95% liquid, 55-60% pure water) will become an oxidizing agent for the ignition and thereafter the highspeed combustion of the target area. The rest is just gory details. From a tactical stand point of view, thermite weapon is much more lethal against armored target, than normal incendiary weapon in antiquity.

    As to the manufacturing of the ingredients (warning-people don't try this at home), it is a much less glamorous task. Phosphor, for example, can be extracted and isolated from urine, and human body has an amazing amount of phospher needed for cell membrane functions, as in phospholipids. Magnesium can be mined naturally from magnesite, a magnesium carbonate mineral. Rust can be any metalic rust.

    There were feedback that the pyro-jar is simply too powerful on the battlefield in this mod. But the other side of the rebuttal is that, this is all realistic as well as do-able once a faction figures out the logistics of how to store them and transport them to the battlefield.
    Last edited by bibi g; May 26, 2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Changed title to include 8.0 release
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  2. #2
    Androktones's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Well hopefully you increased the range on the Caro Ballista from BI, tis ashame when slingers can take out a whole crew for 2 units without them firing back once.

    Androktones

  3. #3

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Don't worry, now they can take out armies without the armies firing back

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Quote Originally Posted by TWWolfe View Post
    Don't worry, now they can take out armies without the armies firing back
    One thing we should change is to make these pyro-jars less accurate. I am still trying to create a realistic ballistic model on what percentage of inaccuracy is acceptable.

    Any opinion whould be greatly appreciated.
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  5. #5
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    informative article.
    Last edited by z3n; November 03, 2012 at 08:16 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Pyro-Jar very interesting and certainly an important weapons, but needs to be lowered accuracy, since a strong effect on the balance of the battle.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Tested out a ballistic configuration base on TG and Andrey's suggestion, as it turns out, the most devastating use of caro ballista launched pyro-jar is when the caro unit entices the less mobil unit to give chase, and (don't you just love my user id) trying the parthian shots on the chasing unit.

    Another devastating maneuver is for the Caro Unit to flank a less mobile unit and use the not so accurate shots at close range (sort of the Admiral Nelson's fleet tactics) to enfilade the flank and the entire unit would start to run away after two-three volleys, after sustaining a 85% casualty rate.

    So I then switched the ballistic accuracy back, and to my surprise, the same battle against the same set of units, the long range shots are only inflicting marginally more casualty, and it is still at the middle and close range volley that inflicts the devastating kills.

    I was reminded of Caesar's Commentary, where an enemy force is occupying a nearby hill, and Caesar or one of his officers ordered the ballistae unit into action. At long range, the entire force on the hill is wiped out by the Roman artillery "fire".

    So I am not sure if we should keep the current accuracy setting of the pyro-jars or switch to the less accurate configuration.

    As for battle against the light cavalry units, a veteran light cavalry unit can still catch the caro ballista and wipe out the caro artillery. I think the trick is to order a loose formation before charge, and only switch to tight (or wedge) formation at the last moment.

    Any one has other thoughts please feel free to share.
    Last edited by parthian shot; September 10, 2011 at 05:58 PM.
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  8. #8
    Spike's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    and the weapons like this, while it maybe have some real life counterparts, actually being very OP in game...
    especially with all the reduced armour and technologies to most factions

    Annokerate Koriospera Yuinete Kuliansa


  9. #9

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Of course as far as increasing bow effectiveness, ie more speed on the arrow, you could also go for the Mongol solution. Add those long extensions on the end. They acted as levers, giving the archer more power with less effort in the pull.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Thanks for sharing that info.

    As a matter of fact, modern non-compound bows are usually referred to as the recurve bow. The term "recurve" is derived from the end of the limbs (what you mentioned as the extension) where the bow string is attached to, is formed into a recurved angle. This would mildly increase the energy-transfer to the arrow by less than 5%, because of the extra kick of the bow string slamming against the recurved end of the limbs at the end of the bow's power-stroke cycle.

    There are couple issues with it, first of all, unless the arrow is shot from the middle of the riser, which it usually is not, the upper and the lower limbs would have then to be made to different poundages, because if the kicks of the recurve-ends of the limbs are not synchronized correctly, the arrow actually flies slower, not faster.

    The second has to do with the fact that the string wears out much faster at the part where it has to slam against the recurve end of the limbs, shots after shots.

    Mongols were not the first nomadic group uses the composite recurve bow, the Avars (Aorsii) did. It was more like an accidental invention of sort, because they supposedly used the Ancyran ram horns as the limbs and they are naturally shaped in recurved fashion.

