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Thread: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod V2 (For Patch 3.06 - Updated 10-27-2011!)

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    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod V2 (For Patch 3.06 - Updated 10-27-2011!)


    Hey mates! So really this submod is to help educate many of the modern people about some of the warfare of this era - this mod already does such a great job, there's not much to change! But one huge misconception is the idea of the "Germanic heavy cavalry". In truth, heavy cavalry of this era were not what they were of vanilla Medieval's time frame. Heavy Cavalry were essentially just massively armoured men put on top of a horse. The cavalrymen of this time period's favorite tactic was hit and run; due to the couched lance which was developed much later in history, these horsemen didn't have the penetrating power to break infantry formations, nor were their war horses trained to do so. So to get the enemy to move around a bit, they instead threw their spears like massive javelins into the formation, and then mop up the survivors with their sword.

    HISTORICAL INFORMATION:
    The Carolingian cavalry - under Charles Martel - were certainly known to employ the charging tactics of the Byzantines, Avars and Lombards that were the predecessors of the Medieval heavy cavalry. But when engaged in some of their more recent enemies, such as the Saxons, they were faced with a problem. The Saxons (and many other Germanic tribes) employed use of the Shield Wall formation. The troops would form a battle line 2 or 3 men deep, with interlocking shields at chest- and leg-level. This formation was practically impenetrable; in fact, it was so effective that it was used for thousands of years! However, it had one weakness. When the formation was broken, the individual was helpless. So for that, the "heavy" cavalrymen developed a new tactic of breaking the enemy formations; throwing their spears like javelins or stabbing into the ranks as they rode past the shield. After their spears were gone or they felt like they had come close enough to death, they feigned retreat as many armies had done. When the infantry broke formation to chase them, the cavalry turned and cut them down with their swords (as seen in the Battle of Hastings).

    Other changes: Magyar cavalry stats have been fixed with Real Recruitment standards. They are still a tough fight, but not as hard as before!

    NOW RELEASED!
    Installation instructions:
    1) Extract "export_descr_unit" to Last_Kingdom/data
    2) Extract "battle_models" to Last_Kingdom/data/unit_models
    3) Boot up the game and provide feedback for Heathen
    Last edited by Heathen Storm; February 24, 2012 at 05:37 PM.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


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    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    So is it just the Continental cavalry that will change? Norman/Franks?
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    So is it just the Continental cavalry that will change? Norman/Franks?
    Yes. I will change the Bodyguards animation to spear, but all other cavalry of these two factions will be changed to javelin. Which is done, now I just need to balance and test it

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    danova's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Storm View Post
    Yes. I will change the Bodyguards animation to spear, but all other cavalry of these two factions will be changed to javelin. Which is done, now I just need to balance and test it
    But in this case the early (viking) norman bodyguard will use spear... the converter can't convert the animation!
    .

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    I'll definetly try this when it comes out.
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    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Storm View Post
    Yes. I will change the Bodyguards animation to spear, but all other cavalry of these two factions will be changed to javelin. Which is done, now I just need to balance and test it
    Will you change the model so that they carry Javelins? Otherwise they will throw spears and javelins will fly through the air won't they?


    Quote Originally Posted by danova View Post
    But in this case the early (viking) norman bodyguard will use spear... the converter can't convert the animation!
    .
    Would it be completely ahistorical to give them spears instead?
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

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    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    Quote Originally Posted by danova View Post
    But in this case the early (viking) norman bodyguard will use spear... the converter can't convert the animation!
    .
    I believe they only use sword. IIRC

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    Will you change the model so that they carry Javelins? Otherwise they will throw spears and javelins will fly through the air won't they?
    No, because what they threw were actually large spears, so they will carry spears. And its hard to see the javelins/spears anyways
    Last edited by Heathen Storm; August 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    You can always ask the creators TGC:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=440077

    Milites Normanii (Early knights)

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin von Carstein View Post
    You can always ask the creators TGC:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=440077

    Milites Normanii (Early knights)
    Haha i'm helping on TGC actually. But no I won't ask to use that, Danova's style of units and Abs/Matt's style of units are very different. I'll just use what we got

