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Thread: Origin of the Roman purple and black armor?

  1. #1

    Default Origin of the Roman purple and black armor?

    I've seen on several TV programs as well as two movies(Gladiator and the Fourth Wiseman) where Roman soldiers are wearing blackened armor with purple underneath. I know they were suppose to be the Praetorians in Gladiator but Charlie Sheen is just a standard Roman soldier in the Fourth Wiseman and he was dressed the same way. Does anyone know if there is any truth or any account of Roman soldiers dressing like this? Also in HBO's Rome, during Caeser's triumph, Mark Antony is also wearing purple and black armor. Is this a pure Hollywood myth or is their some sort of origin for this type of Roman armor? Just curious because that armor looks ****ing bad ass. It would be cool if Romans really did wear something like that, even if it was only parade armor or something.

  2. #2

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    I don't think that soldiers wearing purple is historical accurate. Purple was very expensive in antiquity, and only the most important persons wore purple: kings and rich noblemen, and in Rome the senators and the emperor.
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    It's hard to say, blackened armor is easy enough to make but as Reb Baron stated, Purple dye was VERY expensive. I for one am going to say that it is done for theatrical effect.




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    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    i think i recall that these uniforms were worn as tribute if someone important died,
    so although i'm sure acuracy is not high on the list most of the time
    most films or tv programs revolve around historical upheaval,
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; March 21, 2006 at 07:37 AM.

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    Eric's Avatar Praepositus
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    If they ever did where it, it was probably just ceremonial parade dress. Though, if you look at medieval tapestries and paintings, soldiers are always in blackened armour. I think this had something to do with armour strength, how armour was the strongest when you first got it from the blacksmith and it was blackened. Something about how polishing armour weakened it. Something like that.
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    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    the origin? hollywood.

    We know that purple was the color of royalty and later the emperors in ancient Rome, and senior senators wore a purple strip down the side of their toga, but I think that's about it. Wasen't purple a very expensive dye back then? I think it was (correct me if I'm wrong) so giving all of the preatorians purple tunics would have been expensive, to say the least.

    @Eric, I've read that blackend armor was supposed to help it from rusting easily (don't know if that's true or not)
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    LSJ's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    As far as I know purple dye was very rare and expensive, and only the nobles, generals, emperors and senior senators would have it.
    Blackened armour was used by Praetorians and generals, but it is simply blackened steel or bronze. Having praetorians wearing purple is unrealistic, except for the commander chief. Roman soldiers would have browns, blues, whites, greys and some reds.
    Even if a soldier could afford purple tunics, he would never wear it to battle. Some soldiers would have worn red because blood stains go unnoticed so it wouldn't be ruined.
    I think that the purples are just Hollywood stuff to make it look cooler. I mean, a line of soldiers in black muscled cuirass and purple cloak is pretty neat.

  8. #8

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    I see. Yeah I figured it was probably a hollywood Roman myth. It's just I've seen Roman soldiers dressed like that in several programs/movies so I was wondering if there was any truth to it. I definetly didn't think that it would be possible to outfit an entire force in purple considering it was considered extremely rare back then and it was the sign of royalty(at least in the late Roman/Byzantine Empire). I think it's impressive enough that the Romans were able to equip every legionary in segmented plate or mail armor and with an excellent sword and a healthy ammount of Pila.

  9. #9

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    Well i admit its a long shot but when the praetorians started selling the empire to the highest bidder, could rich senators given them purple uniforms as part of a bribe to get their political support? I mean by that time they coudnt give a toss about the empire or the econonmy. lol just wanted to line their own pockets.

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    praetorians were important units in rome though were they not? so purple was to signify their importance?

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    Maron's Avatar I'm afraid of everyone
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    it was tyrian purple dye from the city of tyre in phonecia

    from wikipedia:
    Tyrian purple is a purple dye made in the ancient Phoenician city of Tyre from a secretion of Spiny Dye-Murex (Murex brandaris), a marine snail. A similar dye, "Hyacinth Purple" was made from the related Banded Dye-Murex Murex trunculus.

    The dye was expensive: Aristotle assigns a value ten to twenty times its weight in gold! The fast, non-fading dye was an item of luxury trade, prized by Romans, who used it to colour ceremonial robes. Pliny the Elder described the dyeing process of two purples in his Natural History. The Roman mythographer Julius Pollux, writing in the second century CE, asserted (Onomasticon I, 45—49) that the purple dye was first discovered by Heracles, or rather, by his dog, whose mouth was stained purple from chewing on snails along the coast of the Levant.
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  12. #12

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    On Roman re-enactment forums I frequent, this Hollywood 'black praetorian' armour is referred to derisively as 'Darth Vader Praetorian'. It is an invention of the props designers of Gladiator and has no basis in history at all. There is some debate over the standard colour of Roman soldiers' tunics (including those of Praetorian Guards) and general consensus is that they were white, russet red or both (red for field use and white for parade). But never purple or black.

