Faerûn[Forgotten Realms]TW - v0.2 released, check the first post

[vercassivelaunos]

I would replace Haalrua. They would be boring. Or you could make them unplayable, so it will be harder to conquer the region. The unconquerable (does this word exist?) regions sound good. We have a desert you can't conquer in Tamriel: Total War.

And an idea for units:

Neverwinter Greycloaks:
The standard soldiers of Neverwinter. They wield a sword, carry a shield and wear chainmail armor.

Greycloak Bowmen:
Same as above, but with a bow instead of sword and shield.

Palace Guard(can't remember the real name):
They guard the palace of Neverwinter, and probably the other palaces and castles of the Lord's alliance. They wear heavy plate armour and wield a twohanded sword.

Monks of (a different deity for different factions; e.g. Tyr for Lord's alliance):
Elite fighters without weapons or armour (would need a new animation). Though they have no armour, they should have a very high armour defense and a high defense ability/shield. This resembles the fact that they don't care if they are attacked from their front, from behind or with missile weapons. They feel that they are being attacked and can even catch arrows out of the air. The armour would save them from attacks with missile weapons(even crossbows, that's why they need a very high armour defense) and from behind, while their defense ability saves them from armour piercing close combat weapons. However, in the description they should have no armour and a very high defense ability.

Clerics of (like monks):
Wear heavy armour and wield a mace. Should either be able to chant or have the command attribute, which raises the morale of allied units near them.

[hekk]

Oh man, words aren't enough to explain how awesome it would be to see this mod come to light.

I'm a big FR fan and got loads of sourcebooks (2nd edition ones and 3rd edition), I'd love to help out with lore stuff, if you guys have any need of it.

Some ideas for factions:

Dwarves:

- Kingdom of Adbar (Shield Dwarves)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel_adbar

Elves:

Elves of the High Forest

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Capital: Rheitheillaethor
Government: Chiefdom
Ruler: Siluele Taemelsin
Population: 29,088 in the High Forest
Races High Forest :
Elves 52%,
Gnolls 12 %,
Centaurs 10 %,
Orcs 10 %,
Humans 6%,
Half-Elves 4%,
Half-Orcs 3%,
Halflings 2%,
Other 1%.

The High Forest is a remnant of the days of old, when all of Faerûn was covered in green and elves, giants and dragons ruled the world. The forest is a vast region of old forest growth bounded by the Nether Mountains in the north and the High Moor to the south. To the west is found the Evermoors and to the east the vast desert of Anauroch. The eastern border of the High Forest butts up against Delimbiyr Vale through which flows the Delimbiyr River.

In 1344 DR, the Elven Retreat had begun, flocks of elves sought to finally leave Faerun for the Emerald Isle of Evermeet. One of those groups of elves that did not leave however, were the elves of the High Forest. These elves were keen of defending the massive forestland from the forces of evil that invade it.

They also wish to expand their hold within the forestlands, in hopes they can manage to re-establish the ancient kingdom of Eaerlann, that had fell during a demonic invasion some hundred years ago.


Strengths:
Powerful archers, good skirmishers

Weaknesses:
Few cavalry units

Cities
- Rheitheillaethor
- Stronghold of the Nine

Examples of Possible Units
Regional
- Justice of Weald and Woe (Medium Archer)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These are elves have who bear hatred against humans and non-Elves who threaten ruin to the lands of the elves. These elves are highly trained and experienced with archery, and bring a dangerous volley of death upon their enemies.

They are often also associated with the Eldreth Veluuthra, an order of elves who wish to bring devastation and purging of blood upon the human folk.

Idea for units:

Gold Dwarves of the Great Rift
- Gold Rift Deep Defender (Elite Heavy Infantry)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is based on a PrC from the Shining South book (3rd edition). These would essentially be some of the best shock infantry units the Great Rift dwarves would have to offer.

[Vladyvid]

I'm a big FR fan and got loads of sourcebooks (2nd edition ones and 3rd edition), I'd love to help out with lore stuff, if you guys have any need of it.

Help of any big FR fan is most welcome and desired.
If you are willing to share some of the information you have in your books, advice or ideas, feel free to do so - it would be greatly appreciated! PM me if you are interested.

Some ideas for factions:

Some interesting ideas for sure, but at this moment we should probably leave them for later additions. For two reasons, one is that in that area there are already quite many factions. Besides, I was rather thinking that Adbar would be part of the Silver Marches than a faction in its own right. I don't mean that the shield dwarves were not a faction only that limitations of TW force me to make decisions against some of the smaller, or more local, factions. If we get the 24 factions to work, I will start adding additional ones up to whatever the limit is, 29, 31? Then both the shield dwarf and elvish factions could be implemented.

