[Preview] Map Preview time!

[husker9.2]

Hello all, this is an officially unofficial preview of the new map concepts for the new Chivalry II patch.

I hope this keeps you entertained and gets you pumped for this amazing patch, as if Rusbey's skins already dont have most of you foaming at the mouth.

This preview will help enlighten you loyal chiv II folk as too what changes where made, and why. Feel free too ask questions!

The preview is the Byzantines, i did a lot of rework here and also in France, North Africa, Saudi Arabia, and the Levant.


Here is the the radar map.


And below are the possible empire imitations a player can strive too achieve.

Blue is Komeneian Restoration 1



Green is Kommeneian restoration 2



Red is the Nicean Empire




Pre Manzikert Battle Empire/ Basil the II Empire




ERE vs Bulgarian Empire 2 stages / historical boundaries.

Black Bulgaria - Purple Byzantines




2 historical boundary




What do you think

[2Shy]

Great preview !
But as always I have some suggestions/complains. The Balkans dont have enough provinces compared with the other regions.I dont know how the map is in the new version, but in the old there are 2 settlements in Ireland and 2 in Sardinia !!! Not to mention that in the Greece region there are too much provinces which can be reduced. The bulgarian-serbian regions is represented by only Tarnovo, Ras and Skopije !!! There could be added 1-2 more provinces in this region (for example one for Serbia and one for Bulgaria) like Bdin, Drastar, Serdica, Bobovac and etc.

[Morfans]

What do you think

W O W !


But ... when ?!?!


We've been waiting for one year now

[Vipman]

This is great!

But unfortunately i have some complaints, or suggestions. as 2Shy said, there should be more regions in the balkans, at least 1, i suggest that serbia should be split in two regions (it looks like albania is part of serbia region) because it seems the biggest region. anyhow there must be more regions there. in my opinion it this is more important than all those regions in ireland, scandinavia, all those islands (especially sardinia with 2 regions) and the saharan region koumbi (or what it's name is) unless there would be new factions: ireland, norway, mali (?) and i don't think these factions will be in SV. if there should be a new faction in SV it should be Lithuania. i am sure that 1-2 regions can be removed from those places and added to the balcans.

also, again, i see that southern moldavia (Buceag) is part of Walachia region. i really don't think this is historical at all, and it doesn't make any sense. if i remember corectly, in 1400, earlier or later, Mircea the Elder annexed Dobrogea, which is south to Buceag, between Danube and Black sea, part of Bulgaria region, and it should look like vanilla m2tw region and modern Romania.

if i am wrong about southern moldavia, i hope someone corrects me, please, with some proof, for i never heard such a thing.

[2Shy]

This is great!

But unfortunately i have some complaints, or suggestions. as 2Shy said, there should be more regions in the balkans, at least 1, i suggest that serbia should be split in two regions (it looks like albania is part of serbia region) because it seems the biggest region. anyhow there must be more regions there. in my opinion it this is more important than all those regions in ireland, scandinavia, all those islands (especially sardinia with 2 regions) and the saharan region koumbi (or what it's name is) unless there would be new factions: ireland, norway, mali (?) and i don't think these factions will be in SV. if there should be a new faction in SV it should be Lithuania. i am sure that 1-2 regions can be removed from those places and added to the balcans.

also, again, i see that southern moldavia (Buceag) is part of Walachia region. i really don't think this is historical at all, and it doesn't make any sense. if i remember corectly, in 1400, earlier or later, Mircea the Elder annexed Dobrogea, which is south to Buceag, between Danube and Black sea, part of Bulgaria region, and it should look like vanilla m2tw region and modern Romania.

if i am wrong about southern moldavia, i hope someone corrects me, please, with some proof, for i never heard such a thing.

I totally agree with you exept with that part for Dobroja. Dobroja has always been part of Bulgaria in the medieval (680-late 14th century). But there should be Dobroja region with capital Drastar .

