Map Blog 3 - PSFs (8th Entry - PSF Script)

[Future Filmmaker]

You stated what I was going to say, to diversify the varieties of red. But really there wasn't a single coat of arms for all these factions were there? Tbh, I've actually never seen an all red Tuscan COA.

[Resurrection]

You stated what I was going to say, to diversify the varieties of red. But really there wasn't a single coat of arms for all these factions were there? Tbh, I've actually never seen an all red Tuscan COA.

Tuscany is geographical area. Our faction Comuni Toscani changes its COA based on the actual capital. In 1080 it is Pisa: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...isa-Stemma.png

Florence has lilly: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lorenceCoA.svg

HRE had naturally many different COAs but when the armies were marching under Emperor they used st. George's cross, never Emperor's banner (golden eagle on black): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_of_Milan.svg

Inversed varaint of st. George's cross used both Milan and Genoa, Teutonic knights, England etc.: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soubor:Flag_of_Milan.svg

Papal States used as COA st. Peter's keys: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Papacy_SE.svg best known on white (silver) background but in Middle Ages they were used on red background: http://www.flagshag.com/smaller/euro...at_of_Arms.jpg

Venice was always blue, Normans changed their banner significantly from the one you see on screenshots to black double-headed eagle on silver to most notoriously known: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl..._(revised).svg only all on gold, not gold/red as in the link.

So basically the only thing we can do is to try and differentiate the red more to make it more clear but that's pretty much it I am afraid.

[Lуra]

But will the faction transitions afect the faction's color? For example Aragon becoming the Crown of Aragon? (Azure -->Or and Gules)

[Haertelius Magnus]

wow
it will take some time to subjugate those rebellious Italians ...

which modern city is "Bern" in Northern Italy ??

[Deutscher Kaiser]

Verona

[Hross]

wow
it will take some time to subjugate those rebellious Italians ...

We hope so. The previews showed you all some while back the unusual (for Milan and Pisa) set-up of the government tech trees which mean that politics and conspiracies are even more complex and dangerous. If you now combine that with this patchwork of control points, and then throw in Excommunication and Anti-Popes into the mixture, you can understand the kind of depth, detail and strategy game you can expect from Dominion.

To be a little more clear, as an example- historically the Spanish were in the Levant Crusades, sure, they were even over in Sicily a little bit. But mostly they took the ENTIRE 350 years of the mod dates to actually conquer Iberia and drive out the Muslims (Moors and Taifa 'rebels'), this is the kind of campaign we hope to create. You should be so occupied with the goings-on in your local arena of the campaign so that conquering 3/4 of the map is just not even a question of possibility, nor in fact something you are even interested in considering. We hope that there is more than enough to keep you busy within historical parameters. If you imagine the scripts which Meneth recently showed you, such as Duels, Dowries, Pilgrimages etc the campaign, even though localised to say, Britain will be very eventful even for the Scots stuck in the north of Britain.

I want to emphasise that Dominion, (as I have come to realise) is in fact more of a historical simulator than just a strategy game. Another example is that you will actually have to observe and consider even the very placement of your own nobles and your princesses in the same region since there will be friction- such as Duels and 'Rapes' (ransoms), which could really undermine your plans to use those characters against the enemies outside of your faction. These won't be some random events either but based on the actual details of the characters. Hope this is starting to come together for you all

[Skyn0s]

Excellent work on the map guys !! Love it (except the mini-map)

[Lуra]

We hope so. The previews showed you all some while back the unusual (for Milan and Pisa) set-up of the government tech trees which mean that politics and conspiracies are even more complex and dangerous. If you now combine that with this patchwork of control points, and then throw in Excommunication and Anti-Popes into the mixture, you can understand the kind of depth, detail and strategy game you can expect from Dominion.

To be a little more clear, as an example- historically the Spanish were in the Levant Crusades, sure, they were even over in Sicily a little bit. But mostly they took the ENTIRE 350 years of the mod dates to actually conquer Iberia and drive out the Muslims (Moors and Taifa 'rebels'), this is the kind of campaign we hope to create. You should be so occupied with the goings-on in your local arena of the campaign so that conquering 3/4 of the map is just not even a question of possibility, nor in fact something you are even interested in considering. We hope that there is more than enough to keep you busy within historical parameters. If you imagine the scripts which Meneth recently showed you, such as Duels, Dowries, Pilgrimages etc the campaign, even though localised to say, Britain will be very eventful even for the Scots stuck in the north of Britain.

I want to emphasise that Dominion, (as I have come to realise) is in fact more of a historical simulator than just a strategy game. Another example is that you will actually have to observe and consider even the very placement of your own nobles and your princesses in the same region since there will be friction- such as Duels and 'Rapes' (ransoms), which could really undermine your plans to use those characters against the enemies outside of your faction. These won't be some random events either but based on the actual details of the characters. Hope this is starting to come together for you all

Man! I don't think I'll even reach Sicily by the end date!

[napoleonic]

hmm Turin? I've read several discussion on SS forum about they make a better map for SS and it is generally agreed that Turin wasn't really important in medieval age? wouldn't some swiss/german city make a better choice?

[Resurrection]

hmm Turin? I've read several discussion on SS forum about they make a better map for SS and it is generally agreed that Turin wasn't really important in medieval age? wouldn't some swiss/german city make a better choice?

I wonder on what they based such claims since Turin was basically always capital of that particular area (Piedmont as it is known today). You also don't mention any alternatives and from all the PSFs in the region only Asti or Alessandria could come into play. Both were improtant only relatively briefly and declined during our timeframe unlike Turin. The former capital of Savoy before Turin was Chambelery which is not in Italy but in today's France and back then it was part of Kingdom of Burgundy, by 1080 part of divided Burgundy under Lyon (Burgogne Cisjurane in DotS).