Thanks for the info about units, will be helpful aswell!

vercassivelaunos, some nice unit ideas there!
I'm curious about the monks. Were they used in battles or were they part of standing armies? I know what kind of monks you're talking about but I doubt there would be enough monks to create army formations. Or I'm just not familiar with the usage of monks as soldiers. Would these monks willingly obey any lord or king to join the wars and fight at any given time? Or perhaps such monks would rather be available only in special circumstances, like for example religious fanatics/pilgrims in M2TW that we can only get during a crusade? My bet would be the latter.

Lord's Alliance could possibly field dozens of different unit types, as each of it's cities had its own armies, there were various mercenaries from north and south, and finally many different fighting orders. For example Baldur's Gate had the mercenary company called The Flaming Fist, which was an army in its own right. At this stage any information about possible units could be useful, so keep it up!

BTW I found that most cities or city-states used mercenary companies exclusive to that city. Which in effect worked as a professional regular standing army - they were mercenaries but they were not available to anyone only to the specific city or faction.

[Vladyvid]

Hey look what I just found on FR wiki, its pictures of all major faerun human ethnicities:


Calishite, Tethyrian, Damaran, Mulan, Illuskan, Rashemi, and Chondathan
I think it's rather accurate. The chondathan is actually wearing Cormyr''s coat of arms, but chondathan doesn't only mean someone from Chondath itself but is an enthnicity of many nations, one of them Cormyr apparently.
What strikes me the most is that Tethyrian soldier has the symbol of Selune on his shield:

Could be a good hint for Tethyr's coat of arms. Calishite woman is wearing green, probably good idea for the main colour of Calimshan aswell.

[hekk]

Hey look what I just found on FR wiki, its pictures of all major faerun human ethnicities:


Calishite, Tethyrian, Damaran, Mulan, Illuskan, Rashemi, and Chondathan
I think it's rather accurate. The chondathan is actually wearing Cormyr''s coat of arms, but chondathan doesn't only mean someone from Chondath itself but is an enthnicity of many nations, one of them Cormyr apparently.
What strikes me the most is that Tethyrian soldier has the symbol of Selune on his shield:

Could be a good hint for Tethyr's coat of arms. Calishite woman is wearing green, probably good idea for the main colour of Calimshan aswell.

Yeh I can't exactly explain the Selunite symbol on his shield. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting source book tells us that the main religions of Tethyr are Helm, Ilmater, Siamorphe, Torm and Tyr.

Illuskan are basically all the North-Western peoples. Luskan, Neverwinter, Icewind Dale, etc. They are essentially a Scandinavian-like/British-like people.

Also another ethnicity not included in that illustration is Chultans. They essentially resemble Africans south of North Africa.

Also to the East Corner of Faerun, in the place known as the Hordelands, there's loads of Mongolic people from the eastern continent of Kara-tur (which is essentially the Forgotten Realms equivalent of Asia) known as the Tuigans. They're situation in Faerun is kind of like that of the Huns and Mongols in Europe, with them being horse-archers that have invaded the region.

The Mulans or specifically the Mulhorandi, are Ancient Egyptians. And they are that quite literally, as the story behind them in FR is that they were brought to Faerun from Earth as slaves, through portals used by the ancient wizards of Imaskar. Their culture is very much similiar with that of the ancient Egyptians, and they have their own pantheon of gods modelled after the Egyptian gods.

[Vladyvid]

Good info there hekk, though I knew the ethnicities on that picture I posted are not all of the human enthicities, but its major ones of faerun itself.

I've done some work with the symbols, now I need help to decide which ones are best.


1 - Silver Marches
2,3 - Chondath
4,5,6,11,12 - Tethyr
7 - Shadovar
8,9 - Calimshan
10 - Zhentarim

If everyone could say which ones of the multiple choices would you pick and why?

[hekk]

If possible, I think this would be a more appropriate symbol for the Zhentarim.



I think the other one is from 4th edition.

I like the 9th faction icon for Calimshan. It seems aesthetically better.

This is a wild-shot, but maybe a genie bottle on the faction icon beneath or over the sword might look neat additionally? Calimshan was once ruled by genies, and there are legends around that some Calishites still bear their blood which explains their prowess in wizardry.

I like the red faction icon for Chondath.

