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Thread: East Franks

  1. #1

    Default East Franks

    I really thought these guys were going to be the dominant force on continental Europe, with a strong starting position and tough professional troops and not much of a challenge.

    I like the beginning of campaigns, starting out small and slowly building a kingdom into a mighty empire. That's why I started my first campaign as the Normans and although allied to the Franks I was dubious and careful of my "powerful" neighbor.

    Things were going great took my first rebel province, building, growing the population, watching my royal family be born, grow up and die. Took Paris, became christian, fought battle with freakishly red sunset and inky blue night (:

    Then the Magyars hit and I was occupied for a few years repelling their constant attacks, well actually they weren't doing much attacking but they didn't want to be my friends so...

    after I drove the Magyars out of my lands I sent a diplomat to the mighty Frankish empire to get map information as I was curious as how they fared against the onslaught of the horde.

    They quickly tell me to get nicked and cancel alliance.. uh oh

    Thinking that this is the start of some huge Frank o Norman war, I rush troops to the border and brace Paris for a siege, however two turns later Denmark crushes the Frankish Empire.


    Now I'm halfway through my second campaign (as the Franks) and am finding them a little weak or even useless against the Danish troops. Have the Franks been nobbled?

  2. #2
    Ubermomo's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: East Franks

    The Franks at this time wernt as powerful as the Carolingian predecesor (i think i spelt those two words right). The mighty Frankish empire that had repelled the Muslim invasion in the South of France has been split into 2, when the King died it was custom to split everything he had amongst his sons (some old Germanic tradition that they are still holding onto) so the only possible answer "I" could give you is that the power of the old empire has been halved and thus weakened causing them to not be as strong as first thought. someone else will probably have a better answer

  3. #3

    Default Re: East Franks

    What chance do the Franks have against Danes, ask yourself that...

  4. #4

    Default Re: East Franks

    Thanks for the replies, I have learnt that they have no chance against the Danes. I made it to 1035 only by sheer luck, Wessex collapsed and I took London off the rebels. Then had a long boring campaign until Scotland, Wales and East Anglia decided it was time for me to go.

  5. #5

    Default Re: East Franks

    btw. the frankish empire splitted into three. (Karl-west, Lothar-middle, Ludwig-east).
    lateron Karl and Ludwig somehow decided to share themselves the middlepart. so out of three make two.
    but I don't know in which time exactly did this happen, so perhaps at the starting-time of this mod there are already only two frankish factions.

  6. #6

    Default Re: East Franks

    in 833 king Louis the Pious was disposed; his sons took a part of his empire.

    Charles the Bald; West-Francia, so if the map expands south this will be intresting..
    Louis the German; yes, the king of the East-Franks.
    Lothair I; took the middle of the empire, Italy, Lothringen etc.

  7. #7
    diadok's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: East Franks

    West Frank region was called Neustria and East Frankish region was called Austrasia. The Frankish empire was divided in three part in 843 but the Lotharingia has been disolved in 870 and it become a march, then in 880 it is a part of Austrasia :
    http://www.deuframat.de/deuframat/im.../verdun_gr.jpg

    ("Lotharingia" will stay a zone of conflict all along the centuries between France and Germanic lands...)

    You like EPIC battles ? watch Diadok's Gallery, play Epic Late Campaign for TATW 2.1
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  8. #8
    Desley's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: East Franks

    In my campaign they got utterly crushed by Denmark
    Will and act until victory

  9. #9

    Default Re: East Franks

    When I played as Franks I became superpower in just a several turns, so I have no idea how could you name them weak? They have probably the largest army at start - I'm able to conquer all (9 or so) rebelious regions around in about 10 turns (always before Danes and Normans). Also this is probably the only faction that can recruit cavalry right from he beginning. Cavalry is very rare in TLK (especialy at the beginning of the gameplay) and very powerful - Danes strong infantry is always in big troubles when I flank their line and hit them with my cavalry at their back. In fact Franks is my second favourite TLK faction, just behind Normans (who also have great cavalry available after few dozens of turns in Paris).

    P.S. I play TLK only vh/vh


  10. #10

    Default Re: East Franks

    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian_Noble View Post
    When I played as Franks I became superpower in just a several turns, so I have no idea how could you name them weak? They have probably the largest army at start - I'm able to conquer all (9 or so) rebelious regions around in about 10 turns (always before Danes and Normans). Also this is probably the only faction that can recruit cavalry right from he beginning. Cavalry is very rare in TLK (especialy at the beginning of the gameplay) and very powerful - Danes strong infantry is always in big troubles when I flank their line and hit them with my cavalry at their back. In fact Franks is my second favourite TLK faction, just behind Normans (who also have great cavalry available after few dozens of turns in Paris).

    P.S. I play TLK only vh/vh
    Its not the faction that's weak but rather how the AI uses them everytime in the campaign. They always get destroyed by the Danes in peoples' campaigns.