[Vipman]

I totally agree with you exept with that part for Dobroja. Dobroja has always been part of Bulgaria in the medieval (680-late 14th century). But there should be Dobroja region with capital Drastar .

i wanted to say that if Walachia should be expanded it should be Dobrogea, not Buceag. in medieval era yes, Dobrogea was part of Bulgaria, and it should remain so, unless only in Renaissance the map can be changed. it would be nice to change the regions between eras, but not sure if it's possible. if not, adding Dobrogea as a separate region would be very nice as well, but it would be quite small region and i'm not sure it's that important. as i said it's more important to split Serbia in two.

one more thing i'd like to ask and i'll say it in this post, will in SV4 more resources be added in eastern europe/balcans? in my opinion at least Walachia should have grain and Moldavia wine. these regions can't have nothing. and maybe in Banat and Transilvania wood, and even gold in Transilvania, though i'm not sure it was extracted in medieval times, but today there is talking about Rosia Montana in Transilvania where there are some hundreds of tones of gold. the romans could'nt have take all the gold

[VINC.XXIII]

I seen the changes about Georgia/Kilikia/Krimea, love it!
+REP

Also guys, the stone forts are well-working if the AI is fitting, we just lack some complex PSF as Housekeeper or Dots team developed.
All the problem actually its to make emerging a garrison in a "lambda" fort.

Lithuania is planned as well for future version, the actual issue is Great-Moravia/Bohemia.



PS: Transilvania had his saxons pionners, and saxons were expert about extraction of metal

[2Shy]

I know that there are PSF but in my opinion they cant replace the settlements.The settlements present important region which played some roll in history.
I know that it cant be helped but you cant convince me that Ireland and Sardinia needs two settlements (PSF are more suitable for them).

[VINC.XXIII]

with 199 regions its not possible, the PSF would create some strong points, actually the gameplay is "soviet", you can do whatever you want in your province, there not "alternativ forces", such as peasant/communal rebels or feudal ones.
I will anyway propose to SV to lock some settlements, to simule a certain "autonomy", via some undestroyable buildings. Historical social/ethnic entities would be added to these systems as rebels or at contrary as recruitable soldiers for player/AI.

That would represent the fact for example than a french king must choose between support the communes/fight the nobles or at contrary punish the communes/increase the feudal forces in his kingdom.

[2Shy]

This can be done by decisions like in DotS.
The PSF may work for the AI but for player they don't because they don't pay taxes and can't recruit units from them.

[husker9.2]

Great preview !
But as always I have some suggestions/complains. The Balkans dont have enough provinces compared with the other regions.I dont know how the map is in the new version, but in the old there are 2 settlements in Ireland and 2 in Sardinia !!! Not to mention that in the Greece region there are too much provinces which can be reduced. The bulgarian-serbian regions is represented by only Tarnovo, Ras and Skopije !!! There could be added 1-2 more provinces in this region (for example one for Serbia and one for Bulgaria) like Bdin, Drastar, Serdica, Bobovac and etc.

ok good too see replies! lets star with yours.

This is but the begining if i have it my way. there will be much more. but bear in mind it may not be what you want.
This map's goal is too allow the players too recreate different empires, but too also keep the AI's expanding in historical directions and at a reasonable rate.

i am weary of giving the both of these countries too many provinces, Serbia had its day, and you can recreate their and Bulgarians empires with this current version too an extent. but i dont want too give them too many provinces so that they easily overpower the Romans, Hungarians, Venetians, the traditional powers of the era.


next question.

"also, again, i see that southern moldavia (Buceag) is part of Walachia region. i really don't think this is historical at all, and it doesn't make any sense. if i remember corectly, in 1400, earlier or later, Mircea the Elder annexed Dobrogea, which is south to Buceag, between Danube and Black sea, part of Bulgaria region, and it should look like vanilla m2tw region and modern Romania.

if i am wrong about southern moldavia, i hope someone corrects me, please, with some proof, for i never heard such a thing."

when you look at many different maps, the few i listed below give you an idea, You see Bulgaria having sway over this region several times, due too some restraints at the moment i wasnt able too make a southern Moldavian province like i wanted, but i will in future versions. this is simply a bandaid for this version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu..._(893-927).svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ca...n_Assen_II.png

question 3

"i wanted to say that if Walachia should be expanded it should be Dobrogea, not Buceag. in medieval era yes, Dobrogea was part of Bulgaria, and it should remain so, unless only in Renaissance the map can be changed. it would be nice to change the regions between eras, but not sure if it's possible. if not, adding Dobrogea as a separate region would be very nice as well, but it would be quite small region and i'm not sure it's that important. as i said it's more important to split Serbia in two.

one more thing i'd like to ask and i'll say it in this post, will in SV4 more resources be added in eastern europe/balcans? in my opinion at least Walachia should have grain and Moldavia wine. these regions can't have nothing. and maybe in Banat and Transilvania wood, and even gold in Transilvania, though i'm not sure it was extracted in medieval times, but today there is talking about Rosia Montana in Transilvania where there are some hundreds of tones of gold. the romans could'nt have take all the gold"

I will consider adding more provinces too serbia, no guarantee's though, especially due too the easy pickings in the adriatic and illyrian states too the northwest. but if i have room than yes.

i can not comment on additional resources, that is 100% up too SV, i am only do regions and cities at the moment.



keep the questions rolling! i did redo more than the balkans afterall . i think i may have too do a preview on them as well .