For the Silver Marches, there is this illustration of a Knight-Errant of Silverymoon (from the Silver Marches sourcebook) who has this white crescent symbol with a blue background on his armour. Seeing as Silverymoon leads that federation, it could be an appropriate symbol.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For the Shadovar's symbol, I'm not sure a dragon would be appropriate (I don't think they have any association with dragons). Maybe Shar's symbol would be better, since the Shadovar are not only worshippers of her, but they are heavily dependent on her for their existence and for the ability to cast spells.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, I'd like to say, I think it might be a good idea indeed to replace Halruaa with another faction. Halruaa is a magocracy, and they mostly have mages at their disposal. That might be difficult to try and represent in the Med 2 engine. Personally I would vote for Dambrath (ruled by a half-drow aristocracy, with humans mostly in servitude), as they've got a mostly cavalry based army, and they are noted for having some of the best horses in all of Faerun. Also, they could get lizardfolk mercenaries from the nearby Rethild Swamp (which is sort of like a Lizardfolk kingdom), and dark elf mercenaries from T'lindhet (a Drow city they have close connections with).

[Vladyvid]

Thanks for this quick feedback, here are two symbols you suggested:


For Shadovar the dragon was suggested by another researcher. I'll look into that tomorrow.

[hekk]

Thanks for this quick feedback, here are two symbols you suggested:


For Shadovar the dragon was suggested by another researcher. I'll look into that tomorrow.

Excellent work!

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

looking good! my only suggestion is now that you have begun actual development
you change the threads name to indicate it is a "real" project and not some nice notion
perhaps something like "Faerun Total WaR: A time of Conflict

[MedievalDragoon]

If you are thinking of getting rid of cardinals then why not make Clerics(Class) the priest unit,
and maybe give a three temple option like they did in Rome, if possible?

Just a suggestion, thinking about it I don't think that their is really any overall spiritual leader in Faerun, so I don't the papal system would really fit that well.

[Clansman117]

Hello, almost done with some new symbol ideas, should be done by mid-day tomorrow. I think that getting rid of Halruaa for now could be a good idea, although I also think Tashalar is another good canidate for postponing for later. On one hand the south would be pretty empty, on the other hand it would open up more room for more influential factions. For symbols, I like 3 for Chondath, 9 for Calimshan, and for Tethyr I think 6 with 11 and 12's colors might be best. And let me say again you do great work. To answer Hekk's questions, I don't have the Silver Marches book (didn't even know there was one until now, which surprises me). and came up with that symbol as I thought it fit, but I do like the official symbol better and thank you for finding it. The Zhentarim symbol is actually third edition, from the main book. It does seem that the Zhentarim have a huge number of symbols. Shadovar's symbol is a dragon because in 4th edition their leader is said to always wear a cloak with a large purple dragon on it. I'm also not to sure a papal faction would work too well, but I'm usually cynical anyway.

[Vladyvid]

you change the threads name to indicate it is a "real" project and not some nice notion
perhaps something like "Faerun Total WaR: A time of Conflict

Yes I forgot to do it before.

If you are thinking of getting rid of cardinals then why not make Clerics(Class) the priest unit,
and maybe give a three temple option like they did in Rome, if possible?

I woudn't want it to be like in rome where after you build one temple you can only build larger temples for that specific diety. Here, I would rather have multiple temples for each faction.

I'm not very fond of priests, cardinals, or princesses characters on the campaign map, at least not in their original role. If these can be modded to represent other characters and have some other functions they could be useful. Cleric sure sounds proper, but it would be good to give them more functions than just spreading the religion, if possible.

Just a suggestion, thinking about it I don't think that their is really any overall spiritual leader in Faerun, so I don't the papal system would really fit that well.

I'm also not to sure a papal faction would work too well, but I'm usually cynical anyway.

Ok, but can the papal faction be turned into a regular faction? If yes, then why not, but if not then it's like considering removing one faction completely?

Hello, almost done with some new symbol ideas, should be done by mid-day tomorrow. I think that getting rid of Halruaa for now could be a good idea, although I also think Tashalar is another good canidate for postponing for later. On one hand the south would be pretty empty, on the other hand it would open up more room for more influential factions.

Very well, I will remove Halruaa and Tashalar from the initial selection. For now let's focus on the confirmed factions, and we will add more after we get the initial ones to work.

For symbols, I like 3 for Chondath, 9 for Calimshan, and for Tethyr I think 6 with 11 and 12's colors might be best. And let me say again you do great work.

Cool then it seems for Calimshan we will go with the option 9, and I also like purple Chondath cause its more distinctive and there isn't yet a faction with purple colour as their main colour. For Tethyr I will work a little more on some ideas but other guys please give your opinions about Tethyr aswell. Great work is an overstatement - I'm simply adding patterns to templates I made earlier, but I'm glad you like it.

The Zhentarim symbol is actually third edition, from the main book. It does seem that the Zhentarim have a huge number of symbols.

We will have to come to some consensus here, and decide the main symbol for faction icons. Additionally, other symbols can and will be used on their battle flags. I wish we had this kind of problem with every faction.

