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Thread: CATW - Suggestions and comments

  1. #81

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    pink elephants?



    >>>India<<<
    When Alexander conquered north western India he left behind several satraps. In only 3 years 323-320 BC the entire north west had been fully occupied and defeated. These satraps left by Alexander were conquered but this was not to say there was not a vestige of Greek culture left in the area.

    Chandragupta Maurya had taken advantage of the power vacuam and tumult in the wake of Alexander's death to form what would become one of the largest political and military empire in ancient India. The Mauryan Empire!

    It was founded in 321 BC and with an area of 5,000,000 km2, it was one of the world's largest empires in its time, and the largest ever in the Indian subcontinent and the Mauryan Empire was perhaps the greatest empire to rule the Indian subcontinent until the arrival of the British.

    The population of the empire has been estimated to be about 50-60 million making the Mauryan Empire one of the most populous empires of the time. Along with a military of 600,000 infantry, 30,000 cavalry, and 9,000 war elephants!

    As far as I know ancient Indian warfare which was heavily based on elephants and the chariots. We will be focusing heavily on getting those things first. As we post, the current CATW map is being changed into Anarchon's version which has been worked on for 5 years. It has intimate historical details such as names,regions, key towns/cities etc all covered in exquisite detail.







    >>>Factional Decisions<<<
    We are busy making decisions as to which factions are best to replace/take out and or merge. Also, CATW may soon become an alexander only release as we plan to take full advantage of the extra 256 model spaces we have to work with there.

    Though I should mention Baktria, the faction that has the ability to march west into Seleucid territory, north into Scythian territory, east into indian territory and further east into Xiongnu territory would be rather interesting. So we do have many plans and as I just mentioned the Xiongnu empire is in the works to. Though a historical inaccuracy and inclusion of the Zhou, Qin or Han Empires into the Xiongnu and simply call them the Asian Confederacy. That might be more interesting and a more fun campaign for the varied units? Either way here is a write up on the Xiongnu which were a confederacy of nomads. The Qin and Han came 50 years after the current campaign start. However,they lasted until the end.








    >>>Xiongnu/Qin/Han Kingdoms(The Three Kingdoms??)<<<
    I like to think of the Xiongnu as the early Huns. They were certainly similar although our basis of information comes from translations of Chinese transcripts about them. From what we gather they were an ancient nomadic based people. Their relationship with the Chinese dynasties were confusing to say the elast, with repeated periods of military conflict though it alternated with exchanges of tribute, trade, and marriage treaties. There were petty raids on China, particularly against the states of Zhao and Qin although the nomads were the barbarians which the Chinese built the Great Wall to defend from. Before the great wall there were beacons and other organized defenses made to prevent the nomads from enroaching to far into their territory.

    At one point the King of the Zhou dynasty, You by name had a wife named Bao Si. Bao was a low born peasant who entered into the kings favour and eventually ousted his queen. He made Bao his new queen and they did not live happily ever after. She was a melanchony person of great beauty and the king would grant people a reward if only they could make her laugh. Someone at the court suggested lighting the warning beacons usually used to summon armies from the surrounding vassal states in times of danger. The nobles duly arrived at the court only to find themselves laughed at by Bao Si. The King continued to abuse the warning beacons in order to make Bao laugh until the nobles lost their trust in the beacons and simply stopped coming.

    The queen he had deposed of had an angry father who mounted an attack on King You's palace in conjunction with Quanrong nomads. King You called for the nobles with the beacons but none came. In the end, King You and Bofu were killed and Bao Si was captured at Xi (戲/戏). King You's death marks the end of the Western Zhou Dynasty and the beginning of the Spring and Autumn Period of the Eastern Zhou Dynasty.

    The Eastern Zhou dynasty was lasted a great deal longer as something similar to the feudal system. The kings of this dynasty eventually had their authority undermined and became insignificant figure heads. Which is one of the reasons I am considering merging all 3 dyansties. Perhaps even naming them 'The Three Kingdoms'.









    Edit:

    >>>Qin<<<
    The Qin dyansty was a powerful millitary empire. Though after the death of the first king his son became a chesspiece of the eunachs at court (historically eunachs were kept since real men could confuse blood lines and it made kings feel safer). He was eventually killed in the scheming produced by the eunachs and in the turmoil after a Chu lieutenant seized power and established the Han dyansty in aprox 250BC.

    >>>Han<<<
    The Han Dynasty was an age of economic prosperity and saw a significant growth of the money economy first established during the Zhou Dynasty (c. 1050–256 BC). To pay for its military campaigns and the settlement of newly conquered frontier territories, the government nationalized the private salt and iron industries in 117 BC. These government monopolies were repealed during the Eastern Han period, and the lost revenue was recouped through heavily taxing private entrepreneurs. The emperor was at the pinnacle of Han society. As I mentioned they had emperors not kings.

