A Dance With Dragons Discussion (spoilers. DO NOT ENTER UNTIL YOU HAVE FINISHED THE BOOK)

[GreekGlory]

+rep man thats brilliant

[HannibalExMachina]

another major spoiler: who really killed kevan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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[Jaime Goldenhand]

another major spoiler: who really killed kevan

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Cartman. Literally the most evil person/thing to ever be created. There is no contest

Also

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Theres no need for spoiler tags Anyone who comes to this thread without finishing the book does so at their own peril. I clearly stated this in the title of the thread

[Fulgrim88]

Yeah, duh. Kevan had really grown on me. Reminded me that Lannisters aren't scheming killers by default. But then again, being a reasonable fella is exactly the reason for his death.

In the end, i'm sorta glad that Martin goes on with the killing. Major characters feel a little too safe by now, so the least he can give (or take) is the second row

I'm wondering about Aegon though. He's described as the perfect Prince, due to his upbringing...but then again there are a few scenes were he comes across rash, willfull and snotty. Is it just me, or might the Targaeryen coin have dropped on the "mad" side with this one, and it's only just beginning?

Also: Dany has her Moonblood. Now i don't know much about barren woman (as in wether that stops their period), but i get the feeling that she might be fertile again. Makes me wonder about the rest of Mirri Maz Duurs prophecy

[Jaime Goldenhand]

The google machine seems to think that in some/most cases being infertile/ baren does not stop the menstrual cycle. This means Dany could still be infertile but I really hope she isn't. For all we know Mirri Maz Dur was just being a lying scheming and told her she couldn't have kids. I had always hoped this was true and that she would have a kid with Jon (with it being true that he is Rhaegar/Lyanna's son) but now I kinda hope that its with Aegon (only if he isn't crazy).
Also I really wanted to learn more about Archmaester Marwyn AKA the Mage who went off to help dany. Have we seen him in the books? He isn't the Halfmaester because he has been with them the whole time but I wonder how he is doin.
All hail Victarion. Lord Badass of the Iron Isles and soon to be dragonrider. He will be a flying kraken. And now that he is all wierd/awesome and powerful because of the red priest I love him even more.
Edit: My brother also brought up the possibility of Septa Lemore being Ashara Dayne. The women who Ned supposedly knocked up and got pregant

[HannibalExMachina]

now we shall see how much grrm knows about gyneology.

and flying kraken is nearly as cool as zombie dragon...

just for the lulz

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[Fulgrim88]

needs more chins

[HannibalExMachina]

i know, but then i need a completely new model

[Fulgrim88]

How about a "four chins"-ancillary, giving +hit points?

[himself007]

I don't think Jon Snow is dead, and I don't say that simply out of hoping that he's alive, I say it because if Martin kills him off, he loses his main POV character for the Wall and much of the North. Who would replace him? Melisandre? Asha? Someone new? I doubt it. None of the existing POVs are really good substitutes, and I don't see who would make a compelling new POV.

It is likely that he will no longer be Lord Commander, but that's a good thing, his chapters as LC are far worse than his previous chapters, and I think Martin's plan all along was not to keep him as Lord Commander for too long. It's possible that he won't even be Night's Watch anymore, but I get the feeling he will still be in the area of the Wall.

Plus, after the reaction to that letter, we know there is going to be blood and battle in the North, and I think Martin wants to showcase that through the POV of Snow.

I do hope you are right, i really love Jon, and it really made me sad to read what had happen to him, of all the characters in the book he was the one that accomplished many thinks in order to restore the Night Watchers their long lost power (without the help of the Seven Kingdoms), and he had much to do indeed, for the wall , for the free people, for the realm, so it would be good to be alive, and when Tyrion dropped in the lake also fought that he was dead, and well... he was alive, thanks to our Lord Connigton.

But my point is, Hes dead. you may ask why. and i can tell you so, well, Benjen Stark may be alive, for the plot device Martin did not show him dead to us, although its not likely to happen. but he could be the new POV. but the main reason i do think that Jon is dead, it's because of the plot device that George uses, i mean nobody have too much plot armor, and that's the fun of it. the other reason would be that the writer could not come with any idea about how to show his true heritage (Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon) without making him so much protected, so after all he did to restore the wall, he dies, to make the most wanted coming of Daernerys needed, soon all the realm will be crushed and nobody will withstand the winter, mainly because the wall will be done for.

Also when i think about him going to "talk" with Ramsay, it did not feel right, if he wanted so, why the he let the chance to claim his Stark name? i mean, the hour to claim the North was with Stannis, not now. i hated that about him....

[Jebe]

There is also the possibility of Jon being brought back by Melisandre. Thoros did the same with Beric Dondarrion several times and as she notes, her power has grown stronger at the Wall. If Jon is Azor Ahai, that would fit in. Wishful thinking, I suppose. Was not expecting Jon to get Julius Caesar-ed.

[himself007]

true, he really was stabbed, and not just once but four times.

Bowen must be an utter fool, I'm not talking about the act itself but of the moment it happens. Stabbing someone whose name was just cheered by a hell of a lot of armed angry wildlings isn't really a smart move. Tormund will not let this go unanswered.
I fear for a bloodbath at the wall, just as the Others arrive.

That letter form Ramsay Bolten came as a total surprise to me. The last we saw of Stannis was the arrival of the Braavosi banker with Theon at his camp. Then Jon Snow gets this letter, and we are to believe Stannis is dead? How could GRRM just kill him off like that? I would expect that something of that battle was shown, we have two POVs down there.

I just love Essos, I see plenty of material for a Slaverbay based submod when this mod is released.


The invasion of the golden company could be added to the main mod.

