[Spoilers] Game Of Thrones - Clash Of Kings ( SERIES )

[MathiasOfAthens]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The battle will OBVIOUSLY be skipped over... the POV character is hiding behind a rock. He will miss the whole battle and only hear about it from the survivors. None of that is a spoiler.

[Påsan]

All of that is a spoiler

[Manco]

As for the Wight lacking armour, the second Wight you see does have armour on, including what seemed to be a Vendel-like Helmet with mail face protection. Which kinda fits with their ancient Northern vibe.

And I want ing Barristan Selmy to come back. I love the old geezer.

[Leonidas The Lion]

Please use spoilers

[MathiasOfAthens]

All of that is a spoiler

No its not... I could be wrong.

Is this a spoiler:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There be dragons in season 3?

Maybe, idk but what about this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There is going to be a battle and people will die and maybe it will snow?

`


Find out below:

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/...ason-2-finale/

Interesting article that highlights all the changes made from the book to the HBO series for the memory handicap like myself.

Below is all the changes from the book to the movie regarding the last episode and Danys POV. Which is interesting because the most interesting prophecy was excluded from the show. Ill spoiler the prophecy itself in another window below this one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

7) Daenerys sees different visions in the House of the Undying Ones

This is the big one — the part of the story that fans of the books have been waiting for all season, as we wondered what revelations might possibly be inferred from the way this sequence was shot.

In the books, Daenerys Targaryen seeks advice from the warlocks of Qarth, even though her friends and allies warn her they’re not to be trusted. Upon entering their mansion, she imbibes a hallucinogenic liquor and then wanders through an Escher-esque sequence of rooms where she beholds all manner of surreal visions. In one room, she sees a king with the head of a wolf in a room full of corpses. In another, she sees her dead brother Rhaegar holding up his infant son Aegon and declaring that the babe is “the prince who was promised” and that “his is the song of ice and fire.” When she finally meets the warlocks, they whisper prophecies to her such as, “Three treasons will you know. Once for blood and once for gold and once for love.” She then experiences a rush of images, and as she swoons the warlocks crowd her, seeking to drain her life. She’s rescued by her dragon Drogon, who sets the warlocks and their house ablaze.

Obviously, fans of the books expected that the two dozen or so prophetic visions presented in this chapter would probably have to be trimmed down to something a bit more manageable for the television screen, and boy were they ever. The number of visions from the books that made it into the show is … zero.

Zip. Nada. Nothing.

Dany does see a vision in which her dead husband Drogo and stillborn son Rhaego are alive and well, which is at least in the same spirit as the vision in the books in which she sees and longs for the house where she grew up. In the show, she also sees a vision in which the throne room in King’s Landing is a snowy ruin — presumably this is what will happen if the White Walkers overrun the South. These scenes are beautifully shot, but don’t offer much to analyze — unlike the visions in the novel, which have provoked year after year of frenzied speculation. Though I did like that Daenerys gives the order to barbecue Pyat Pree, which makes her a bit more of an active character than in the scene in the books

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In another (vision), she sees her dead brother Rhaegar holding up his infant son Aegon and declaring that the babe is “the prince who was promised” and that “his is the song of ice and fire.”

The above vision was extremely important, or foretelling because we find out much much later in the series that

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

her brother is still alive and leads an army to retake Westeros... making her not the true queen of Westeros.

[Stark Bannerman]

I liked the look of the Others there at the end of the last episode, looked like something really evil, quite fitting in my opinion.

[alexanderswift]

Great episode, the part in the House of the Undying had some beautiful shots.

Though I do wonder

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Who the hell burned down Winterfell? I figured it was the Iron Islanders but why was it abandoned when the Stark kids left. It makes no sense for the northerners trying to take it back to burn it, and where'd they all disappear to? There were supposed to be 500 of them and no one bothered to stick around? That whole bit just lost me entirely.

[Lord of Lost Socks]

Since they didn't tell you, that means that they will tell you next season. Have fun waiting, everyone :/

[alexanderswift]

I hope so, it seems like a silly detail to leave out.

[RZZZA]

Urgh Margeary is so cringy, i don't know whether it's the actress or the lines she gets it's just awful.

She was a terrible choice for the role imo. It feels like she already did all this in the Tudors. Seeing it twice is just not good.

[Stark Bannerman]

Great episode, the part in the House of the Undying had some beautiful shots.