    EDIT: MOD IS RELEASED!
    Last edited by Heathen Storm; September 02, 2011 at 06:27 PM.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    I downloaded. It looks a little funny, but the effect still is.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin von Carstein View Post
    I downloaded. It looks a little funny, but the effect still is.
    What do you mean? I am curious.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    It is through these very long spears, which are part of the model. Now they have to do for javelins.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin von Carstein View Post
    It is through these very long spears, which are part of the model. Now they have to do for javelins.
    Yes, they are supposed to be throwing long spears - not javelins. The warriors actually threw their spears. Unfortunately the minimum amount of ammo is 2 rather then 1, so it's obviously not perfectly accurate

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Installed the submod and really liked it, it actually demands more focus on your cavarlry than just sending them right in.
    Perfect idea my friend.

    Just 2 cents..
    The minimum amount of ammo is 2 right?, but sometimes i see the same guy launching 2 or 3 "spears".
    Also hey tend to go full gallop, stop, wait 4 seconds and then shoot, and not all at the same time..
    Obviusly its little bit more complicated than just tweaking some stuff but would be great if thhey could react faster.

    P.S.
    I know it shouldnt be posted here but officer on units, specially east frankish units is a must, dont they have a proffesional army?

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Juan View Post
    Installed the submod and really liked it, it actually demands more focus on your cavarlry than just sending them right in.
    Perfect idea my friend.

    Just 2 cents..
    The minimum amount of ammo is 2 right?, but sometimes i see the same guy launching 2 or 3 "spears".
    Also hey tend to go full gallop, stop, wait 4 seconds and then shoot, and not all at the same time..
    Obviusly its little bit more complicated than just tweaking some stuff but would be great if thhey could react faster.

    P.S.
    I know it shouldnt be posted here but officer on units, specially east frankish units is a must, dont they have a proffesional army?
    Yeah unfortunately that's just a vanilla problem but I found a good - and historical - way around it. I'll post some screens up!
    And thanks for your support and feedback mate! I suppose I could increase my submod to add officers and such... but I think that will have to be after my mod is released or the modeling is done. I can model but I'm the only modeler in my mod and i'm trying to finish 200+ units. Besides... I'd have to get Danova's permission to use his units as well.
    Last edited by Heathen Storm; September 06, 2011 at 09:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    I was thinking of doing a unique bodyguard for the Uí Néill which is basically ridire bodyguard with javelin and without shields. I was just wondering if that would be in your opinion way off the mark historically in Ireland? And if it is historical then any suggestions on stats?
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    I was thinking of doing a unique bodyguard for the Uí Néill which is basically ridire bodyguard with javelin and without shields. I was just wondering if that would be in your opinion way off the mark historically in Ireland? And if it is historical then any suggestions on stats?
    Well I don't know a whole lot about Irish warfare.... I don't know how good Irish horses were in this period. I certainly haven't come across any sources that say they were plentiful, or very good if they were there. So I would say it should most likely be a foot bodyguard. Really I think the only thing that a horse would be used for in Ireland were cattle raids. And if you do use horses - which in my opinion is a bit of a stretch - then they certainly should not be shieldless. I highly doubt any kind of bodyguard would go shieldless unless they were using a 2 handed weapon.

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    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Storm View Post
    Well I don't know a whole lot about Irish warfare.... I don't know how good Irish horses were in this period. I certainly haven't come across any sources that say they were plentiful, or very good if they were there. So I would say it should most likely be a foot bodyguard. Really I think the only thing that a horse would be used for in Ireland were cattle raids. And if you do use horses - which in my opinion is a bit of a stretch - then they certainly should not be shieldless. I highly doubt any kind of bodyguard would go shieldless unless they were using a 2 handed weapon.
    Yeah i get the impression that they would have ridden to battle and dismounted since the horses tended to be not much more then ponies. Cheers anyway, i'll have to think of something else for a unique unit
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Are you going to make a new update compatible with the latest patch?
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    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: Heathen Storm's Not-so-heavy-cavalry submod [NOW RELEASED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincinatus View Post
    Are you going to make a new update compatible with the latest patch?
    Right now it is compatible with version 3.06, as soon as the next version comes out it will be very easy to update.

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