Agree with you, how we do not know about Stannis with POVS around, would make no sense... well, they can talk it about later thou. for the wall it will be bloodsheed.

[himself007]

There is also the possibility of Jon being brought back by Melisandre. Thoros did the same with Beric Dondarrion several times and as she notes, her power has grown stronger at the Wall. If Jon is Azor Ahai, that would fit in. Wishful thinking, I suppose. Was not expecting Jon to get Julius Caesar-ed.

True! if Stannis really dead, then we are left with Danny and Jon, then Jon dead, so only Danny to be the Azor Ahai! or to be reborn like Beric, man love your idea!! thanks, it made me happy that's why i came to discuss, someone like you to enlight my mind! if i known how to give rep , i would.

[Fulgrim88]

I mentioned that likely possibilty on page one. Does nobody follow the discussion?^^

You give rep by clicking on that small green (+) below somebodys name, next to the report button btw.

[himself007]

I have to agree that Ramsay Snow's letter contains some lies. Let's be honest, Stannis' host at this point was so weak that it probably wouldn't have even lasted seven days of battle. Plus, Roose is too cautious to seek out Stannis in the snow. Once the infighting began, I bet he pulled back to the Dreadfort, realizing that it is better to let Stannis and his men starve and freeze while his are in relative comfort than it is to hold a bunch of ruins. Stannis is probably still alive, though his army is severely weakened by the storm.

He almost certainly has Mance though; I doubt he got away, and how could he know who he really was if he hadn't tortured him?

I was hoping to Manderly to bring help to Stannis, but i do not think that he had what it takes to do so....also, how can he have Mance? i do agree that he have him, but how? i mean Mance is a expert ranger. my only thought is that when Theon runs with Jeane, Mance appear to give help.

I mentioned that likely possibilty on page one. Does nobody follow the discussion?^^

You give rep by clicking on that small green (+) below somebodys name, next to the report button btw.

On page one everybody was hiding what they were saying because it was spoilers, so i did not appreciate those kind of people and jump to read the others. sorry for that.

Hurr Durr. I think i'll start with some minor things, earlier in the Book, less of a spoiler and more of a discussion:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First of all, what do you think about the characters behaviour, chiefly Dany & Jon? During the book i came to realize again, just how young they really are. Dany, especially
She basically reaps the fruits of her naive actions & hopes now. Leaves a bitter taste, but still hats off to GRRM, because truth be told, it's only realistic. Slavers Bay is no place you can easily change.

Totally true, i mean. she came to a city that was like - and wanna change to *. what ? but nothing else to say about her thou.

About Jon, i'm really wandering if he had some other type of approach with the people around him, if it would have came to be different, but the only thing that come to my mind is how slow to understand a knew type of thing the people can be in Westeros or in any place, indeed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What do you guys think about Essos? I was blown away by the description of the ancient Rhoynar Cities, which really send my mind wandering. Same with all the other sunken Empires over there. I think it's a very exotic & interesting continent, far more mystical than Westeros

thats why i liked grrm, we have a lot of world out there, not just Westeros, but i always think about how old he is and that he will die soon ¬¬

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Favourite Characters so far, or, how have your favourite characters changed? I for one grow more and more fond of Victarion, simply because he's badass Favourite characters would still be Tyrion, Daenerys & Littlefinger though, even though the latter doesn't make an appearance. One guy that lost a great deal of respect is Jon Snow. He always had more of his father than was good for him (as in being a stubborn, honour bound fool), but he's now adding an unhealthy dose of rashness combined with an utter lack of cunning & tactfulness, surrounding himself with enemies with every move.
Spoilery:

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Sad to say, but in the end i would've stabbed him myself

why you would do that to him? i mean, you are not of common birth, you understand the logical about the wights and night walkers, so even understanding that , would you stab him? but i agree with the fact the he was his father son.

i really love Tyrion, Tyrion > Jon > Davos

A character that has gained some love would be Melisandre. I was surprised to have her become a PoV character at some point, and wonder wether GRRM will expand on that. Basically, she's just acting tough, but actually trying her best to aid what she believes to be Azor Ahai

[Jaime Goldenhand]

I had not thought about Melisandre bringing back Jon but that seems likely to happen now.
@himself: you will not be able to give rep until you have 35 posts, or some other number, and been on for 2 weeks.

[Evilstein]

Ahhh !! I'm french and I have to wait !!
Well I can read it in English too , but I'm lazy....

[Saladin]

kevan lannister dead, aegon still alive, jon snow stabbed and not knowing the outcome, g.r.r.m is the man. i just hope it's not another six years to learn more about what's going on in king's landing. heh, i was actually cheering for quentyn in his quest to wed dany, but we all know how that went. maybe arianne can still wed a dragon.... "vengeance, and fire and blood"

[Kolaris8472]

I couldn't have guessed that one of my favourite characters, Dany, would manage to eclipse Cersei as my most hated PoV character.

Was hoping Quentyn would manage to take a dragon to show her how they should be used and get her ass in gear, but clearly that didn't work...her realization that she's been screwing up with them wasn't as satisfying as I wanted.

At least he managed to free them, and Barristan the Bold is taking charge.

[Ima Farmathar]

Ramsay snow is now my favorite character, to bad hes gonna die.

reek reek it rhymes with meek

Hilarious!!!

also, loved Frey pies!

Im glad jon snow is dead, they haven't killed anyone interesting for a wile, hope dany dies too she is just to incompetent, a la ned stark, she deserves to die.


who do yo think plays the game best?

i think it is little finger, and after that probably the enuch but his side seems incompetent, Roose could be a great player i am really rooting for him now, but his goals are not clear.

Arya is becoming amazing far more willful than reek, she was my favorite so far, but Ramsay is just tooo cool!


reek reek it rhymes with meek