    The Han dynasty also drove out the Xiongnu and had several sucessful millitary campaigns etc. They were a force to be reckoned with.

    Accordingly if the proposal to call them 'The Three Kingdoms' and historical innacuracy is approved then their units will be a mix of foot infantry and cavalry. The chinese also had some good crossbowmen outclassing the gaestrophes of the greeks. I have a couple of units in mind for them already.









    Edit#2:

    I seem to have forgotten Baktria.

    >>>Baktria<<<
    Alexander conquered Sogdiana and Iran. In the south, beyond the Oxus, he met strong resistance from the natives. After two years of war and a strong insurgency campaign, Alexander managed to establish little control over Baktria which he was annoyed at. After Alexander's death, the Macedonian empire was eventually divided up between generals in Alexander's army. Baktria became a part of the Seleucid Empire.

    The Macedonians, especially Seleucus I and his son Antiochus I), established the Seleucid Empire and founded great many Greek towns. The Greek language became dominant for some time there which speaks volumes in itself.

    Strangely enough, Greek culture was more prominent in Baktria than in areas far closer to Greece! This can possibly be explained by past deportations of Greeks to Baktria. During the reign of Darius I, the inhabitants of a Greek city were deported to Baktria for refusing to surrender assassins.

    Xerxes also settled the descendants of Greek priests who had once lived in western Asia Minor who had betrayed the temple to him. Interesting fact, Herodotus records a Persian commander threatening to enslave daughters of the revolting Ionians and send them to Baktria.

    The Greco-Bactrian empire was completely overthrown though, first by the Sakas, and then by the Yuezhi,who had conquered Baktria by the time of the visit of the Chinese envoy Zhang Qian (circa 127 BC), who had been sent by the Han emperor to investigate lands to the west of China. (which makes for a good alternate history campaign eh? )

    This does not mean that mass deportations of Greeks were the norm for that time, it does mean that Baktria had a heavy prescence of Greeks and Greek descendants. It also means that Baktria had a great selection of Greek and native units. It has several options in which to expand but also the possibility of war on many fronts!
    Last edited by z3n; November 09, 2012 at 11:33 PM. Reason: added han dynasty/qin info & baktria info
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  2. #82
    Anarchon's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Hi Antiochos,

    Yes Resef and I are discussing Baktria.
    Currently he sees it as a separate faction.
    But it only became a separate state around 250bc and was a bastion of Seleukid power until then.
    So I would prefer to start game with Baktria as a Seleukid area.
    But... the adjoining Paropanisadai (Alexandria-Kapisa and the Khyber valley) as part of a Greek faction.
    (Which also contains Greek states all over the map.)
    If you want to play Baktria, choose the Greeks and put emphasis on Paropanisadai and initially capturing (or purchasing/exchanging) Baktria.
    My map contains ALL of India, and Kathaian Sagala/Sangala is one of the states.
    So expansion into India would be possible.
    Your opinion of this way of handling Baktria is sought.

  3. #83
    Anarchon's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Hi Resef,

    I tried to look around Alexandria from the city browser.
    But got a crash and the same error message which you said was related to Galatian cities.

    I note you have no descr_lbc_db file in CATW/data.
    Could this be the cause?

    Wanted to see if you had used this to spice up what wanders round cities when you view them.
    I added dogs, pigs, horses (and elephants where appropriate.)
    And 5 sets of female peasants in appropriate proportions to the faction.
    And a representative set of the factions units.

    It adds to the fun of viewing cities

  4. #84

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Hi Anarchon, that could very well be the cause of it. I think your right but I never had the time to fix the loading start up crash (start up crashes are almost something to do with text files,geography.db or any other type of db).



    If anyone has anything to add to the discussion on Baktria and any other factions feel free, Anarchon suggested in an earlier email that we put faction choices up for a vote. I think we should decide (in this thread) which factions should go up for a vote here and then go from there.
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  5. #85
    Anarchon's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Just to clarify, What we want to know is which states folk would like to see as game factions. ie playable.
    That is either ones currently used by RTW or CATW e.g. Numidia, Carthage, Armenia, Germans, Bellovaci etc
    OR states not currently used as factions e.g. Baktria, Chinese, Slavs, Maurya, Arabia etc

  6. #86

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Well Baktria had some significance back in its time, as well as some contact with chinese merchants if I remember correctly, so they may be a good option. The Yuezhi will also be an interesting choice.