[VINC.XXIII]

"i think i may have too do a preview on them as well"

Have you the map's new texture such as the one then SV used for Scotland(the one which fit to southern lands, indeed)

[Vipman]

thanks for reply, husker9.2 . maybe i over-reacted a little, but if i were some ultra-nationalist i would ask much more. i can live without gold and other stuff but seriously i think that every province must have 1 resource of something, wool, wood, whatever.

about Bulgaria and southern moldavia, thanks for the info. i really forgot about that. this would represent better first 3 eras so it's ok. it would be better if it were a separate region, and i hope it will be done in next patch if not in 4.0.

now that i think about it Serbia could be too powerfull with 3 regions, so i will just say that any new region in balkans that deserves to be there should be ok.

also i forgot to say that georgia really looks awesome, and same to crimea and all regions in Turkey, especially Cilicia. and thanks for thinking about Southern Moldavia (Buceag). sorry for not complimenting your work first time. i'll say it again, the little nationalist in me over-reacted a bit, sorry again.

i hope to see more of your work and previews.

[2Shy]

I gues that you have a point (about the balancing) but but with this map my empire is ... 3 provinces which is totaly unfare because the Balkans in the place with the most stone castles/forts per square km in Europe. And usually the romans and the bulgarians were the traditional powers in the balkans until mid 14th century when Sebia rised. The venetians and the hungarians were never big players on the balkans.
Just to mention the biggest battle in medievla was between romans and bulgars - the Battle of Achelous

About the moldovia region - actually in the early 14th century the Golden Horde khan gave it to the bulgarian tsar as a gift.

But tell me why Philipopolis isn't regions when it was the third biggest city on the Balkans (nearly 20 000 people compared to London which in this time was village) ?!?
And tell me please how the two regions in Ireland, the two regions in Sardinia and the five in Greece help for the balancing ...

[husker9.2]

thanks for reply, husker9.2 . maybe i over-reacted a little, but if i were some ultra-nationalist i would ask much more. i can live without gold and other stuff but seriously i think that every province must have 1 resource of something, wool, wood, whatever.

about Bulgaria and southern moldavia, thanks for the info. i really forgot about that. this would represent better first 3 eras so it's ok. it would be better if it were a separate region, and i hope it will be done in next patch if not in 4.0.

now that i think about it Serbia could be too powerfull with 3 regions, so i will just say that any new region in balkans that deserves to be there should be ok.

also i forgot to say that georgia really looks awesome, and same to crimea and all regions in Turkey, especially Cilicia. and thanks for thinking about Southern Moldavia (Buceag). sorry for not complimenting your work first time. i'll say it again, the little nationalist in me over-reacted a bit, sorry again.

i hope to see more of your work and previews.

no need too apologize. constructive criticizim is good. i appreciate your thoughts. and yes there will be a southern Moldavia. but probably not for 4.0. SV want this patch out ASAP, and any major map overhaul (moving provinces is more work than it sounds, trust me ) would derail his plans.


next :

"I gues that you have a point (about the balancing) but but with this map my empire is ... 3 provinces which is totaly unfare because the Balkans in the place with the most stone castles/forts per square km in Europe. And usually the romans and the bulgarians were the traditional powers in the balkans until mid 14th century when Sebia rised. The venetians and the hungarians were never big players on the balkans.
Just to mention the biggest battle in medievla was between romans and bulgars - the Battle of Achelous

About the moldovia region - actually in the early 14th century the Golden Horde khan gave it to the bulgarian tsar as a gift.

But tell me why Philipopolis isn't regions when it was the third biggest city on the Balkans (nearly 20 000 people compared to London which in this time was village) ?!?
And tell me please how the two regions in Ireland, the two regions in Sardinia and the five in Greece help for the balancing ..."