I'm going to edit the first post now.

[vercassivelaunos]

The monks should be very small units, but powerful. They wouldn't really obey to a lord, but they will perform the will of their deity, and monks of Tyr for instance could seek to do justice upon the enemies of Neverwinter/the Lord's alliance.

About the symbols:
I'd chose 2, 5 and 9. The moon does not fit Calimshan, as it is a muslim symbol, and not just an Arabic one.

Edit: I think it would be time to found a social group for the mod, so we can organize things better.

Edit2: I don't like the Zentharim symbol with the "z" in it. Looks like the symbol of a Marvel super hero. But the Silver Marshes look good.

[Vladyvid]

Some people like the red Chondath symbol and some others the purple one, I can make new one that is half red and half purple, or with 4 fields two of each colour, so everyone will like it at least partly. Or I will make "FC Barcelona" red and purple stripes.

I'm also not very fond of the "Z" symbol for similar reasons.

How do we make a social group? Should I contact some moderators about it?
Edit: OK I created a social group, sending you invites.
Edit 2: Removed Banehold from the faction list. I mean if the campaign starts in 1372 (which I do consider as a better starting date), would there be still the Banehold faction around? At this moment let's focus on the factions we have on the list. Later we could discuss more factions like: Halruaa, Tashalar, Lapaliiya, Dambrath, Impiltur, Thesk, Hillsfar, Raven's Blluff, Shadowdale (or other dale) or some elvish (eladrin) factions.

[vercassivelaunos]

Do you want me to organize it a bit? I'm in 3 similar groups already, and they are well organized.

[Vladyvid]

Sure if you want to do it, do I have to give you any permissions (technical stuff I mean) or can you do it right away?

BTW I've been thinking about a certain idea:

Having in mind that some of the factions are ruled by female rulers (eg. Silverymon, Aglarond, Rashemen) I was thinking how could we possibly have generals/faction leaders who are not necessarily all male. Could it be possible to have both male and female generals (and other characters like spies etc.) by creating gender traits?

Only that it would have to correspond with the proper gender character portraits and names. The princesses would be completely removed, and wives would not be wives anymore, could call them all "spouse" with a generic image of a sort?

Then in my idea both men and women could inherit the throne. Ofcourse it could be different for each faction (or faction group), but do you think it would be possible to implement it?

[hekk]

About the Z symbol

Well, it's the only one appropriate to our time line that I could find. Personally I'm not very fond of 4th edition, as it changed Faerun a lot (and in bad ways, imo), so I would hesitate using any material from it.



Could also possibly use Bane's symbol, as Bane is the principal deity of the Zhents.

On FR wiki, there are two Zhentarim symbols described as this

"Dark skull emitting black rays on a golden disc or a black scepter emitting a green rays on gold disc, clutched in the talons of a black wyrm"

edit:

I checked up Lords of Darkness (3rd edition sourcebook) and found something reminiscent of your old faction icon for the Zhents. So yeah, my bad. :p



edit edit:

btw, guys I found a very useful site on wizards.com. It's got an art gallery of all illustrations & symbols from all the 3rd edition sourcebooks.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/ag

Sure if you want to do it, do I have to give you any permissions (technical stuff I mean) or can you do it right away?

BTW I've been thinking about a certain idea:

Having in mind that some of the factions are ruled by female rulers (eg. Silverymon, Aglarond, Rashemen) I was thinking how could we possibly have generals/faction leaders who are not necessarily all male. Could it be possible to have both male and female generals (and other characters like spies etc.) by creating gender traits?

Only that it would have to correspond with the proper gender character portraits and names. The princesses would be completely removed, and wives would not be wives anymore, could call them all "spouse" with a generic image of a sort?

Then in my idea both men and women could inherit the throne. Ofcourse it could be different for each faction (or faction group), but do you think it would be possible to implement it?

I'm not sure this could work in the M2TW engine, unfortunately.

I think this could result in like princesses getting princesses as spouses, and them getting children (which doesn't make much sense, unless they adopt ones), or men getting men as spouses.

You either have to make faction characters entirely patriarchal or matriarchal. Either men become generals and women are represented as just wifes, or only women can become generals and men are represented as just husbands.

If you want to make one faction matriarchal, I think you'll need a culture slot to do it too.

[vercassivelaunos]

I don't need any special permission. I only asked, before I throw up your plans ^^

Hekk is right with the male/female thing

Edit: I have now organized the group. Be aware, that there are two pages of threads. And you should accept Vladyvid's invitations

[hekk]

Found these symbols from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3rd edition). http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...010614a&page=4

Lord's Alliance:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Red Wizards: (This could work as a symbol for Thay)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Waterdeep:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: