East of Rome Mod Leader
3rd century crisis
I wonder how you wi simulate the 3rd century crisis? It was a major breakdown of Roman economy.. Also several plague events occured. Eventhough Aurelian is said to have ended this crisis tje economic decline still continued. Entire provinces were depopulated. Will you simulate this via a script?
The Philosopher King
Re: 3rd century crisis
No idea at the moment, really trying to focus on creating the new units for the mod.Originally Posted by Deutschland
Cheers
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East of Rome Mod Leader
Re: 3rd century crisis
Ah ok.. As a mod leader i understand units come first.. But as a fan of late antiquity i deman this subject to be delt with!! (at least i hope for it)
The Philosopher King
Re: 3rd century crisis
Well then, I may ask upon your assistance at a later date.Ah ok.. As a mod leader i understand units come first.. But as a fan of late antiquity i deman this subject to be delt with!! (at least i hope for it
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East of Rome Mod Leader
Re: 3rd century crisis
In case you havent yet, i d first suggest the lecture of the decline and fall of the roman empire by gibbon. It offers some insight about the toppic. For more information please ask me.
The Philosopher King
Re: 3rd century crisis
I have read his book many many times. Truly a classic if dated nowadays.
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Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
You are german right? You might to read one book that contains some of the most up to date research on the third century crisis, that was published in German.
The title is Die Zeit der Soldatenkaiser: Krise und Transformation des Römischen Reiches im 3. Jahrhundert n. Chr. 235-284 by Klaus Peter-Johne.
Essentially, based on what new information we have discovered, the third century isn't as bad as we thought.
East of Rome Mod Leader
Re: 3rd century crisis
Lol isnt it? I read an article where it was said the trade volume decreased by 50%. But I will take a look at the book and eventually download it
And how did you know I am German XD
Domesticus
Re: 3rd century crisis
Ahem....Lol isnt it? I read an article where it was said the trade volume decreased by 50%. But I will take a look at the book and eventually download it
And how did you know I am German XD
Deutschland....
(Excessive use of smilies for the win!)
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Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
May I know the article?Lol isnt it? I read an article where it was said the trade volume decreased by 50%. But I will take a look at the book and eventually download it
Your username is kinda a huge give away.And how did you know I am German XD
East of Rome Mod Leader
Re: 3rd century crisis
Hm it was in a German history journal unfortunately I don`t have it anymore. If I remember correctly the decrease of trade was measured by found wrecks throughout the centuries: Many trade ship wrecks were found around the mediterranean that sunk in the 1st or 2nd century but a lot less from the 3-6th century. This is a good indicator as the Roman trade was largely sea-based. Ofc its not a full elaborate workout of the issue but its a good indicator.
Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
A lot of the problems were associated with what we'd call "communications".
They failed to invent the telegraph!
Important news like the Germans marching across the border could take a while to reach the C-in-C.
The particularly bad days ran from the killing of Severus Alexander to the rise of Claudius Gothicus and Aurelian.
Money is an element in communications and a tonne of silver with a order to get something done is less energy intensive than sending an order with 70 tons of the copper equivalent. The fresh sources of silver and gold which had served the Empire for so long were drying up without replacement.
Aurelian's first act was make sure the debased currency had 5% real silver content.
But maybe Rome's doom came from it's success, Pax Romana created a relative population explosion that reached its height around 200 AD. Too many people to feed and employ for the amount of resources.
Last edited by wulfgar610; July 31, 2011 at 10:31 PM.
East of Rome Mod Leader
Re: 3rd century crisis
Interesting. Can you prove the thesis of population explosion with an article or something please?
Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
Colin McEvedy 1978
"Atlas of world population history."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=all
S/H prices vary from $8 to $280!
Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
Well, it's a little too much to claim that the end of Rome was caused by too many "idle mouth".A lot of the problems were associated with what we'd call "communications".
They failed to invent the telegraph!
Important news like the Germans marching across the border could take a while to reach the C-in-C.
The particularly bad days ran from the killing of Severus Alexander to the rise of Claudius Gothicus and Aurelian.
Money is an element in communications and a tonne of silver with a order to get something done is less energy intensive than sending an order with 70 tons of the copper equivalent. The fresh sources of silver and gold which had served the Empire for so long were drying up without replacement.
Aurelian's first act was make sure the debased currency had 5% real silver content.
But maybe Rome's doom came from it's success, Pax Romana created a relative population explosion that reached its height around 200 AD. Too many people to feed and employ for the amount of resources.
Primicerius
Re: 3rd century crisis
Well this is looking for causes of the 3rd century inflation and monetary breakdown. It wasn't the end of the Western Empire. According to McEvedy the Empires population declined from the 3rd century to a Nadir in the 6th century.
There's some evidence that the price of grain (human fuel) reached a high against silver around 200 AD. It seems to have take 2 denari weight of silver to buy a peck of grain, later by Constantine's time the price had fallen back to a denari weight. And this was a factor behind the legions demands for pay increases in the late 2nd century. This was a era when only the wealthy could afford to be fat.
Re: 3rd century crisis
The economic crisis came directly from the unmanned borders and barbarian incursions, as roman generals tried to take power of the empire, or even take a slice of the Empire for themselves (much like what later ocured in Gaul and Brittain) . The plague didnt start until around 250. , and by 275 all lands were retaken, so it might not have been as devastating as people think. Due to provinces not being productive at the time there was a shortage of goods, also a plague and loss of life to barbarians led to less people working, so the economic crisis was more or less expected.
So you can say the cause of the crisis started with generals moving from borders and vying for power, if they had stopped barbarian incursions the economy wouldnt have collapsed. Its also the reason why the Empire fell, instead of fighting the endless supply of savages roman armies fought each other, because of the greed and lust for power of leading men. So the Empire in a way fell because it was too powerful, and too many people wanted a piece of that power.
You cant base anything on Gibbon, because while he has some interesting points, he takes much information from ancient historians, who were sometimes biased and inaccurate. Also everything in those books are based on speculation and theory, he didnt have archaeology to back it up, thus much of what he claims is considered to be inaccurate by todays historians. Still his rethoric is beautiful and those books are a great read.
German historians are generally really good when it comes to Roman history, which is why im learning German, to be able to read them as they were meant to be read, and much has not been translated to my language, so i have to use other sources for University.
On a side not the amount of people living in the empire (including slaves) was between 60 and 120 milion people, some 65% of which lived in the countryside, so the plague wouldnt have killed that many people as the black death later, when people flocked to walled towns, and when hygiene was neglected everywhere.
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