If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
This has always had me vexed. In literature and movies, the forces of "evil" are not often given strong motives for their malice or their world-conquering ways, or it isn't made clear what a certain villain would achieve if his plans had succeeded - and this would appear to me (as someone who has only read the Hobbit, and the LOTR trilogy) to be the case for Sauron and his orc armies. However I don't really want to discuss the motives of Sauron - I'm more interested in what he would've done with Middle Earth had he conquered it.
Below is a version of events that I believe could easily have occurred, had things been a little different...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Sam didn't manage to rescue Frodo from Cirith Ungol, he then gets captured/killed and the ring is taken from him. Sauron, having control of the ring, regains his earthly form and leads his armies across Middle Earth, kicking some serious butt. The remaining fellowship members who had gathered at the Black Gate are wiped out, (including Aragorn and Gandalf) along with the armies of the Men of the West, who are slaughtered to the last man. Sauron strikes across the Anduin through the ruins of Osgiliath and finishes sacking Minas Tirith (which is left defenceless), slaughtering and enslaving all who remain there. The armies of Sauron continue their rampage across the lands of Men, leaving Gondor and Rohan in flames, while goblins and mountain orcs pour from the Misty Mountains, overwhelming Rivendell. Dol Guldur unleashes its armies on the Elves of Mirkwood, driving them west towards Lindon where they sail to the Undying Lands with the remaining Elves of Middle Earth. The dwarves are swarmed with goblins, and eventually fall after years of sieges. Sauron turns his attention to Eriador and swiftly crushes the last remaining resistance of the "Good" peoples of Middle Earth. The Men of the West are exterminated or enslaved, and Sauron rules unopposed.
tl;dr version:
Sauron conquers all of Middle Earth, the Elves are hunted down and sail west, the men of the West are exterminated/enslaved, the dwarves are over run by goblins and are wiped out.
1. What does Sauron do next?
2. What happens to his armies of orcs?
3. Having conquered all of Middle Earth, what will Sauron do with its lands?
I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear the ideas of you fellow forum-goers
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by brasswire
Build up a huge army, construct a great navy, and attack Valinor.
Actually, it would more likely have gone along the lines of The Valar coming over and crushing Sauron under thier thumb. The only reason they didn't come help earlier is because Men still could have won by themselves, and the last time they fought a war in middle earth, it left a large area in unlivable ruin.
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Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by TWWolfe
Actually, it would more likely have gone along the lines of The Valar coming over and crushing Sauron under thier thumb. The only reason they didn't come help earlier is because Men still could have won by themselves, and the last time they fought a war in middle earth, it left a large area in unlivable ruin.
I know very little of the peoples of lands beyond Middle Earth, (having not read the Silmarillion) and so had not even considered outside intervention as it were. To be honest, I just find it difficult to imagine what orcs would do if they had nobody to fight! Orcs are bred for war and battles, for pillaging and slaughter - what would they do if they had no enemies to speak of? Would they begin to contruct their own culture and commerce?
Orcs live hundreds of years, a lot of time to sit around and do nothing :]
EDIT:
Originally Posted by Incomitatus
Sauron's motivation is to turn Middle Earth into a fortress while finding a way to release his master, Melkor. The elves would be driven out, men enslaved. The dwarves would retreat into their mighty fortresses or fall into darkness as they did before. In the end, the Valar would probably intervene, eventually.
Sauron's motivations are much more clear, albeit only implicit, if you read The Silmarillion.
I had actually forgotten that Sauron was himself inferior to a greater power. So would a war between the forces of Melkor and the Valar begin?
Last edited by mattttb; August 30, 2011 at 07:08 PM.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by mattttb
I know very little of the peoples of lands beyond Middle Earth, (having not read the Silmarillion) and so had not even considered outside intervention as it were. To be honest, I just find it difficult to imagine what orcs would do if they had nobody to fight! Orcs are bred for war and battles, for pillaging and slaughter - what would they do if they had no enemies to speak of? Would they begin to contruct their own culture and commerce?
Orcs live hundreds of years, a lot of time to sit around and do nothing :]
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Sauron's motivation is to turn Middle Earth into a fortress while finding a way to release his master, Melkor. The elves would be driven out, men enslaved. The dwarves would retreat into their mighty fortresses or fall into darkness as they did before. In the end, the Valar would probably intervene, eventually.
Sauron's motivations are much more clear, albeit only implicit, if you read The Silmarillion.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
1. He would build up coast defences everywhere and prepare for the assault of the valar, and build's thousands and thousands of ships to attack valinor if they dont attack him.
2. All the armies will continue to train and fight for the next war, the men of the east and south can go back to their families untill the next call.
3. Sauron would destroy all that is good, and all of Middle Earth would look like mordor with evil creatures living everywhere freely.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Yeah he would probably turn Middle-Earth to a Mordor much like it all burned and billions of orcs. Of course the Valar will come to intervene but they would destroy all left in Arda they power is too much for the earth. like happend in Numenor and in the First Age.
