20 Years of Independence for NKR

[PointOfViewGun]

But according to the 1990 Soviet law titled "Law of the USSR Concerning the Procedure of Secession of a Soviet Republic from the USSR," provides that the secession of a
Soviet republic from the body of the USSR allows an autonomous region and compactly
settled minority regions in the same republic's territory also to trigger its own process of
independence.

Would be better if you actually quoted the law itself.

Azerbaijan's constitution says it is the successor of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918-1920, Karabakh was transferred to Azerbaijan while they were under Soviet rule in 1923-24 so even there constitution says Karabakh shouldnt be part of Azerbaijan.

Being successor of anything doesn't limit you to it.

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That's a rather technicality though. If it's really that jolly good that NKR established it's "independence" how come Armenia haven't recognized it?

[Armenum]

That's a rather technicality though. If it's really that jolly good that NKR established it's "independence" how come Armenia haven't recognized it?

Because it would derail the current peace negotiations that have been worked on for quite some time. However, if Azerbaijan attacks NKR and starts a war (thus destroying the negotiations all together), then Armenia has promised to recognise NKR.

[gago]

Would be better if you actually quoted the law itself.




Being successor of anything doesn't limit you to it.

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That's a rather technicality though. If it's really that jolly good that NKR established it's "independence" how come Armenia haven't recognized it?

I cant find that whole law for some reason, here is the Soviet constitution http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/...ons03.html#top

The reason why Armenia has not recognized Karabakh's independence yet is because of the peace process but the President of Armenia has stated if Azerbaijan starts another war the first thing Armenia will do is recognize Karabakh's independence.

[PointOfViewGun]

Armenian President also called for future Armenian generations to invade Eastern Turkey as well...

[karo]

Armenian President also called for future Armenian generations to invade Eastern Turkey as well...

Can you provide a source where he said that?

[PointOfViewGun]

Can you provide a source where he said that?

There you go.

[Armenum]

Armenian President also called for future Armenian generations to invade Eastern Turkey as well...

What he said was rather vague and open-ended, Turkish media took it and stretched it:

Erdogan Inadvertently Publicizes Armenian Territorial Claims from Turkey
– AUGUST 19, 2011
By Harut Sassounian,
Publisher, The California Courier

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan’s hysterical outburst at Armenia’s President last week had the salutary effect of publicizing to a worldwide audience Armenian territorial demands from Turkey!

By distorting and exaggerating Pres. Serzh Sargsyan’s remarks to a group of schoolchildren in Dsaghgatsor, Armenia, on July 23, Erdogan created a gigantic mountain out of a molehill! Anyone who reads the Armenian President’s actual words would find it hard to believe that they could be the cause of Erdogan’s foaming at the mouth!

Krikor Hampartsumian, a Shahumian Middle School student from the Ararat Region, asked Pres. Sargsyan: “…I would be interested in knowing whether our future would be reminiscent of a German diplomat’s description of the Batum Agreement — they gave us enough room to swim in Lake Sevan, but not enough room to dry up — or a future that would see the return of Western Armenia along with Ararat?”

Pres. Sargsyan calmly responded: “It all depends on you and your generation. I believe my generation fulfilled its task when it was necessary in the early 1990’s to defend a part of our homeland — Karabagh — from enemies. We were able to do that…. My point is that each generation has its own task, and it must be able to carry it out, and carry it out well. If you and your peers spare no effort, and if those older and younger than you act the same way, we will have one of the best countries in the world. Trust me, a country’s clout is not always measured by its land mass. The country should be modern, secure, and prosperous. These are prerequisites that allow a nation to sit along with prominent, strong, and reputed nations of the world. We should all fulfill our duties, be active, industrious, and engage in good deeds. And we can accomplish that very easily. It would not be the first time in our history that we achieve it. I have no doubts about it, and I don’t want you to have any doubts either. We are a nation like a Phoenix that always rises from the ashes.”

This simple exchange between the President and the young student was blown out of all proportion by Azeri and Turkish officials. Journalists in both countries tried to outdo each other in their hysterical attacks on Armenia, accusing Pres. Sargsyan of “urging Armenian youth to occupy Mt. Ararat and Eastern Turkey.” Insulting adjectives were hurled at Armenia’s President by Turkey’s Prime Minister Erdogan, Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinch, Minister Egemen Bagis, Pres. Ilham Aliyev of Azerbaijan, and the Foreign Ministries of both countries. To incite the masses, protests were organized in Turkish cities where photographs of Pres. Sargsyan were burned!

Incredibly, Erdogan had the audacity of demanding an apology from Pres. Sargsyan. The Turkish Prime Minister’s score on failed demands for apology from the leaders of Israel, Germany, and Armenia now stands at 3 to 0. Erdogan should not hold his breath waiting for Armenia to apologize! Before making such an outrageous demand, Turkish leaders must first apologize for the 1.5 million victims of the Armenian Genocide, and return all confiscated Armenian properties, including Western Armenia and Mt. Ararat, as suggested by this erudite student who deserves to be honored by Armenian organizations as a role model for the young generation.

What was the real cause of the Turkish and Azeri hysteria? Did Erdogan have a bad translator or simply bad intentions? It is probably the latter. He delivered his outrageous remarks while standing next to Pres. Aliyev during a press conference in Baku last week. Erdogan may have wanted to impress his “junior brother” with his anti-Armenian zeal and provide a false justification to the international community for not keeping his word on the Armenia-Turkey Protocols and refusing to open the border with Armenia. He may have also intended to be excessively harsh so that no Armenian official would ever again hint at territorial claims from Turkey.