    Just a quick reference, the Noble-Maiden units in the mod (shown as my signature) as well as Subrosa's Roman Amazon Auxilia units are already animated as shooting bows with recurve ends.
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Description below contains some original anthropology theses developed by Parthian Shot and her partner (not a TWC member). Written permission is needed to quote or use the information, in part or as a whole.

    In release 6.0a and later, a new weapon has been introduced called the pole-sling. In a general way, the Roman Onager, so proliferated in the RTW game, is a supersized pole-sling.

    From the anthropological perspective, the original pole-sling was probably deployed in combat when combatants ran out of spearshafts. Wooden shaft is not as easy to manufacture in the ancient days. The wood needs to be inspected for defects, stored and cured for about 5 years, hewn to the correct shape, fire-hardened, then coated with varnish.

    But very often when an army is equipped (or given) with greenwood javelin or spear, and it did happen in history, they would find the wooden shaft buckle when thrusted against the opponent, and depending on the weather the shafts would warp over time, making accurate placement of hit (be it spear or javelin) a much more difficult proposition. The fitting of greenwood with spear shaft would also resulted in loose fit and often the spear tip would fall off the shaft when the user least expected.

    In the Roman record, there were two legions which are armed with plumbata (leadened darts), each dart is about 60cm in length. But the record also stated that the Plumbata can be launched to great distance, such that the legionaires no longer need archer support. The only plausible way such heavy weapon can be launched by a single soldier on the move to such distance (120meter-180meter), is the use of pole sling.
    But there is one advantage of greenwood or flexiwood, that it makes a great pole sling. So if we can visualize an army with greenwood shafted javelin or spear. They are far better off using the greenwood as a pole sling and their spear tip (or lead block that fits onto the end of the shaft) as sling missile weapons than engage their opponent with handheld spears, or hand-thrown javelins.
    Last edited by parthian shot; April 05, 2013 at 11:53 AM.
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Great info

  13. #13

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazon:Total War - Reignited

    Description below contains some original anthropology theses developed by Parthian Shot and her partner (not a TWC member). Written permission is needed to quote or use the information, in part or as a whole.

    This is to update new weapons of the Amazon Total War 7.0

    they are

    - War Wagon
    - Horde Wagon
    - Linked Armor Clad Cavalry (sometimes mislabeled Linked Cataphract Cavalry)
    - still under R&D, infantry heavy chariot

    Ancient proto-Europeans (aka Proto-Indo-European [PIE] such as Alans, Germans, Norse, Celt, Goths, and so on) are often wagon wandering people, so it is not surprising that the symbol most often associated with PIE is that of a spoke wheel (wagon wheel). And the it is also not surprising that their wagons could be used in warfare. However, this mod is not depicting the wagons as forts (aka tabor or laager), because the laager as a wagon fort can be easily implemented with fort animation using wagons as fort walls (we will add that later). The new wagons as weapons added are to depict offensive use of the wagon, in effect, use of them as the world's first heavy tanks, long before the elephant was first used in warfare.

    [By the way, the anthropology theses this mod team is advancing state that the same PIE in matriarchal society are at least some of the Amazons the Greeks are referred to. The reason the Greeks only saw women riders were because women were the only warriors small/petite enough to ride on most of the ancient horses over a certain distance away from their base (wagon fort?) of operation. It is not unusual that the advancing scouts from many nomadic tribes would ride up to two hundred some miles ahead of their wagon trains. And it is also possible that their leader is with the scouting company to reconnoiter the terrain as well as to survey the nearby sedentary people. Hence the Greeks mentioning of Amazon Queen(s), either riding into battle to Troy or raiding the Balkans. For the Amazons to "invade" Greece, their wagon train must stay near what is today's central/west Turkish plains because from the east of Phrygia or Caria, it is too mountainous for the large wagon to pass the mountain passes without building proper roads, not to mention these wandering folks would need proper wagons with brakes. And of course the wagon people have no boats to transport their large wagons over the Dardanelles Strait either, so the Greeks only saw their scouts and not surprisingly, they are all women, because women are the only riders who can stay on the horseback this long distance away from their base without the horses getting tired. Not that men are not better equestrians, but it is an economy of operation and a matter of survival. After all, the horses with smaller payload would run away from danger much faster than the horses with bulkier load.]