Anyway, since we don't base are layout on settlements but on regions it is pointless to suggest settlements elsewhere like in Switzerland or Germany (HRE), especially since the former had no important city in 1080 yet and not even centuries beyond that and we even had to base its region around Basel.

Feel free to suggest better alternative to Turin in Piedmont (our region is called Marca Arduinica though as it was known throughout most of our timeframe; name Piedmont is only from 14th century onwards).

[Jimmy-j]

Italy looks good, it makes me wanting to be an italian

[Ballacraine]

I would just like to open by saying I greatly admire your dedication & skills in pulling all the diverse elements of the history, geography & politics of the campaign starting positions.

This is undoubtedly going to be an iconic piece of work.

I don't doubt you have my concern covered already, but I had better ask anyway.

I can appreciate the team are striving for historical accuracy & aiming for more of a simulation.
That said, as soon as you start the game the 'What if?' factor immediately kicks in.
The point I am coming to is that whilst the start point may be historical, what actually happened after the start date is no longer fixed.
Don't be hidebound by what actually occured after the start date, as any scripting for historic events may not be of relevance in the gameworld at the trigger point.
If you are tied too much to repeating history, I think it would detract a lot from the appeal & challenge.

Balla.

[Resurrection]

I would just like to open by saying I greatly admire your dedication & skills in pulling all the diverse elements of the history, geography & politics of the campaign starting positions.

This is undoubtedly going to be an iconic piece of work.

I don't doubt you have my concern covered already, but I had better ask anyway.

I can appreciate the team are striving for historical accuracy & aiming for more of a simulation.
That said, as soon as you start the game the 'What if?' factor immediately kicks in.
The point I am coming to is that whilst the start point may be historical, what actually happened after the start date is no longer fixed.
Don't be hidebound by what actually occured after the start date, as any scripting for historic events may not be of relevance in the gameworld at the trigger point.
If you are tied too much to repeating history, I think it would detract a lot from the appeal & challenge.

Balla.

At first this could make sense but not if you investigate it further. For instance if we followed your advice DotS would be very dull and except some differences (like the PSFs) it would be quite similar to other mods out there already. Simply because we could not give a player any additional content during the play since as you say "any scripting ... may not be of relevance".

Our scripting and gameplay content is not based on exact dates or on scripts that must fire. It is based on carefully constructed conditions that are supposed to mimic the events that led to scripted events in reality. Simply put you will see only those scripted events fire whose conditions were met. If you never fulfill them they will never fire.

For instance if you play as Aragon and you conquer Saragossa and Barcelona you will be presented with an option to establish Crown of Aragon. You may decline but if you accept it will change your faction via transition into its another evolution with new options etc. But if you never conquered those two you will never be able to establish Crown of Aragon.

Similar and often much more complicated conditions are set for all "scripted" events. We wanted not only historically accurate start date but also want to provide gameplay within historical framework. Of course you may violate from your faction's historical path but you will miss the content prepared for the more historical path of your faction. The reasoning is hopefully obvious, for the historical paths (units, techs, events etc.) we have basis and data. For "what ifs" we have nothing and simply don't want to make up stuff to satisfy someone's want to conquer Sweden as Moors (not to mention countless amount of possibilities). That should also differentiate DotS from other mods which offer more generic gameplay you speak of.

[Ballacraine]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Appreciated.

Let's see if I am understanding you correctly....

What you are saying is you are attempting to drive the game, from whichever selected faction, down an historical path & scripting events to encourage that?

Balla.

[Hross]

Well I wouldn't say we are 'driving' we are encouraging the faction (player or AI) to progress within certain historical boundaries. The unique techs that each faction gets will emphasise certain attirbutes that the faction historically underwent (positive and negative). Now historically, there was 100 major events that created the development of Sicilian government and military institutions during the 450 years of the campaign period, and those 100 events such as the invasion of the Angevins or the Aragonese may not happen- but to represent the overall experiences and 'character' of the faction then Sicily will have access to techs that emphasise attributes.

This is just like any mod, or vanilla where you get say Scotland developing pikemen in the middle period. Now, historically they did this as a cheap efficient means to counter English heavy cav. If Scotland hadn't had the experience of the English cav victories, they wouldn't have developed that 'unit'. So even vanilla presupposes certain historical situations- it even tries to create them. Dominion is a bit more detailed in that respect, but it is also a bit more openworld than vanilla in many ways. It's just that the 'rules of the game' are more recognisable as realistic and historical. Hope this makes sense.

[Ballacraine]

Indeed it does.

Thanks for the detailed clarification.

Now that makes a lot more sense to me.

Encouraging the player to play to a faction's historical strengths.

Would that be a more accurate, succinct, crystalisation of your goals then?

( I'm just trying to get a decent grip of where you are trying to take the project. )

Balla.

[Future Filmmaker]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

[Resurrection]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

Yes, Mathilda's CoA has no red. I fail to see the connection though.

[Haertelius Magnus]

...
I want to emphasise that Dominion, (as I have come to realise) is in fact more of a historical simulator than just a strategy game.

This exactly what I am hoping for ....

[Hross]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

We could have used this, but it doesn't really represent Pisa or Florence or the Communes themselves. I believe this was just the personal arms of Matilda, and therefore we wouldn't have been used even by her heirs, which of course she do not have- certainly none that maintained control over the faction that we are calling 'the Tuscan Communes'. Basically it won't work for the Pisa/Florence faction slot.