The "unlikelihood" of natural life

[Tankbuster]

Yeah this is just false. See here:

http://cosmos.asu.edu/publications/p...verse%2079.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Cosmic-Landsca.../dp/0316155799

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Six-Numbe.../dp/0465036732

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/spa...pace-time.html

None of those directly tackle the issue or justify your claim about probability in any way. This is just name-dropping.

The issue is that the range of the constants of the universe is not defined, and as long as that remains the case, any range of life-permitting values will have to be measured against an infinite amount of other values... and this always give, by definition, an infinitely small probability: zero.
No matter how finely or coarsely tuned the constants are, their probability will always be zero unless we find a way to formalize the mathematical space.

Read "Probabilities and the Fine‐Tuning Argument: a Sceptical View" for an essay on the problem. You should be able to find that online very easily.

[Vir Triumphalis]

What a nonsensical argument. If you take 6-sided dice, and from the first throw it lands on the number you wanted, that means the odds WEREN'T in fact 1-in-6?

The point is it did happen. So his proposition stands. The Dice example is hypothetical.

[generalveers]

As has been said before:

The laws of physics could act in such a way that there is no course but for life to develop. We do not know, we probably never will.

My question is this: If it so obviously did happen, why do you need to claim it was impossible? Did nature cheat? Or is the prospect that our entire civilization beat the odds such a horrifying idea? Most people exult in a victory against terrible odds, why do you cower from it? Why do we need to be special?

I find the idea that life exists beyond that we know to be proven by the sheer variety of life we have here. We have billions of species that began from the smallest of beginnings. There are untold variations that could have existed, but don't. A single dot of life on this planet blossomed forth into a vibrant field of life. Who's to say it could not happen elsewhere? I can't. I don't know everything about the universe or the mechanics of life. I don't know exactly what the conditions on early Earth were like (though I do know of some pretty good theories), and I don't know exactly what led to our planet becoming what it is (again, I have theories). It happened once; it can happen again.

[Portuguese Rebel]

So you believe that in a city of 40 million someone can win the lottary by luck 50 million times in a raw. Doesnt sound too reasonable

did you read what i wrote? Your example doesn't apply. It was not the same guy wining it. Bacteria evolved and they did so in several directions. Instead of fitting an analogy into a situation you're fitting the situation into the analogy.

[Simon Cashmere]

My question is this: If it so obviously did happen, why do you need to claim it was impossible? Did nature cheat? Or is the prospect that our entire civilization beat the odds such a horrifying idea? Most people exult in a victory against terrible odds, why do you cower from it? Why do we need to be special?

But it could not have been possible without the power of Magical Jesus, or Magical Vishnu or any other one of a number of superstitious foolishness.

All life is, is a pattern in that was able to repeat itself, and eventually became sentient. That might be amazing to some of us, but its not that amazing. And certainly the fact it happened, is not any sort of logical argument for God (of whatever kind) having done it.

I hope humanity grows up enough one day to put all of its idols, and superstitious nonsense into the bin.

And why is life 'unlikely' anyway? Nobody has done any experiments with a 'control, ie, another earth life planet - nor could they - as they would have to wait a few billion years to see what happened. If people need to believe in some magical God and fairyland afterlife to get through the day, I could care less. It's when they start trying to impose or inflict their religious bs onto others, or try to pretend that they are presenting a logical argument that it really becomes quite annoying.

[Nimthill]

So you believe that in a city of 40 million someone can win the lottary by luck 50 million times in a raw. Doesnt sound too reasonable

Honestly, that's all you can come up with? Repeat a previous argument without reading the replies... sigh.

To make the analogy even remotely compareable...

No, wait. It's just utter crap. You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?


Try re-reading the posts above me, where several people patiently outlined the specifics of how we came to be. Or let someone read them to you, since you don't quite seem able to read them yourself. No offense intended.

[Papay]

As has been said before:

The laws of physics could act in such a way that there is no course but for life to develop. We do not know, we probably never will.

My question is this: If it so obviously did happen, why do you need to claim it was impossible? Did nature cheat? Or is the prospect that our entire civilization beat the odds such a horrifying idea? Most people exult in a victory against terrible odds, why do you cower from it? Why do we need to be special?

I find the idea that life exists beyond that we know to be proven by the sheer variety of life we have here. We have billions of species that began from the smallest of beginnings. There are untold variations that could have existed, but don't. A single dot of life on this planet blossomed forth into a vibrant field of life. Who's to say it could not happen elsewhere? I can't. I don't know everything about the universe or the mechanics of life. I don't know exactly what the conditions on early Earth were like (though I do know of some pretty good theories), and I don't know exactly what led to our planet becoming what it is (again, I have theories). It happened once; it can happen again.

My watch finding a way to copy paste itself by luck.It sounds sooo easy

[Epicurean]

My watch finding a way to copy paste itself by luck.It sounds sooo easy

Could you answer me this simple question, do you think it would be possible for basic, natural, chemicals to form a structure which replicates in a specific environment?

[Simon Cashmere]

Could you answer me this simple question, do you think it would be possible for basic, natural, chemicals to form a structure which replicates in a specific environment?

Only if Jesus wants it to happen.

[Papay]

Could you answer me this simple question, do you think it would be possible for basic, natural, chemicals to form a structure which replicates in a specific environment?

Neither you, nor me nor ANYONE else on this planet knows what exactly life is and what causes living organisms to be alive.What makes them so different compared to stones.Is it an unknown natural phenomenon?Is it a magic formula?We dont know.I guarantee you though that if a type of Abiogenesis somehow happened, the living cells would die instantly before they could manage to reach a point were they could multiply

[Jack04]

Neither you, nor me nor ANYONE else on this planet knows what exactly life is and what causes living organisms to be alive.What makes them so different compared to stones.Is it an unknown natural phenomenon?Is it a magic formula?We dont know.I guarantee you though that if a type of Abiogenesis somehow happened, the living cells would die instantly before they could manage to reach a point were they could multiply

So you know nothing about life but are prepared to state that its continued existence is impossible. I do hope you realise just how utterly ridiculous that statement is.