Besides Sauron can be defeated he know hes coming back at the Dagor Dagorath with Melkor.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
@Dutch-Balrog, I wasn't really aware that Orcs had a particularly advanced culture. I just can't imagine them tilling fields and raising children - are there even such things as female orcs?
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by mattttb
@Dutch-Balrog, I wasn't really aware that Orcs had a particularly advanced culture. I just can't imagine them tilling fields and raising children - are there even such things as female orcs?
This is alot like female dwarves just because they aren't there doesn't mean they don't exist
Yep you mean Ulmo and by the way didn't Saurons ring make him nearly as powerful as a Valar could of swore I read it somewhere. But anyways he would sooner or later have to attack the Valar since Morgoth can't return from the Void while the Valar control it. So he would probably build his empire up stamp out the very few who could or would resist and then begin building some kind of insanely powerful army to challenge the Valar and ally with the forgotten evil powers of the world (like dragons and the Balrog).
Last edited by The Mouth; August 30, 2011 at 07:34 PM.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by The Mouth
Yep you mean Ulmo and by the way didn't Saurons ring make him nearly as powerful as a Valar could of swore I read it somewhere. But anyways he would sooner or later have to attack the Valar since Morgoth can't return from the Void while the Valar control it. So he would probably build his empire up stamp out the very few who could or would resist and then begin building some kind of insanely powerful army to challenge the Valar and ally with the forgotten evil powers of the world (like dragons and the Balrog).
Thats HIM! but I disagree I'm pretty sure the Valar and elves that fled would come quickly while there was still hope of saving middle-earth
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
sauron wouldnt attack valinor becouse he was on numenor when valar destroy it-and he save his ass in last sec-so he would wait for them to come to him and try to ambush them-becouse they can be killed..
but i think that he would have unrest in oomm and rhun and harad-they will keep him buisy
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
Originally Posted by mattttb
This has always had me vexed. In literature and movies, the forces of "evil" are not often given strong motives for their malice or their world-conquering ways, or it isn't made clear what a certain villain would achieve if his plans had succeeded - and this would appear to me (as someone who has only read the Hobbit, and the LOTR trilogy) to be the case for Sauron and his orc armies.
Melkor and Sauron are given motives though. They desried to rule Middle Earth and dominate others; to subject their order and will upon all of Middle Earth. (and all of Arda)
However I don't really want to discuss the motives of Sauron - I'm more interested in what he would've done with Middle Earth had he conquered it.
Below is a version of events that I believe could easily have occurred, had things been a little different...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Sam didn't manage to rescue Frodo from Cirith Ungol, he then gets captured/killed and the ring is taken from him. Sauron, having control of the ring, regains his earthly form and leads his armies across Middle Earth, kicking some serious butt. The remaining fellowship members who had gathered at the Black Gate are wiped out, (including Aragorn and Gandalf) along with the armies of the Men of the West, who are slaughtered to the last man. Sauron strikes across the Anduin through the ruins of Osgiliath and finishes sacking Minas Tirith (which is left defenceless), slaughtering and enslaving all who remain there. The armies of Sauron continue their rampage across the lands of Men, leaving Gondor and Rohan in flames, while goblins and mountain orcs pour from the Misty Mountains, overwhelming Rivendell. Dol Guldur unleashes its armies on the Elves of Mirkwood, driving them west towards Lindon where they sail to the Undying Lands with the remaining Elves of Middle Earth. The dwarves are swarmed with goblins, and eventually fall after years of sieges. Sauron turns his attention to Eriador and swiftly crushes the last remaining resistance of the "Good" peoples of Middle Earth. The Men of the West are exterminated or enslaved, and Sauron rules unopposed.
tl;dr version:
Sauron conquers all of Middle Earth, the Elves are hunted down and sail west, the men of the West are exterminated/enslaved, the dwarves are over run by goblins and are wiped out.
One small point for the sake of lore. Gondor and Rohan were not left defenseless. Aragorn and Theoden both left sizable armies to defend their homelands. Certainly, Sauron (with the ring) would triumph, but it may have taken several years. And don't forget about Bombadil: "I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come."
1. What does Sauron do next?
2. What happens to his armies of orcs?
3. Having conquered all of Middle Earth, what will Sauron do with its lands?
I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear the ideas of you fellow forum-goers
I'm not so sure Sauron would have tried to conquer Valinor. He already tried it once and failed miserably. I think he would have been content to rule Middle Earth.
Last edited by StealthFox; September 01, 2011 at 03:13 PM.
Re: If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
^well, he didn't try to conquer it the first time. it was more along the lines of "Corrupt one of my oldest opponents and get them destroyed in a futile war against Valinor. if they do some damage before they die, so much the better."
His one little mistake was that he didn't expect the Pelori mountains to crush Ar-Pharazon and his army before they could do any fighting, and he didn't expect Numenor to go all Atlantis and sink under the sea.
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If Sauron and his armies had conquered Middle Earth, what would they have done with it?
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Originally Posted by brasswire
stupid orcses