Though I do wonder

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Who the hell burned down Winterfell? I figured it was the Iron Islanders but why was it abandoned when the Stark kids left. It makes no sense for the northerners trying to take it back to burn it, and where'd they all disappear to? There were supposed to be 500 of them and no one bothered to stick around? That whole bit just lost me entirely.

Only read this if you really want to know and wont be bothered by a bit of spoiling.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was Ramsey Bolton, the Bastard Son of Roose Bolton, it was Dreadfort soldiers outside Winterfell and theon is taken prisoner by him and everyone else killed, he was told to do it by Roose.

[Halie Satanus]

Seems to me we don't know what happened to Winterfell because none of the characters who's POV we have saw what happened.

At least the end scene gave us something to look forward to, I hope. If the battle against the Others is skipped I'll be pretty disappointed.

[Stark Bannerman]

Seems to me we don't know what happened to Winterfell because none of the characters who's POV we have saw what happened.

At least the end scene gave us something to look forward to, I hope. If the battle against the Others is skipped I'll be pretty disappointed.

I think it will probably be similar to the books with flashbacks from Samwell and the other nightswatch members or if they'll be nice they'll actually cover the battle.

[alexanderswift]

Only read this if you really want to know and wont be bothered by a bit of spoiling.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was Ramsey Bolton, the Bastard Son of Roose Bolton, it was Dreadfort soldiers outside Winterfell and theon is taken prisoner by him and everyone else killed, he was told to do it by Roose.

Ohohohohoh! That makes sense, I had my suspicions but I wasn't totally sure. Interesting twist does that mean

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That Roose is trying to undermine Rob's authority as king of the north? Having his own keep burned down won't draw many to his cause...

[Bobz]

Well I thought that was a very good way to end the season. I do hope we get to see some of the fight at the fist, watching the Night's Watch fight the Wights and Others will be fantastic

Gosh I really shed a tear at Maester Luwin's death. It's certainly the saddest moment in the series
I'm intrigued where the storyline is going from here though... Alfie Allen really came into his own this season, one of the top performances I reckon. With Tyrion, Varys and Jorah as my favourites

Oh and I also note no mention of Varys and Ros' scene. I actually think those two worked great together, and hopefully shut up those complaining about her.

[EireEmerald]

I hope so, it seems like a silly detail to leave out.

Maester Luwin knew who it was though. He didn't say it was the Iron born men. He made it seem like it was someone else

[beckyolt]

Who the hell burned down Winterfell? I figured it was the Iron Islanders but why was it abandoned when the Stark kids left. It makes no sense for the northerners trying to take it back to burn it, and where'd they all disappear to? There were supposed to be 500 of them and no one bothered to stick around? That whole bit just lost me entirely.

Haven't you read the books alexanderswift? lol, thought you had...Well, if not, here's an detailed explanation for ya.


Well. and for anyone who hasn't read the books and is confused about who burned

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Winterfell.

( Saw like 3-4 people here in that situation... )

There are some spoilers here that aren't in the show but that you should know since they're all in book 2. So it doesn't really matter. Read it!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You see, there's this northern lord, Roose Bolton. You see him quite a few times talking to Robb in the show.


He has a sinister bastard son named Ramsay Bolton ( or technically Ramsay Snow ), who's in charge of his father's keep - Dreadfort - and remaining soldiers after Roose left with Robb.

Ramsay starts creating a lot of trouble in the North, including attacking lands of other Robb's vassals . For this, Maester Luiwin sends Ser Rodrik along with many men to take Ramsay to justice.

Ramsay fakes his own death: He makes one of his men - a soldier called Reek - dress his clothes, while Ramsay dresses Reek's clothes. His soldier dies , hit by an arrow during the battle, while Ramsay himself, in the identity of Reek, is taken to Winterfell to be interrogated about why Ramsay was doing those things.

beginning of spoilers ( as I said , read them... they're all revealed in the 2nd book )



When Theon takes Winterfell, he frees "Reek" ( he doesn't know Reek is Ramsay in disguise) and makes an alliance with him. It's Ramsay who gives Theon the idea of killing two farmer boys and pretend they're Bran and Rickon.

Notice that Ser Rodrik isn't killed by Theon in the book ( like it happened in the show) . Actually, he escapes Winterfell and rallies an considerable army with 2000 men to retake Winterfell. While the Northern army approaches, Ramsay reveals his true identity to Theon and offers to go to Dreadfort and gather men to help Theon defend Winterfell. Theon agrees and Ramsay departs.