This episode demonstrates that papering over historical injustices by pressuring Armenia to sign defeatist Protocols will not eliminate the deeply-held grievances of a victimized people. The Armenian-Turkish confrontation will not be resolved until justice is done to the Armenian nation. Pursuing justice is the task of all Armenians, this generation and the next. There will be no peace for Turkey without justice for Armenians!

In addition to their gratitude to the impressive youngster and Pres. Sargsyan, Armenians should be thankful to Prime Minister Erdogan for his hysterical overreaction which helped bring Armenian territorial demands to the attention of the international media and the world community!

[karo]

There you go.

Can you quote now the part where he calls for an invasion, I didn't see it there.

[PointOfViewGun]

He was certainly not talking about making a visit to Van with flowers and candies.

[karo]

He was certainly not talking about making a visit to Van with flowers and candies.

But do you have a quote of him calling for an invasion of Turkey? Yes or no?

[white-wolf]

What he said was rather vague and open-ended, Turkish media took it and stretched it:

Either way, he was not mentioning sending flowers and such to Turkey.

[Armenum]

Either way, he was not mentioning sending flowers and such to Turkey.

The simple question here is when and where was he saying for the younger generations to "invade" Turkey? Is there a specific place where he says that? If not, then don't say that the President was saying that.

We all know how well the media can take something and stretch reality.

[PointOfViewGun]

But do you have a quote of him calling for an invasion of Turkey? Yes or no?

Let me quote the article Lord Mov provided instead:

Krikor Hampartsumian, a Shahumian Middle School student from the Ararat Region, asked Pres. Sargsyan: “…I would be interested in knowing whether our future would be reminiscent of a German diplomat’s description of the Batum Agreement — they gave us enough room to swim in Lake Sevan, but not enough room to dry up — or a future that would see the return of Western Armenia along with Ararat?”

Pres. Sargsyan calmly responded: “It all depends on you and your generation. I believe my generation fulfilled its task when it was necessary in the early 1990’s to defend a part of our homeland — Karabagh — from enemies. We were able to do that…. My point is that each generation has its own task, and it must be able to carry it out, and carry it out well. If you and your peers spare no effort, and if those older and younger than you act the same way, we will have one of the best countries in the world. Trust me, a country’s clout is not always measured by its land mass. The country should be modern, secure, and prosperous. These are prerequisites that allow a nation to sit along with prominent, strong, and reputed nations of the world. We should all fulfill our duties, be active, industrious, and engage in good deeds. And we can accomplish that very easily. It would not be the first time in our history that we achieve it. I have no doubts about it, and I don’t want you to have any doubts either. We are a nation like a Phoenix that always rises from the ashes.”

Now, without any retarded nationalistic feeling think if Erdogan said such a thing about a question where it was asked if Armenia will ever be part of Turkey.

[karo]

Let me quote the article Lord Mov provided instead:



Now, without any retarded nationalistic feeling think if Erdogan said such a thing about a question where it was asked if Armenia will ever be part of Turkey.

The president is answering to a student that if he and the generation to come want to get something they have to work and improve their country first before starting dreaming about something else. It's only the Turks that are seeing things that aren't there and are totally off topic.

[PointOfViewGun]

The president is answering to a student that if he and the generation to come want to get something they have to work and improve their country first before starting dreaming about something else. It's only the Turks that are seeing things that aren't there and are totally off topic.

Nope, you're just trying to read it the way you want and it's quite pathetic to defend the guy. He should have simply told him that he shouldn't have such irredentist view of the world.

[karo]

Nope, you're just trying to read it the way you want and it's quite pathetic to defend the guy. He should have simply told him that he shouldn't have such irredentist view of the world.

Is that what Turkish politician say? Is that what Alijev says when talking about Armenia and Armenians? Don't forget that you last time where claiming that Alijev never threatened Armenia or Artskah(NK), now you are here claiming that the Armenian president is calling for an invasion just because you interpret his words that way.

[PointOfViewGun]

Is that what Turkish politician say? Is that what Alijev says when talking about Armenia and Armenians? Don't forget that you last time where claiming that Alijev never threatened Armenia or Artskah(NK), now you are here claiming that the Armenian president is calling for an invasion just because you interpret his words that way.

They never tell anyone that they can take over more land in the future if they work hard enough for it!

[Atabeg]

"Emil Sanamyan"

Really? What is next? Serzh Sargsyan?

Also funny thing he talks about artillery. Azerbaijan signed one contract with Israel's IMI in 2008 worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and another contract with Turkish Roketsan in 2010 worth 250 million USD, these for rocket artillery. In addition, Azerbaijan will sign a contract with Turkish MKEK for T-155 Firtina self-propelled howitzers worth around 200 million USD.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-a...-deal-1.254650
http://www.trdefence.com/2011/04/18/...to-azerbaijan/
http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=143840

[karo]

They never tell anyone that they can take over more land in the future if they work hard enough for it!

Why are you putting words into his mouth? He never said something like that, it's your interpretation of his speech.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why are you putting words into his mouth? He never said something like that, it's your interpretation of his speech.

He did say that.