Spears, Swords and Axes... Formations, Abilities and Attack Types

[HandKing]

I know - the title is a mouthful and is actually about many different things, but overall this thread is about trying to find out about combat effectiveness of troops and their uses (mainly inf).

Some general, obvious, unit card information stuff.
Attack#/Defense# - (Obvious)
Effective against armour - (Enemy armour/2)
Bonus vs Cav - (+ Attack vs Cav, is this different per unit?)
Bonus in woods - (+ Attack in woods, is this different per unit?)

Some general, obvious, tactical stuff.
Spears should be used vs Cav
Axes/Halberds are good vs armoured units/Cav

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That's the general obvious stuff mostly clarified. Most of us know all this, however, I'm aware that there are other factors involved in unit effectiveness that I don't know about:

Attack speed.
I read somewhere that spear units generally attack faster than swordmen. Is this true and does this make them more effective on a Spear Vs Sword battle where the two units have equal stats? Or do Swords automatically have a bonus vs spear units?

Unit (inf) Type.
The infantry unit types that I can think of are:
Spearmen
Light Infantry
Heavy Infantry
Missile (such as Pelagir Marines)

Do these unit types have background bonus vs one another?
For example - do Light Inf have a bonus Vs Spearmen?
Do Heavy Inf have a bonus Vs Light Inf?
Do Missile troops suffer in against another troop type even with the same attack/defense stats? (I notice Pelagir Marines die faster in Melee than Gondor Militia?)

Attack Type.
I've seen different attack types in the unit modding file. I'm not sure if these translate to bonuses vs other unit types or whether these simply define the weapon animation type...

Piercing
Slashing
etc...

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Formations.
Shield Wall - Does this increase defence? Is it best to use it to block city roads/gates? Does it leave the unit vulnerable to anything (missile/cav charge)?

Spear "Circle" (Schiltrom) - Does this increase defense vs cav charges only? Vulnerable to missile etc?

There are also two other formations that are similar if I'm not mistaken - Spear Wall and something else? (Probably similar but for halberds?) These are probably more obvious as formations go - I don't believe they affect stats, but instead just slow down your units?

Please let me know if any of the above info is incorrect and I'll amend where necessary.

Thanks.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Shield Wall increases defense, and yes it's good when fighing in narrow places.

Schiltron (spear circle) works everytime, negating every kind of flanking, not only against cavalry

Spear Wall is GREAT when your front is toward the enemy; you'll get malus against flanking, maybe, can't remember right now.

Attack speed: spear>sword>axe/mace (>two handed?). High attack speed is very useful because the enemy will get hit many times, and everytime it will trigger the "being hit" animation, that prevent him to fight back. Not a huge advantage, but still an advantage.

I d0n't think unit type means anything special. Maybe it's used by the AI when recruiting, a sort of priority in recruiting some type of unit depending on the AI behavior?

Swordsmen usually have higher Attack stat. Spear has bonus against cavalry, but malus in defense against swords (light_spear) or malus in attack (spear) IIRC. Axes/Maces have lower attack stat but have AP, that halves enemy armour value.

So, swordsmen are good against anything, spear are good against cavalry and weak against swords, axe/mace-armed units usually lose against other intanfry but are GREAT against heavy armoured enemy unit (troll, you say?).

[Ultra123]

i have hardly ever used shield wall is it really that good?

and 'malus' mikail? im sure you mean 'minus'...

[Bungo Baggins]

Concerning 'malus':
It's Latin and means something like bad. So basically the same as 'minus', only more sophisticated...

Like both Handking and Mikail said shield wall is especially of advantage when you fight in a settlement, because it is no use to lengthen your line so that you can flank the enemy.
Instead your units stay tight together, which enablkes several of your men to hit one enemy. But it isn't of much so use in a mass fight, and you should avoid getting hit by a cavalry charge while your units have a shield wall.

[GondorCaptain]

Spear Circle is the "Schiltrom" ability
Halberds and Pike units both have "Spear Wall" ability
The two others I think are "Guard" and "Wedge" (also maybe loose formation). I don't know the stat advantages confered by each, I just know the formation and behaviour change.

And concerning the shield wall formation, which I just learned increases Defense... it's not as good as hoped because even with Shield Wall AND Guard mode enabled, soldiers in contact with the enemy tend to diffuse out of formation, where they get surrounded and cut down. I tested in open fields and under the gate in sieges, same result as soldiers wander away from the rest of the tightly formed Shield Wall and get themselves killed. This really diminishes its effectiveness.

Perhaps other know more, you've asked many of the itching questions in my brain!

[Benox]

at least in rome total war, "guard" was worse than "no guard" because, they didnt route the enemy but, they attack less, inflict less damage and take more damage as far as i know

[Robert E Lee]

alot of people dont understand the use of the cav. Wedge ability. its used when 2 units happen to seperate a bit in a battle and the cav rushes through that "gap" to get behind enemy lines. once behind the army, u take them out of Wedge formation and then set up your charges. alot of people think its for braking through a single unit that maybe was put in a thin line, but it wont work that way "in game". the Schiltrom formation gives you 100% perfect defence and correctly spaced apart units will let crossbows shoot through the gaps! but it takes away practically all mobility or offensive options...generals choice. Guard mode makes your men not chase a enemy like a dumbass and get killed. but also its also good on a weaker unit to hold out against a stronger one till help arrives, also great in sieges + great for ranged units to. Shield Wall is great allround i think, but the lines shorter and will get surrounded but i think its worth the trade off. Shield Wall + charge with dwarves will bust through anything. hope that helps.

[Muffer Nl]

Shield Wall increases defense, and yes it's good when fighing in narrow places.

Incorrect formations do NOT change stats. They only change how a unit behaves. In this case the units stand close together making them stronger when fighting in close combat but weaker to missile fire and flanking.

Schiltron (spear circle) works everytime, negating every kind of flanking, not only against cavalry

Schiltron negates flanking moves so that troops wont lose morale from it, they remove flanks but also makes the unit slower and more prone to arrow fire (Half the unit has their backs to the archers at all times)
This is all that

Spear Wall is GREAT when your front is toward the enemy; you'll get malus against flanking, maybe, can't remember right now.

Spear wall (When combined with guard mode) makes you spear units keep the enemy at bay, units with shorter spears or swords can;t get in close enough to deal damage.

Attack speed: spear>sword>axe/mace (>two handed?). High attack speed is very useful because the enemy will get hit many times, and everytime it will trigger the "being hit" animation, that prevent him to fight back. Not a huge advantage, but still an advantage.

Huge advantage IMHO, spears are slower then swords though.

I don't think unit type means anything special. Maybe it's used by the AI when recruiting, a sort of priority in recruiting some type of unit depending on the AI behavior?

AI behaviour and some base stats like mass etc.

Swordsmen usually have higher Attack stat. Spear has bonus against cavalry, but malus in defense against swords (light_spear) or malus in attack (spear) IIRC. Axes/Maces have lower attack stat but have AP, that halves enemy armour value.

AP ignores half the enemy armour. Bonus against cavalry gives a fixed attack bonus versus cavalry (2-12 if I recall correctly)

So, swordsmen are good against anything, spear are good against cavalry and weak against swords, axe/mace-armed units usually lose against other intanfry but are GREAT against heavy armoured enemy unit (troll, you say?).

Correct.