    Hollywood also has this weird idea that armour has to be dull or dirty all the time or that segmenta was made of leather - again, see Gladiator. Armour was, on the contrary, kept as shiny as possible and was polished before battle, because that was a way of emphasising it to often unarmoured opponents.

    Blued armour was fashionable in the late medieval period, largely because fashions come and go. Blued or 'black' seems more prevalent in some medieval manuscript illuminations because armour was often depicted using silver leaf, which looked great at the time but has tarnished to black over the centuries. There is absolutely no Roman armour that I know of that was blacked or blued in this way.

    For detailed information on how Praetorians actually looked see Boris Rankov, The Praetorian Guard

  13. #13

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    in Gladiator i think the soldiers in purple were the emperer's personal guard maybe but hey its hollywood


  14. #14
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCommander
    in Gladiator i think the soldiers in purple were the emperer's personal guard
    that's what the preatorians were
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    Eric's Avatar Praepositus
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    Yeah, why does Hollywood think segmentata was made of leather? I don't think any Post-Marian Roman Soldiers ever wore leather armour.
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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    they use leather because its easier and cheaper to make it from leather. skilled metalworkers are harder to find than people with sewing skills.

    the origin of the purple is as stated above - from a shellfish found in the eastern mediteranean. it was a valuable comodity traded between greeks and phonecians long before the romans appeared - they inherited it from the greeks.

    purple was at times only an imperial colour and thus banned for common people - and far too expensive for them anyway. as far as i recall there is virtually no mention of soldiers ever wearing purple. most of the legions often wore off white if i recall (and my recollection probably isnt as expert as many) but theres literally thousands of different types of parade armour so who knows purple is very unlikely however. as is blackened armour.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiudareiksGunthigg
    On Roman re-enactment forums I frequent, this Hollywood 'black praetorian' armour is referred to derisively as 'Darth Vader Praetorian'. It is an invention of the props designers of Gladiator and has no basis in history at all. There is some debate over the standard colour of Roman soldiers' tunics (including those of Praetorian Guards) and general consensus is that they were white, russet red or both (red for field use and white for parade). But never purple or black.

    Hollywood also has this weird idea that armour has to be dull or dirty all the time or that segmenta was made of leather - again, see Gladiator. Armour was, on the contrary, kept as shiny as possible and was polished before battle, because that was a way of emphasising it to often unarmoured opponents.

    Blued armour was fashionable in the late medieval period, largely because fashions come and go. Blued or 'black' seems more prevalent in some medieval manuscript illuminations because armour was often depicted using silver leaf, which looked great at the time but has tarnished to black over the centuries. There is absolutely no Roman armour that I know of that was blacked or blued in this way.

    For detailed information on how Praetorians actually looked see Boris Rankov, The Praetorian Guard
    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I figured that Roman soldier's tunics were more likely to be off white but I've also heard of the theory that Roman soldiers might have worn red. Perhaps them all wearing the same color gave a degree of uniformity that was even more intimidating to the enemy than seeing a heavily armoured legion coming at them. That's interesting to know about the armor being polished and kept looking its best especially before going into actual battle. Again the pyschological effect the armoured and disciplined legions had on their opponents must have been quite tremendous. Of course it could also work the other way too. The heavy armed legionary seeing the near naked celt charging at him full tilt without regard to personal safety would be pretty unsettling too.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by COTLOD
    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I figured that Roman soldier's tunics were more likely to be off white but I've also heard of the theory that Roman soldiers might have worn red.
    Roman re-enactors have been debating this issue for many years. For a good analysis of the evidence, see the Legio XX Tunic Colour Debate page.

  19. #19
    Aemilianus's Avatar Imperial Legate
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    Default Re: Origin of the Roman purple and black armor?

    The debate about purple tunics really hinges on the monetary issue- I for one believe it was impossible to clothe the Praetorians in it, first of all because there were thousands of them (about the strength of a legion) and because of the monetary issues involved in it. I know from Latin class that the senators (and their children) had purple bands on their togas, and the emperor had purple as well. Other than that, I've heard nothing about any others.

    The legion wore as much red as they possibly could (at least that's what I've been taught), and red dyes were usually much easier to find. I haven't heard anything about them wearing white, but of course it's open to debate.

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