    Linked Armor Clad Cavalry

    This is described in Tangut and Khitan records, and the use of such cavalry is perhaps many centuries earlier. The idea is to link the armored horses 4-20 abreast with chain or yoke, and to form a rank which will not swerve around the enemy formation but will charge head on into it, so as to smash the enemy formation. The Jurchen deployed such units in the battlefield and it was nearly invincible. Each rank only need a rider or two to rein in the horses and they would carry halberd and/or bow to suppress the enemy attempting to engage them from the flanks.

    Compare to the other heavy cavalry units, the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry is more economical than elephants and requires less soldier to man, and can traverse tougher terrain than chariots.

    War Wagon

    This is not a chariot and does not need the maneuverability either. But it can be fast, nearly indestructible and carry with each wagon a great deal of fire power.

    Horde Wagon

    This gives the horde faction some units they can be using to replacement good infantry, but can also be used as medium cavalry to pursue slow enemy who is running away.

    Infantry Heavy Chariot

    This is from the ancient central Asian and Chinese scripts about using heavy Chariot with assigned infantry (sort of like the use of infantry support tank in WWII), whereby, when assaulting the enemy field formations, the infantry would follow the chariot closely on foot and when the chariot charges into the enemy formation to create a breach, the infantry that followed will try to exploit the breach.
    Last edited by parthian shot; April 05, 2013 at 11:54 AM.
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Weapons of Amazons:Total War 6.0, 7.0, & 8.0

    Description below contains some original anthropology theses developed by Parthian Shot and her partner (not a TWC member). Written permission is needed to quote or use the information, in part or as a whole.

    This is to update new weapons and war machines of the Amazon Total War 8.0

    they are

    - Mobile Battle Tower, Xenophon's description
    - Caro Palintonon
    - Fustibalus

    Mobile Battle Tower

    This is a semi-siege warfare field unit which provides artificial height to better provide field of fire.

    Caro Palintonon

    Mobile Palintonon accompanied Alexander the Great to Asia, technically just a carriage ballista, but different from the Roman Carriage Ballistas in that they fire canister shots filled with lead or stone pallets instead of large bolt.

    Fustibalus

    Similar to the pole sling used in the previous Amazons Total War mod, fustibalus also has a pole but with a pouch attached to the end of the pole to throw stones or lead pellet up to 700 paces.
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Just curious as to what sources indicate that the Eastern Celts ever worked metal to the extent of fully armoring hundreds of horses.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Also in all the research done on the far East Celts i have not come across any information that suggests they had much/if any standing military or that their women made up the majority of such forces. Any research you could direct me to that gives examples of such claims would be great as i am very fascinated by these findings and have been reading everything i can find about this topic since it's discovery.. But apparently i have missed much..lol

  17. #17

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaaKing View Post
    Just curious as to what sources indicate that the Eastern Celts ever worked metal to the extent of fully armoring hundreds of horses.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaaKing View Post
    Also in all the research done on the far East Celts i have not come across any information that suggests they had much/if any standing military or that their women made up the majority of such forces. Any research you could direct me to that gives examples of such claims would be great as i am very fascinated by these findings and have been reading everything i can find about this topic since it's discovery.. But apparently i have missed much..lol
    Just what source you think indicated Far Eastern Celts ever existed?
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Quote Originally Posted by parthian shot View Post
    Just what source you think indicated Far Eastern Celts ever existed?
    Not at all an answer to my question. I was under the impression this mod was based off of Archaeological and Anthropological References i was simply inquiring as to what references indicated such high levels of Armor Crafting of the people in this region? They rode horses there is no doubt, but beyond that i was just curious as to what references indicated a faction like the one depicted in your mod.

    I understand there is no proof that their was a Nation of people that went by the name Far East Celts..lol.. I understand the Research into the celtic mummies found in this region is somewhat new and limited and not all that much has been proven 100% about the people who once inhabited this area. And this is the main reason i was asking what information you came across that indicates the people in this region were like the nation of the Far East Celts depicted in this mod?

    As to your question about what source indicates a Celtic people existed here is a really confusing question coming from the mods developer. Seeing as the Eastern Celtic Faction Description contains much of the source information of the research done on the Mummies found in this region. In fact to me it seems like you watched some documentaries about this very topic, then dreamed up a mystical race of once upon a time people that could have possibly existed.. Now i am really stretching the word "Possibly" here, as i see no indication that people of this region and at this time could have possibly fielded forces like the ones depicted in this mod

  19. #19

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Quote Originally Posted by parthian shot View Post
    Just what source you think indicated Far Eastern Celts ever existed?
    Just what source made you include them in your non-fantasy Amazon mod Mod based on anthropological theses and latest archaeological data?
    Last edited by parthian shot; January 06, 2014 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Disruptive and presumptive

  20. #20

    Default Re: Amazon: Total War 6.0, 7.0 & 8.0, Archaeological and Anthropological References

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaaKing View Post
    Not at all an answer to my question. I was under the impression this mod was based off of Archaeological and Anthropological References i was simply inquiring as to what references indicated such high levels of Armor Crafting of the people in this region? They rode horses there is no doubt, but beyond that i was just curious as to what references indicated a faction like the one depicted in your mod.

