[Research] Banners and flags - Post your sugestions.

[Bagatyr]

*** edited by Matthćus***

ALL BANNERS AND FLAGS CAN BE POSTED HERE ! (except already finished factions: Byzantines, Croats, Normans, Crete...)

just write an explanation what is what.

we need:
1) lombard (hard one to find )
2) turcoman
3) kiev
4) great moravia
5) sicily (muslim)

thanks Bagatyr for his contribution
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Here are the stone barelefs from Stara Zagora from IX-XI century -The era of Furst Bulgarian empire :

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also among bulgars we see a some quite strange tribute to a horsmen worrier - according to meny bulgarian historians this horsmen was a image to a bulgar god probably Siavush (Ziezi) that was mention as a father of bulgar people :

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from the tresure from Nagi sent miklosh :

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OMG ! I just reallyse that you have use some of the images of this bulgar trsure for the magyare shilds

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But anyways back to the Bulgarian flag.What i was saing was that the image of this horse worrier soon was
modified by the new bulgarian church into the image of St .George and St.Dimitrios so my point is that it can be still use as a flag for bulgarians maybe bagaturs witch patron saint George or Dimitrios where probably .

More ideas for flags are saints -

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-- This one is from Preslav dated from the time of Simeon The Great .

also from the seals of Simeon ( personally i thin that this are coins but our historians still debate )

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- here is titled emperor of bulgarians and romans but look the image of Jesus on a throne it could be a flag too .

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Also i notice that some of the flags of Bulgaria that gogo made he use a modern icons for Virgin Mary and Jesus please see some images of them from the period as those i give you from seals,coins and other stuff .You will see tipycal nedieval christian art

[AnthoniusII]

Most of the pictures that present mythological creatures are on the Bulgarian shields thanks to NikeBG and Petar (research) and Leif Erikson and Gogo-t (creation).

[FliegerAD]

first, thanks and rep.

OMG ! I just reallyse that you have use some of the images of this bulgar trsure for the magyare shilds

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This "bulgar trsure" is the Treasure of Nagyszentmiklós, Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien, and subject to much debate, both in dating and interpretation. Possibilites include the Avars, the Magyars, the Bulgars, and Khazars. In the past it was known as Treasure of Attila giving yet another interpretation (albeit an antiquated and most certainly incorrect one).
Claiming the imagery of this treasure for one faction alone would be inappropriate.

[Bagatyr]

Most of the pictures that present mythological creatures are on the Bulgarian shields thanks to NikeBG and Petar (research) and Leif Erikson and Gogo-t (creation)

my point is that meny of this images can be use as banners

[AnthoniusII]

By the time the banner carriers will be adde to this roster we will evaluate all these images!
Thank you my friend for your help+rep!

[Tureuki]

What about making that thread a common thread for posting banner&flag suggests for all factions ?

[Matthćus]

What about making that thread a common thread for posting banner&flag suggests for all factions ?

will change thread name

ALL BANNERS AND FLAGS CAN BE POSTED HERE !

just write what is what.

we need:

1) lombard (hard one)
2) turcoman
3) kiev
4) great moravia
5) sicily (muslim)

[Bagatyr]

i think that it will be a mess and it is better to have separet thread but don't maind even so

[Tureuki]

First I suggest Bow and an Arrow to Turcomans, Toghrul used it as a sign in everywhere, and of course bow and arrow had a role in the traditions, for examples early Seljuks continued an old tradition, sent arrows to allied&vassal tribes for invite them to army, Artuqids continued that tradition, enter the conquered cities with a bow on their shoulder of Sultans continued even in the late Seljuks of Rum era.

Secondly horse tail tughs should be used too.

there is many symbols via the Persian influence after the early period but I'm not sure if useful, Tamghas of some Oghuz tribes could be useful too.

[NikeBG]

Possibilites include the Avars, the Magyars, the Bulgars, and Khazars. Claiming the imagery of this treasure for one faction alone would be inappropriate.

While that may indeed be so, the Bulgars do have the strongest links, not only because some of the art on the vessels finds the most direct parallels with the art of the Bulgars, but at the very least because the non-Greek inscriptions are on the Bulgar language (Btw, here's a BG article about it for Bagatyr). Of course, that doesn't mean all of it is Bulgar-made (it's more than clearly a collection of vessels from all the Scytho-Perso-Byzantine world) or that the Bulgars were its last possessors. And particularly the first pic you quoted fits very well with Hungarian mythology, so I personally don't see a problem with using them for the Magyars as well.

[Bagatyr]

This "bulgar trsure" is the Treasure of Nagyszentmiklós, Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien, and subject to much debate, both in dating and interpretation. Possibilites include the Avars, the Magyars, the Bulgars, and Khazars. In the past it was known as Treasure of Attila giving yet another interpretation (albeit an antiquated and most certainly incorrect one).
Claiming the imagery of this treasure for one faction alone would be inappropriate.

There are so meny works of our historians and specialists about that treasure and they have investigate it meny times together with iranian,turkich,hungarian,german,avar and other specialists from the field of linguistics and culture and it is almost 80 % clear that was bulgar .The other version that could have sense is to have avar origine ... but magyare or huns ?! .Even the latest period that could be dated is in Bulgarian period of Transilvenia (before the magyare conquest ) when there are know magyares in the reagion .Also the inskript on the gold are on bulgar language with greek and we can even notice the title of the bulgar that have it .Also there are runes that we find in bulgars excavation.

Part of the treasure is roman and sassanid art and it seems that it was from plunder the rest have a steppe origin that was mostly bulgar and avar culture but i don't maind to use some ornaments for the magyare too after all they live togethr in the steppe for qute long

[Bagatyr]

And particularly the first pic you quoted fits very well with Hungarian mythology, so I personally don't see a problem with using them for the Magyars as well.

yes i agree i was surprise by the discovery not that i have something against its use for hungarians too

[Tureuki]

I guess its what I mentioned before

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Tamghas of the Oghuz tribes
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BC...Tamgalar%C4%B1

[Bagatyr]

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BC...Tamgalar%C4%B1

english please ...

[Tureuki]

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...uzTamgasEn.htm

[koultouras]

Lol if u guys find lombardic then u should also try the lottary....
(AND i mean smth that can be used as a banner...."photoshopable"

[Tureuki]

Btw, according to sources, Kara Arslan Kavurd Beg(son of Chagri Beg and founder of the Kirman Seljuks) also used the same symbol with Toghrul beg on his coins, dates of these coins going to 1075 and used on all of his coins, is it may be the family tamgha in the early Seljuks and may be fit for the faction symbol for mod ?

Page 189 for the symbol and 186 for the various tamghas
http://e-dergi.atauni.edu.tr/index.p...File/1701/1700

I hope we'll not see that green crescent&star flag in the mod

[diez]

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a kievan rus flag/banner from some re-enactment group.

[Dman1993]

Does anybody knows, was vexellum type banner used by byzantines? I means some kind of these:

[Bagatyr]

Banners and flags for Bulgarian faction :

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