Ser Rodrik surrounds the castle and, in a meeting with Theon, says he will die a traitor's death ( or something like that ) and the siege starts. But Ramsay makes it and arrives with 400 Bolton men from Dreadfort.

At first , Ser Rodrik thinks that the approaching Northeners are allies, and lets them join the sieging army. But Ramsay suddenly strikes and with the Bolton men completely destroy the Northern army. Ramsay kills Ser Rodrik. ( As you can see it wasn't Theon )

However, when Theon happly goes out to greet Ramsay and thank him for the rescue, Ramsay double-crosses him and slaughters all of his men, burns Winterfell, and takes Theon to Dreadfort. It is now clear what the Boltons really want

I liked COK's Northern storyline better in the book.


And the ending was epic indeed ( only worsened a bit because of the ridiculous looking wights. Those were some of the worst special effects I've ever seen... ) , but the Others looked incredible. Different than they look in the book, but really nice.

the three blasts discussion was already done in a previous episode. I kinda liked the wights, but I think the White walker lacked armor. True, armor would hide their bodies and make them look more human, a definite no-no, but still...

in what page is the discussion?

And while I missed the awesome armor Others have in the book I loved their portrayal in the show. They look more "godly".

[Gaidin]

Well when the assertions are that LOTR is the "best fantasy story ever written" and that Tolkien is "twice the storyteller that Martin was" again every point I made is valid in countering such bold assertions.

When one posits that LOTR is the "best fantasy ever written" you are shifting the comparison out of just "fairy tales" and putting it into competition with other fantasy stories. One can't use writer intentions as an excuse if one is asserting that it is the "best fantasy ever written". Blatta did not claim it was the "best fairy tale ever written". I am not just laying out critique of Tolkien for fun. I am countering specific claims that are comparing it to Thrones and other fantasy stories.

Something I don't have a problem with. LOTR will always be in my top five, of this I have no doubt. But then, I read Unfinished Tales, Silmarillion, and the Hobbit and count it among them. As no doubt there are plenty of people in this very thread that count GRRM's short stories that happen some generations before and whatever other material he may make himself as a part of A Song of Ice and Fire. It's my prerogative. I'm also one who gets as much out of the sheer world building experience as I do the story. It's why Lord of the Rings is right up there with stories like Wheel of Time, Chronicles of the Black Company, The Dresden Files, and A Song of Ice and Fire for my top five. Even if Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings may not, strictly speaking, be the best storytelling experiences out there.

Thus the critiques are still valid in countering such assertions. If you want to say "But Tolkien wasn't trying to write complex, interesting characters or write interesting unpredictable plot twists" fair enough. In a different context you would be totally right like if I started a thread that was "LOTR is not good because...." My critique though is taken in direct context of the assertions made by Blatta.

Except even then you won't see anyone who gives a damn about logic in a discussion really try to say "NEED REALISTIC CHARACTERS" when the story is intended to be put forward as a myth retold.

I just don't hold his characters against him when I stand Lord of the Rings up against any of the others, because it has its style of writing. And that style of writing is just different. Trying to hold a design choice against something when that design choice is perfectly valid for what the author intends is like moaning about me as an engineer not including a timer circuit in a design that has no dependance on how much time has passed.

I look at it like this when people start talking about "best of genre" type of arguments. I look at the "Tolkien was only trying to write a fairy tale" and such limitations that you remark on are kind of like difficulty level of a gymnastics move or something. So if Tolkien wasn't trying to write deep, complex and realistic characters and Martin was, then Tolkien is taking on a project with a lower difficulty level than Martin, Erickson or Rothfuss. That is fine if we are just critiquing the book in isolation. But if one is starting to make "Best of..." comparisons then the limitations of that intentional design have to be taken into account not just as an excuse but also as a lower difficulty level.

If thats what you really think I said you're a bit off the mark. I said he was writing his story in the style of a myth and fairy tale retold. Let's remember, Achilles ain't exactly the most complex character out there, or even in the Trojan War. Yet nobody holds that against Homer when they read the Illiad, a pretty damn big masterpiece if there ever was one. Why should I hold this against Lord of the Rings?

To make up some fun arbitrary numbers just to illustrate its like this:
Say, Tolkien gets a perfect 10 on execution but his project was only a 5 difficulty level so his total is 50.
Martin might only have a 8 on execution but since his project was a 8 difficulty level so his total is a 64.

Arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.

