The most boring mathematical lesson?

[nadjib]

I Think that it's vectorial analysis

can you tell me div rot A = ? or grad div A = ? !!
and grad grad A my god...

EDIT : What's the blue ballance near the "ON/OFF" status, under my avatar??

[Perikles]

No the worst one is trigonometry!
Tan=30 degrees blah blah blah! It hurts my ears!

The wighing scales under your avatar tell you your reputation for that post. There is a thread in the CP.

[Reidy]

No the worst one is trigonometry!

Hey? What? No! Trigonometry is FUN!

[nadjib]

No the worst one is trigonometry!
Tan=30 degrees blah blah blah! It hurts my ears!

The wighing scales under your avatar tell you your reputation for that post. There is a thread in the CP.

Like Reidy said it's not as hard as it seems. you have to know 3 formules and you're saved ! (cos²x+sin²x=1 ; cos(a+b) ; sin(a+b))

[David Deas]

All of that crap is boring until you actually need it.

Thats why as an engineering student, I found myself having to backtrack extra a lot.

[therussian]

Most Trigonometry is easy as hell. IT's the other stuff, like graphing the graphs of SinX, cosX, tanX, CscX, SecX and cotX that really get on my nerves.

[nadjib]

Most Trigonometry is easy as hell. IT's the other stuff, like graphing the graphs of SinX, cosX, tanX, CscX, SecX and cotX that really get on my nerves.

If you're russian, just open Piskounov or Shilov...

[Darth Wong]

You're not doing real math until you're solving differential equations.

[Last Roman]

all of it

[David Deas]

Calculators do everything these days anyhow. I'd hoped by the time I reached college, math class would be replaced by calculator class.

[therussian]

If you're russian, just open Piskounov or Shilov...

Nah, don't feel like buying any books. My text book is enough.

DW: What do you mean? What are those?

[RazorOutlaw]

Calculators do everything these days anyhow. I'd hoped by the time I reached college, math class would be replaced by calculator class.

Wouldn't that be the exact thing not to do? Part of getting good at math is actually working the problems in your head or on paper, right?

If writing classes were replaced with programs that wrote your papers for you, how could you expect to present your ideas clearly?

[David Deas]

Well. I was joking. At least partially anyways. But in the real world you don't solve equations by hand if at all avoidable.

Speaking from personnal experience, my pops, who is a former JPL rocket scientist, owns his own research and develpment company complete with plenty of engineers and machinists. All of them walk around with giant special personally programmed calculators in their back pockets. Whenever they need something solved and they're away from a relevant computer, they just whip it out and punch it in. Fact of the matter is, calculators (and machines in general) make you more productive because you can solve the same problems in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the effort. Nobody's sitting around with paper in front of them trying to work out differential equations.

Its just like anything else. Like Burger King for example. You're required to know basic math at Burger King because the cash register just *might* break down one day.

[RazorOutlaw]

I see your point, but you were advocating replacing the difficult school-work with calculators. I can't dispute that in the working world calculators have their place, but that should be reserved only for when someone has graduated and proven that they can do the math on their own without the aid of a machine. But since you were joking I see no reason to clash over the need to do the time-consuming math work while still in school.

[Darth Wong]

Well. I was joking. At least partially anyways. But in the real world you don't solve equations by hand if at all avoidable.

Speaking from personnal experience, my pops, who is a former JPL rocket scientist, owns his own research and develpment company complete with plenty of engineers and machinists. All of them walk around with giant special personally programmed calculators in their back pockets. Whenever they need something solved and they're away from a relevant computer, they just whip it out and punch it in. Fact of the matter is, calculators (and machines in general) make you more productive because you can solve the same problems in a fraction of the time with a fraction of the effort. Nobody's sitting around with paper in front of them trying to work out differential equations.

If something needs to be done repeatedly, it's much more efficient to solve it analytically once and then plug numbers into the resulting formula than to solve it numerically every time. That kind of laziness is what leads to simulation software that takes 10 times longer to run an analysis than it really has to.

Its just like anything else. Like Burger King for example. You're required to know basic math at Burger King because the cash register just *might* break down one day.

Or because you might be asked to program some of that software someday. Computers don't program themselves; someone needs to know how this stuff works.