  7. #87
    Basileos Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Baktria, Maurya, Arabia (Nabateans) Pergamon these are the factions I would like, in-case I hadn't already made that clear




    http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/TWCSoarin/Basileos_zps3ab217ac.png[/IMG]






















    [IMG]

  8. #88
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    You wouldnt mind the Seleukid Empire losing Baktria?
    Surely Seleukos Nikator & Apameia would be horrified! :-)

    Seriously, what do you think of having (in 275bc) proto-Baktria (Paropanisadai) and proto-Pergamon (Mysia) as sub-factions of a Greek faction. Which also held Greek territories elsewhere, Massilia, Syrakuse, Sinope etc. And leaving Baktria under Seleukid faction?
    As a player, you could change capital and leader to whichever you wanted of the regions under Greek faction control.
    And focus your attention on that particular region while leaving the others under city AI.

    Similarly, for Nabataia, what do you think of having it as one of the territories under an Arabian faction based in Arabia-Eudaimon?
    As a player, you could switch the capital to Nabataia if you wished. And same points as above.

    Maurya are almost certain to get included soon. So even if no Baktrian faction, you could lead a Seleukid expedition to Palimbothra. :-)

  9. #89
    Anarchon's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Hi B257,
    Yes, as you will see from reply to Antiochos, Baktria is being seriously considered.
    Yue-zhi would be interesting. We are looking into having 2 Skythian factions and Yue-Zhi could head the eastern one.
    Probably not possible if we include the Chinese, as they would be in the same territories.
    But we shall consider this. Thx for the feedback!

  10. #90
    Basileos Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    I think a Greek faction is good, but I think Baktria and Pergamon deserve their own slots. But as I said I am a big fan of the Hellenistic kingdoms and in particular the Seleukids and Indo Greeks

    PS Those elephants are great




    http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/TWCSoarin/Basileos_zps3ab217ac.png[/IMG]






















    [IMG]

  11. #91

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Would it be possible to have an alternative eras campaign, like the ones in RS2 and Extended Cultures, that could possibly work for factions like Indo-Hellenic kingdoms, Pergamon and Baktria, Start small and work your way to the top.

  12. #92
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Hi B257,

    Weird, I was just mulling that thru. Shall need to discuss with Resef.
    Because different faction sets would fit different eras better.
    Baktria is appropriate c 250bc to 150bc?.
    Having only each era's 'free and big' powers as factions would make choosing easier.
    Perhaps plus a 'no particular date' generalized campaign. 2012ad? :-)
    eg, for the Thraikians, the game-faction could be the Odrysians, Triballi, Getae, Bessi, Dacians, each in a different campaign.
    Ditto for most 'barbarian' peoples.
    Carthage would disappear after 3PW, Macedon also.
    Pergamon appears some time round 250bc.
    Shall examine in more detail and discuss logistics with Resef.
    Thx Muchly.

  13. #93

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    The best way to go about having different campaigns/factions would simply be to release an alternate version of CATW. It's much easier for coding and logistics purposes. That may be far off, if even existant in the future.

    That option also demands that there be more units, variety, faction symbols etc. So it will be looked at albeit very carefully and with some apprehension by me. *laughs*

    For now I suggest we focus on factions in the next versions. Seems like Mauryan Empire/Some type of Chinese empire are both in. Baktria also looks like its in. If anyone disagree's let me know.
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  14. #94
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    If we have a start date of somewhere between 250BC and 220BC I would be happy to include Baktria.
    (And not 305bc or 275bc or 270bc)
    There are some huge advantages to doing this anyway, especially 220bc
    We get 2PW and Hannibal, Philip V, Antiochos III, Baktria, Scipio
    Can drop Epeiros as a faction.
    Shall mull it over.

  15. #95
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    Opinions:

    1) B-E-A-U-tiful elephants....

    2) Yep, drop Epeiros

    3) Support for Antiochos' eastern ideas.


  16. #96
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    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    And smack in the time of the terra-cotta army in China!

  17. #97

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    That's a good point, Epeiros can go, that makes some more room. hmm, Bellovaci are going and possibly another galliac/germanic faction. Feel free to suggest one. Anarchon argued that the western parts are crowded while the eastern parts are isolated.
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  18. #98

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    I agree, there's too much of a party going on in the west while in the east it's an utter dull fest, I already killed the Parthians and Armenians as the Seleucids so Now my east is secure and I have more flexibility to move west.

  19. #99

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    That's settled then, I don't think anyone disagree's with that.
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  20. #100

    Default Re: CATW - Suggestions and comments

    I think this was already decided, but I wouldn't remove Epirus because of the variety of options they have.

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