I had nothing too do with the original map. SV did somewhat i believe but i am pretty sure it is from the regions and provinces mod.

With that said i reiterate that this is but the tip of the ice burg, this map features a simplified version of a much more complex system.
In the system i intend too implement Ireland and sardinia will only have one region. regions like Poland will have 3 provinces.

This system centers around conflict, areas were conflict was common, Balkans, Anatolia, The Levant, France, Italy, and Spain, will reflect the shifting borders caused by war.

For the new patch (4.0) the map you guys have seen above will be the feature, but in future version Me and SV will work too slowly implement my system.

The Bolded part.

Quit wrong, Venice strived too control the coast, and sunk a lot of time and money too do this.
The Romans and hungary butted heads often, most notably the Serbian rebellion, from wiki, but reliable.

"Manuel forced the rebellious Serbs, and their leader, Uroš II, to vassalage (1150–1152).[39] He then made repeated attacks upon the Hungarians with a view to annexing their territory along the Sava. In the wars of 1151–1153 and 1163–1168 Manuel led his troops into Hungary and a spectacular raid deep into enemy territory yielded substantial war booty. In 1167, Manuel sent 15,000 men under the command of Andronikos Kontostephanos against the Hungarians.[40] Kontostephanos scored a decisive victory at the Battle of Sirmium which enabled the Byzantine Empire to conclude a very advantageous peace with the Hungarian Kingdom by which Syrmia, Bosnia, and Dalmatia were ceded. By 1168 nearly the whole of the eastern Adriatic coast lay in Manuel's hands.[41]"

The two often were the major power brokers in the region during the medieval era. Bulgaria not too be excluded of course.

The italicized part.

In future versions Philipopolis will be on the map, its just a matter of time till it is implemented. Many of the Romans founded towns that the slavic folk took over became massive, and very important in the medeival era. I will strive too represent those, i promise .

Thanks for the questions. if you guys have any more keep them coming.

[2Shy]

I'm clad that Poland will have more provinces- they deserve it !
Venetians became "player" with the decline of the byz empire in the 14th century when the empire didn't have fleet and money (and menpower).
The only time Hungary and the Roman empire shared common border was 1024-1187 ( the time frame between the two bulgarian tsardoms). Of course with the rise of Hungary in 14th century it became threat to the Balkan factions (Serbia,Bulgaria and Wallahia) .
I hope to fulfill their promise.
And if I forgot - great preview ! +rep

[husker9.2]

I'm clad that Poland will have more provinces- they deserve it !
Venetians became "player" with the decline of the byz empire in the 14th century when the empire didn't have fleet and money (and menpower).
The only time Hungary and the Roman empire shared common border was 1024-1187 ( the time frame between the two bulgarian tsardoms). Of course with the rise of Hungary in 14th century it became threat to the Balkan factions (Serbia,Bulgaria and Wallahia) .
I hope to fulfill their promise.
And if I forgot - great preview ! +rep

Thank you .

The way i understood it The romans and hungarians often butted heads. while they didnt always have a border they often held vassalage over the border kingdoms and fiefdoms.

These states usually being Serbia, Croatia, Dalmatia, and others.

I say Venice mainly because this map has too serve the many era's chivalry covers. it would be amazing if i could customize a map for each era, and we can, but the amount of work would be daunting.

thanks for the rep and the great questions!

[VINC.XXIII]

I made some actualizations of the map Renaissance

Le Mans changed to Bern(for a Swiss wall between HRE/France)
And Devon changeg to Banja Luka with strong bosniac rebels.

Swiss and Bosnia are two things very importants to represent in map.
Also Husker, SV didn't said he wanted lockdown some french provinces?
I means to block the building/recruitement, would be nice to block the troops itself

[husker9.2]

I made some actualizations of the map Renaissance

Le Mans changed to Bern(for a Swiss wall between HRE/France)
And Devon changeg to Banja Luka with strong bosniac rebels.

Swiss and Bosnia are two things very importants to represent in map.
Also Husker, SV didn't said he wanted lockdown some french provinces?
I means to block the building/recruitement, would be nice to block the troops itself

Im not sure..... It has been some time ago.

France was a major rework will need too post pics some time.

[Constantius]

Firstly well done look forward to new map, two questions if I may, does the map extend a little further east? and will there be those bright borders on released map? oh and +REP