  11. #11
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: East Franks

    In my Norman campaign, the Franks are pretty lame and the Danes are the dominant force in the region. They have sent multiple stacks down which threatened to attack my large garrison at Munster. The Magyars are moving their stacks around the map a great deal but haven't attacked me directly and I have been hesitent about attacking their armies comprised of so many horse archers, as I don't have any cavalry apart from those of the general units. I really felt my goose was cooked with all these Danish stacks but I gave Munster to the Norwegians(who seem on good terms with their fellow nords) and allied with them and since then the stacks have dispersed about a bit more, enabling me to engage and defeat the Danish armies individually. The Magyars have now disappeared east and I presume that they must be attacking the Danes somewhere?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by caratacus; July 26, 2011 at 12:19 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: East Franks

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    In my Norman campaign, the Franks are pretty lame and the Danes are the dominant force in the region. They have sent multiple stacks down which threatened to attack my large garrison at Munster. The Magyars are moving their stacks around the map a great deal but haven't attacked me directly and I have been hesitent about attacking their armies comprised of so many horse archers, as I don't have any cavalry apart from those of the general units. I really felt my goose was cooked with all these Danish stacks but I gave Munster to the Norwegians(who seem on good terms with their fellow nords) and allied with them and since then the stacks have dispersed about a bit more, enabling me to engage and defeat the Danish armies individually. The Magyars have now disappeared east and I presume that they must be attacking the Danes somewhere?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    How'd you get multiple stacks of Magyars? When the year 906 came in my Frankish campaign I only got 1 full stack of Magyars instead of 4.

  13. #13

    Default Re: East Franks

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I actually cringed when I saw this.



  14. #14
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: East Franks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Lord's Heir View Post
    How'd you get multiple stacks of Magyars? When the year 906 came in my Frankish campaign I only got 1 full stack of Magyars instead of 4.
    Well the year is about 940AD and there are actually 5 stacks of Magyars moving around but I am playing on a hard campaign setting. So far I have avoided engaging with them during their attack on the Franks, who are my enemies. These stacks have now disappeared into the east from where they came from, which feels to be what they would have done in reality.
    I actually cringed when I saw this
    Well the tactic of giving territory to the Nowegians has worked in acting as a buffer and stopping the Danes spreading further southwards.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    But wait!! what is this in the Danish homeland a large force of my Normans attacking, destroying and sometimes occupying their lightly defended settlements. They might have large stacks but these will start rebelling when there aren't sufficient taxes to raise for their upkeep.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  15. #15

    Default Re: East Franks

    I have to stop playing Frankish campaigns as I developing a serious hatred for all things Danish.

    I will have to admit that yes, the Franks are strong and they do start the game as a "superpower" but if you don't immediately start conquering rebel settlements you will quickly become bankrupt.

    You can in fact (as suggested) conquer most surrounding rebel settlements in around 10 or so turns. I think this is called blitzing and although frowned upon by many gamers and modders it is something you must do if you want half a chance of surviving. However (in my case) this left me 40k in the red, a depleted army and five new provinces needing garrisons.

    To try and pay this debt off as quickly as possible I taxed the people as much as I could without them rebelling and cleaned up any rebel armies I could find.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Everybody probably knows by now that every battle you win you earn money, 1000, 2000 etc depending on the difficulty level and of course the Danes get double.


    This took approximately 20 turns, so as i stagnated my enemies grew stronger.

    So coming into the black I had the choice of either recruiting troops or growing settlements. I tried to do both and had some success with my choice until I had to deal with:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1) The stack of Vikings near my capital - I chased these and they left without a fight.
    2) A stack of Danish elites near Hamburg - They stood back but were close enough to strike
    3) Two stacks of Danes attacking Bremen - Which they took
    4) Retaking Bremen
    5) Losing Bremen
    6) Successful defence of Hamburg
    7) Utter defeat at Hamburg
    8) Faction heir assassinated
    9) Faction leader killed at the fall of Hildishime
    10) Magyars
    11)A second stack of Vikings west of Aachen


    It's all good though.


    @caratacus
    As an ally the Normans have been useless. I tried using them as a buffer giving them the settlement above Hamburg and Flanders but whether they in turn gifted these settlements to Denmark or the settlements rebelled? It just seemed to give more power to the Danes.

  16. #16
    Constantine XII's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: East Franks

    At my campaign (I have the Normans) the Franks crushed in few turns (after the Viking Raid at Aachen) by the Danes and then i had to protect Calais and Paris from Danes.
    I think the Danes is little powerful and Franks isn't enough powerful to protect their own lands

  17. #17

    Icon1 Re: East Franks

    Just about to crush the Franks! (playing as Normans) who have to be the strongest (well we were ok 2nd the welsh hehe)

  18. #18
    Celtichugs123's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: East Franks

    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos-XI View Post
    At my campaign (I have the Normans) the Franks crushed in few turns (after the Viking Raid at Aachen) by the Danes and then i had to protect Calais and Paris from Danes.
    I think the Danes is little powerful and Franks isn't enough powerful to protect their own lands
    This isn't the issue. The issue is the Danes have little to nowhere to expend except South. We created the Great Heathen Army, however it simpley disembarks in Denmark (read known issues list). We are working on a Script to correct this though. Why the Danes wish on taking on the Franks is unknown. They are set to Abysmal with the Angles and set to favouring Sea Invasions.
    Vikingr

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    “For myself, I find I become less cynical rather than more--remembering my own sins and follies; and realize that men's hearts are not often as bad as their acts, and very seldom as bad as their words.”
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  19. #19
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: East Franks

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtichugs123 View Post
    This isn't the issue. The issue is the Danes have little to nowhere to expend except South. We created the Great Heathen Army, however it simpley disembarks in Denmark (read known issues list). We are working on a Script to correct this though. Why the Danes wish on taking on the Franks is unknown. They are set to Abysmal with the Angles and set to favouring Sea Invasions.
    It may be due to the Danes being at war with the Franks immediately. Try having them in peace and it may work

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


  20. #20

    Default Re: East Franks

    Magyars ? Why aren't they in custom battle ? And did they really reached that far historically to be a major threat in Normandy and Denmark ?

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