So the Senate income is stupid

[Pontifex Maximus]

And I'm changing it.

Here's our map:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think I am going to make every little bordered region we have worth 650 denarii per turn in tax revenue. So when we annex more territory, income will increase. When we lose territory, it will decrease etc. Eventually I want to to implement a way for the Senate/Proconsuls to use public works as a way to increase income from certain regions, but that will have to wait.

We have 62 shaded regions, so that works out to 40,300, roughly what the Senate makes yearly. This change makes it so that as the empire expands, the military can keep up. With a base income per year eventually the Senate will reach the max amount of upkeep that can be paid and that will be the end of it. That is too limiting.

[Junius]

I assume the 650dn is tax revenue? Perhaps in the territories where the populace have been made citizens that is cut, perhaps to 200dn, or even 0, signifying the loss of tax revenue. It would be a con of extending citizenship to more regions.

[ForteS]

That's a good suggestion, but not all regions give the same profit as it's obvious, those that have mines etc are more profitable, anyway that would make it more complex.

[Aetius]

Ya lol I was wondering why our income was static, good call.

Provinces should definitely not be equal income though.

three classes

wealthy - 900
average - 600
poor - 300

I will come up with a draft sometime.

And citizenship does have a nasty effect of cutting tax revenue.

[PatrickR]

Great idea - and what Aetius say is true.

It shouldn't be too hard to do some research as to which areas were more profitable - part of it is commen sense, with those areas in Hispania, Southern Gaul, Italia, the Hellenic nations and Carthage being richer on the coast (either because of former Hellenic colonoies or because of good trade connections) being quite a lot richer than those poorer areas inland and recently conquered where development hasn't really taken place.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Ya lol I was wondering why our income was static, good call.

Provinces should definitely not be equal income though.

three classes

wealthy - 900
average - 600
poor - 300

I will come up with a draft sometime.

And citizenship does have a nasty effect of cutting tax revenue.

While I would love nothing more than to make the income system as complex and innovative as that, I can't possibly be counted on to edit the map, come up with what regions get what, and make sure it is being added correctly every week between the other tasks I have to do. If someone here can propose something that looks good to use and we have someone willing to help out as a mod and regulate it I'd be all for it.

My recommendation would be to number regions 1-x in each traditional Roman province (Nearer Spain, Further Spain, Gaul, Brittania, etc) as we will be adhering more or less to those borders (something I will remain inflexible on unless someone offers me a good reason) and make some sort of key with recommendations as to what amount should be able to be taxed from each

[ForteS]

You think it is that complex?

Let's see we have 62 regions.


E.g:


20 regions are wealthy
22 regions are average
20 regions are poor


20*900=18000
22*600=13200
20*300=6000
-------
37200


As we don't add regions that fast it won't need a constant update, anyway if you need help to keep something updated cont me in

[Pontifex Maximus]

How do you determine which level of wealth to assign to each? Central Italy will be more productive than a Central Gallic region, surely, but I was thinking in order to keep it all straight we would need to copy our map and assign a value to each region, non?

[ForteS]

Yes, but all is needed to do is a little research, I can help in Hispania if you want to.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I'll be needing tons of help if that is to be done. Its an awesome idea just a very work intensive one...

[ForteS]

I'll look at the map and give you some help, Lusitania is a easy area for me.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Even long journeys begin with a first step. If we start with regions we currently own and won't lose soon that would be the best. Italy, Sicily, Greece

[PatrickR]

I see what I can dig up on Carthage - I'm not at home at the moment, but I think Carthage's late republic/early Empire income is mentioned in a book I have on the Late Roman Empire. Any other help you need, I'm willing to provide.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Well that's one province on the tip of Africa covered.

If we can get enough volunteers I'll divide up the map and see what we can come up with.

[PatrickR]

And roughly answered already Both North African provinces are mentioned as being very rich in the early empire, and the fact that Carthage was the second largest city in the Empire by around 50AD point out that a century earlier it probably would have been on the top end of the prosperity spectrum. That goes for both regions because they were both on something of an even keel when it came to grain and olive oil (two main exports), but Carthage was still richer because it was the major trade hub of the southern mediterainian. So African Proconsularis and Numinidia should both have a hefty tax income.

[Raglan]

its very easy to put it together on the map, but requires some information so i know what to do.

[Aetius]

No need raglan...

I spent awhile on this map, and it is very balanced and arguably historical

As it stands the empire has 62 territories which gathers 39900
denarii


3 Classes of provinces
Poor = 100 denarii
Average = 400 denarii
Rich = 2000 denarii

Divisions of the Republic
Hispania Pro-consulship = 5400
Africa et Sicilia Pro-consulship = 6400
Greace et asia Pro-consulship = 14800
Italia (not being taxed anymore?) = 7200
cisalpine gaul + Gaul+ illyria+Corsica et sardinia (territories not organized into any Pro-Consular Provinca) = 6100

[PatrickR]

Wonderful work

[ForteS]

I did my own home work for Hispania, is just a WIP and still needs work, anyway what Aetius did is great

[Lucius Malfoy]

I do have to agree with Aetius.

Some provinces hold special benefits that could increase income. Such as those that have linked markets with the Silk Road, the grain from Egypt and the gold mines of Hispania.

Some areas are depopulated or scattered due to either war or unwanted land...such as deserts. I say we just give a couple provinces within each region certain benefits, such as two or three provinces in Hispania have gold mines and a roll can define the increased income...or possibly no increased income.

Other times some provinces are more developed or populated because of their strategic importance or political value. Such as the Danube area, military colonists were put there after conquests in order to ensure a large surplus of manpower to create the necessary military forces to repel invasions

Though I also agree that a more innovated tax system might not be a good idea...would make things very technical in my views.