[Timmius]

Physics are really interesting. Until you have to prove them with mathematics. Even Einstein said so. But boringness of mathematics is off course a bit rediculous since tastes differ. Thank god for that though.

[Mathias]

Dont need calculators to solve math problems. Many in my class use me as a calculator as Im incredible fast at solving math problems in my head, at least compared to people at my school

[David Deas]

If something needs to be done repeatedly, it's much more efficient to solve it analytically once and then plug numbers into the resulting formula than to solve it numerically every time.

That doesn't mean you don't use a calculator. You still use a calculator.

It's just where the "special personally programmed" part I mentioned earlier comes in. Once you've got your formula saved in your calculator, all you're doing after that is pulling up and plugging in.



...{SNIP}...

I'll get the rest later. Got class.

[Darth Wong]

That doesn't mean you don't use a calculator. You still use a calculator.

Uh, yes it does. You can't come up with a solution formula by using a numeric equation solver.

It's just where the "special personally programmed" part I mentioned earlier comes in. Once you've got your formula saved in your calculator, all you're doing after that is pulling up and plugging in.

And where does that formula come from if you don't know how to analytically solve systems of equations?

[David Deas]

That kind of laziness is what leads to simulation software that takes 10 times longer to run an analysis than it really has to.

Most engineers I've come across are lazy anyhow. Everything came easily to them in school, they never had to work quite as hard to pin down the concepts. So they didn't exactly form the best work habits. There are exceptions, but they seem to tend towards infinitesimal in my experience. If you look at the structure of my father's company (and going out on a limb, but I'd say most companies as well), all of the tireless workers, including himself, are at the top signing the checks of the often 'smarter' big wig school engineers below them. Its alright to be lazy as long as you can get away with it. As long as you can afford it. If you can be that way and still get it done on time, then go for it. No harm there. But if there is a close deadline to be met, or a happening race with another company then you better get your @ss in gear.

Or because you might be asked to program some of that software someday. Computers don't program themselves; someone needs to know how this stuff works.

Its highly unlikely that you might be asked to do a job you are clearly inadequate to perform. Someone needs to know how that stuff works. But certainly not everyone.

For example. Take CNC for instance. It needs to be programmed. Someone needs to know that programming stuff. But not *everyone* who uses CNC needs to know that programming stuff. You can operate just fine without it under most circumstances.

I, and just about every other technical person knows how to operate a Haas and a TRAK to do CNC work. Even if their prime responsibility is aesthetic design, they know how to jump on I-DEAS, construct a model, virtually machine it, whip out the CL file, use the post processor to turn it into G-Code, tool the carousel, coordinate the machine with the stock, press go and come up with a part some hours later. So if a part needs to be made, as it often does, they can do it themselves under normal circumstances. That stuff isn't hard. Yet very few of them, myself included at one point in time, know jack $hit about how to script a post processor (which is done in house), or even how to slightly modify one. How to edit and fix faulty CL files. How to actually write or edit G-Code to program the machine with if necessary. How to do anything, really. If they have a problem with any of that stuff, then its as simple as finding a programmer to help. If its convenient enough, they'll even be happy to teach you.

Uh, yes it does. You can't come up with a solution formula by using a numeric equation solver.

I should have been more clear. Excuse me. I was trying to say that, even so, they would eventually be using a calculator or computer or whatver somewhere down the line *after* their formula is derived. Just because you may need to solve it analytically beforehand doesn't mean you won't be using a calculator later on down the road to plug the numbers into your solution equation with. That was all I was trying to say.

And where does that formula come from if you don't know how to analytically solve systems of equations?

Well. Calculators can do that as well, actually. Most math, differential calculus included, high end graphing calculators have no problem doing. And for what they can't do, they can be programmed to do. Any kind of math, chemistry, physics, whatever you want. Most of it can be readily downloaded without having to program yourself. Nonetheless, programming *does* require the knowledge of the math that you speak of. So you're right. And I agree. All I was saying was that after it is programmed, even a dummy can operate it and come up with the right answer. You can get every single answer correct.

The only knock against calculators that can't be overcome is their accuracy. They're only accurate to within a certain limit of decimal places no matter how good you are.