[chilon]

Something I don't have a problem with. LOTR will always be in my top five, of this I have no doubt. But then, I read Unfinished Tales, Silmarillion, and the Hobbit and count it among them. As no doubt there are plenty of people in this very thread that count GRRM's short stories that happen some generations before and whatever other material he may make himself as a part of A Song of Ice and Fire. It's my prerogative. I'm also one who gets as much out of the sheer world building experience as I do the story. It's why Lord of the Rings is right up there with stories like Wheel of Time, Chronicles of the Black Company, The Dresden Files, and A Song of Ice and Fire for my top five. Even if Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings may not, strictly speaking, be the best storytelling experiences out there.

Except even then you won't see anyone who gives a damn about logic in a discussion really try to say "NEED REALISTIC CHARACTERS" when the story is intended to be put forward as a myth retold.

I just don't hold his characters against him when I stand Lord of the Rings up against any of the others, because it has its style of writing. And that style of writing is just different. Trying to hold a design choice against something when that design choice is perfectly valid for what the author intends is like moaning about me as an engineer not including a timer circuit in a design that has no dependance on how much time has passed.

If thats what you really think I said you're a bit off the mark. I said he was writing his story in the style of a myth and fairy tale retold. Let's remember, Achilles ain't exactly the most complex character out there, or even in the Trojan War. Yet nobody holds that against Homer when they read the Illiad, a pretty damn big masterpiece if there ever was one. Why should I hold this against Lord of the Rings?

Arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.

Well this debate can go on and on. I've had with friends that love LOTR where we have had this debate for years and years. Fair enough, they loved LOTR. I did not. They were the least favorite books I ever actually finished reading cover to cover (actually Dicken's David Copperfield was probably less enjoyable so I retract that statement to second least enjoyable). But just because they loved LOTR for what it was ("myth retold" in your language) does not mean it is the Best Fantasy Ever Written as some people claim.

I get all of your points and if this discussion were begun in a different context I would totally concede all of those points (I've heard the whole "Tolkien wasn't trying to write complex, realistic characters" many, many times).

However this was brought up in the context of best fantasy works ever. In that context I think the critiques are valid to hold against LOTR. I look at it kind of like a debate on "Best Car of all Time". Say someone were to argue something like a Diablo was the "best car ever''. Then someone else would say "Hey the Diablo gets horrible gas mileage; worse than a Tesla Roadster". The response might be 'hey that was a design choice, the Diablo was never meant to get good gas mileage'. That would be a fair response in any context other than "Best Car of All Time". But when the discussion is "Best of..." then design or stylistic choices count. Limitations of the specific style do count against the author when evaluating if it was the best ever.

For how I judge works of fiction when evaluating a "Best of Fantasy Ever" those criteria count regardless of what Tolkien was setting out to do. Again the original comment wasn't Tolkien wrote the best "Myth Retold" that ever exists. It was simply "Best Fantasy". In that context I judge works of fiction entirely on what they actually do. For me Tolkien's writing was less impressive, far less enjoyable and produced far less satisfying results than what Martin, Erickson, Wolfe and Rothfuss did.

Just like I might not be able to convince you that LOTR is not as good as Thrones or Name of the Wind, there is no way anyone is ever going to convince me that LOTR is 'better' than those by arguing something like "well Tolkien wasn't trying to write deep, rich character studies". Fair enough if Tolkien wasn't but just because he didn't set out to do that doesn't mean I will ever be convinced Tolkien is the best fantasy when other works exist that I feel are far more complex and IMO much more difficult to write. Just like if someone were to claim a graphic novel was the best work of that genre fiction. For a graphic novel to be considered above other works of fiction it would have to overcome some of the difficulties of the medium the author chose.

And sure, my numbers are clearly arbitrary but so is every argument for what constitutes the "Best of...."

Oh and BTW I've read the Silmarillion as well and I wasn't considering that as part of LOTR (I actually enjoyed the Silmarillion far more than the LOTR trilogy and I always felt like some of those brief stories would have made much better novels than the story Tolkien selected to expand upon). I wasn't consciously counting the Dunk and Egg stories for Thrones either although if I did it would give a greater edge to Thrones for me since the Dunk and Egg stories are even more enjoyable to me than some of the GoT books. I can't wait to read the next Dunk and Egg with the Wolf Women of Winterfell!

[Captain Hastings]

So yeah, end to the finale was pretty cool. Wish we'd got a bit more but it differed little from what I was expecting.