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Thread: Concerning historical accuracy

  1. #1

    Default Concerning historical accuracy

    Concerning historical accuracy

    I am making an update for the early romans as the maille texture I used looks more like that of a later period. I will also change some shields and maybe add a new unit or two, so you have some new stuff to look at.

    screenshots soon!

    Our Corinthian helmed greeks are set in the period of the Persian wars, and with 8 greek factions its impossible to take the whole greek set of units through the myriad of historical transformations leading up to the post marian roman era.

    That said thereís a good chance we may use one of the later open faced helm types in an upcoming update.

    Generally speaking; rather than making ífictionalí units we try to do the same as in films and find an average ~ and indeed we attempt to make many units graphically similar to some films. In a game with clone units, limited animations and the impossibility of actual historical accuracy ~ due to there being such a vast set of real-life variations, I donít see too much wrong with that.

    We welcome your input on this.


    .
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Will there be proper hoplite formations?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Depends what you mean? there are already overhand anims in the game for those who want that look, I prefer the underhand ones. If enough people ask for them than Iíll change them, but to make them work properly they need the BI shield wall feature which makes the units look really small, and also makes them very strong [we had problem enough with their strength as they are now]. I like to fill as much of the battle map as possible so the battles look more epic.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Dont remove the corinthian helms.. their epic (or at least leave a couple of units with them xD)

    Im ok with both hoplite formations.. but shield_wall makes the battle more epic when you zoom xD

  5. #5

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Yea I like the Corinthian helms best too, I think Iíll keep the greeks as they are and if we got any slots left add a late build of other styles.

    Iíll look into making an overhead anim version of the next update.

    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Yeah I meant by proper hoplite formation I meant this





  7. #7

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    pharoah this is viking style battle not solid hoplite formation

  8. #8
    Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze's Avatar Occasio mihi fertur
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    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    ...you do realise that of all post-Roman European battle styles, that of the Vikings resembles Ancient Greeks the most? They were more disciplined than you might think.
    Last edited by Bull3pr00f de Bodemloze; July 23, 2011 at 04:21 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    lol... i mean the rage of the battle... fighting 1 vs 1 and not in packs... i know vikings were trained/disciplined soldiers.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    No it's hoplte formation they use the over hand it's the closest thing to the actual hoplite on the rtw engine
    Last edited by Pharoah; July 23, 2011 at 06:21 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    You dont get it. Nevermind.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Yes thatís the problem, when the overhead phalanx animations are used the phalanx formation doesnít work, and the men fight individually rather than remaining in a tight pack.

    I donít know if this still applies when the shield-wall formation is used in BI?

    Iíd be happy if someone can tell me if it does? I think some other mods use it.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Well sometimes even with shield_wall some men will leave the phalanx-formation(at the front line) and will just go rambo into the enemy lines xD(usuallly this happens when in guard mode)
    But no, most of the men will stay in formation.

  14. #14
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    AS is right concerning shield wall, as I played XGM on BI for years and dealt with overhand hoplites. The front line might fan out a bit, but the majority of them stay in formation.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    So whatís the overall verdict? I still think the vanilla rtw phalanx is the tightest, but it requires the underhand anim. I am open to persuasion tho, if you guys think its worth loosing tightness in order to have overhand anims, then so be it.

    Personally I cant imagine how men could hold spears above their heads for hours on end ~ do we know for sure this is the historic way?

    Secondly, I want to make late units with perhaps attica helms or whatever they wore during pre-marian roman times? Would such later greeks use the overhand anim or underhand as like Macedonians?
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  16. #16
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    So whatís the overall verdict? I still think the vanilla rtw phalanx is the tightest, but it requires the underhand anim. I am open to persuasion tho, if you guys think its worth loosing tightness in order to have overhand anims, then so be it.

    Personally I cant imagine how men could hold spears above their heads for hours on end ~ do we know for sure this is the historic way?
    I think it's safe to say most people will want the overhand spears, but we could do a few units with underhand anims and thureos-type shields to represent the Iphakratean phalanx.

    Secondly, I want to make late units with perhaps attica helms or whatever they wore during pre-marian roman times? Would such later greeks use the overhand anim or underhand as like Macedonians?
    I would like to see them using the underhand anims to represent the gradual adoption of the Macedonian phalanx by all southern Greeks.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    ok mate, we'll do that
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  18. #18
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    The spears used by Iphikratean Hoplites should be longer than the standard hoplite spear (between 7' and 9'), but shorter than the Macedonian sarissa (13' to 21', depending on where in the formation it was wielded from). Likewise, they should be wearing armor of linen or leather rather than bronze.

    Source: EB Iphikratous Hoplitai description

  19. #19

    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    Ok, but we cannot make spears of different lengths in the formation.

    Did they have small or normal/large shields?
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  20. #20
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Concerning historical accuracy

    They would have used the oval-shaped thureos shield.


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