    I understand there is no proof that their was a Nation of people that went by the name Far East Celts..lol.. I understand the Research into the celtic mummies found in this region is somewhat new and limited and not all that much has been proven 100% about the people who once inhabited this area. And this is the main reason i was asking what information you came across that indicates the people in this region were like the nation of the Far East Celts depicted in this mod?

    As to your question about what source indicates a Celtic people existed here is a really confusing question coming from the mods developer. Seeing as the Eastern Celtic Faction Description contains much of the source information of the research done on the Mummies found in this region. In fact to me it seems like you watched some documentaries about this very topic, then dreamed up a mystical race of once upon a time people that could have possibly existed.. Now i am really stretching the word "Possibly" here, as i see no indication that people of this region and at this time could have possibly fielded forces like the ones depicted in this mod
    So my understanding is that you first appeared to claim to have some knowledge of Far Eastern Celtic people, but now you have unmasked that you basically are making claims about me, or the mod team, or our work? That your first and the very first post of TWC as the user FAAKing is to masquerade your true intention?

    Where are your sources and proof for these "postulations"?

    - "then dreamed up a mystical race of once upon a time people that could have possibly existed", what is the basis of this claim about it is "mystical"?

    -"as i see no indication that people of this region and at this time could have possibly fielded forces like the ones depicted in this mod", this clause has no connection with your preamble in the same sentence, and you statement has claims+supposition of its own with no proof and no sources to back it up.

    - "As to your question about what source indicates a Celtic people existed here is a really confusing question coming from the mods developer"
    It is a straight forward question I asked because I need to know how much you really know about the Far Eastern Celtic people, because your posts seemed to have a pretension that you are some kind of expert. If there is any confusion, it is yours.

    For example, you are the only person ever call the Celts a "nation", we never did, in case you don't know, a faction is not a nation, Intentionally or not, yours presents a very sorry attempt at trying to smear the work of this mod, we and other mods (including RTW vanilla) also have Western Celt or Briton as a faction, but culturally we all know neither the Celts nor Britons were a nation, but a group of tribes. But I don't see you ask this about other mods or the Creative Assembly about that, why only makes fuzz with this mod?

    . Do you know the Far East Celt has been definitively DNA-linked to the Western Celtic people? read posts in the previous Amazons Total War (7.0) release, and there are discussions about it.
    . Do you know the weaving patterns of the Far East Celts fabrics are similar as the Western Celtic people?
    . Do you know the language system of the Far Eastern Celts are sharing similarity with the language group of the PIE of the ancestors of the Western Celtic people?
    . No one had called this people Far Eastern Celt, or Far East Celt, I am the first, because I have been there in the Gobi Desert and Tarim Basin and done my studies. And my mod team agrees to it. So this part of the mod is based on anthropological theses (mine), and latest extrapolation of archaeological findings (also mine). And I stand by that statement. However inaccurate a portrayal of the animation is, that is a totally different issue. But we have made a few hundred minor releases, and it is self-evident that we are trying to improve.

    I am hoping you are not trolling, so please prove I am right. In the future, please do a search of the entire forum first before you post such messages. And because my team mates were told by me not to cross into the public forum, I or the current admin will be the only person answering questions, and that does not mean I am alone for people to take cheap shot at.

    And measures will be taken to deal with trolls. TWC admins are working with my team to triangulate people who are using alt ID for disrupting forum activities. Please read the forum etiquette here...
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-for-the-Forum

    Also this thread where you originally posted is the "Archaeological and Anthropological References" of the stories behind the mod, please desist from demanding everything stated here must be Archaeological and Anthropological Referenced.

    Also, if you have questions about weapons as well as armors, please post in the weapon or unit description thread, this thread (where you originally posted) is about the background story for the mod, so you posted in the wrong thread, I will see if I can move these posts over there.
    Last edited by parthian shot; January 07, 2014 at 04:56 AM. Reason: moved from Archaeological and Anthropology background story thread
    Amazon Total War: Where Synergies of Mobility, Firepower, & Fieldcraft Never End. Semper Puellis!

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