Kotor 1-2 "SPOILERS!"

[Fluttershy]

ok before anyone reads farther this will have huge spoilers for Kotor 1 and 2, read no farther if you havent played them and dont want it spoiled

this will eventually lead into a rant about kotor 2 and its LOOOOOOOOOOONG, read at your own risk

Kotor 1 part:

I played Kotor 1 way back when it 1st came out and loved it, so when I saw it on steam last week for $2.50 I bought it... And I played through it again and again, I loved it. Graphics of course are dated but the story is one of, if not the best stories in an RPG ive ever played. The game seemed to get everything right, the characters were great (Bastila being my favorite with Jolee a close 2nd). It had a great twist, 1st time I played through I was shockedto find out the pc was Revan the second time through I noticed all the hints and im sure many of you figured it out, but to me it was masterful story telling. From the very beginning you felt like you were on a mission and there was an important goal!

And the romance well... Im not a fan of romances in games for the most part... getting my character to nail some pixels doesent really interest me, except for when the romance seems to be able to change or enhance the main story. Kotor pulled this off I think as the Bastila romance seemed (to me at least) to greatly enhance the game for my lightside playthrough as you get to redeem your "love interest" and makes the last boss fight even more personal, adding to the "epicness". Not to mention your "link" with bastila was important and well established through out the game.

THe games so good I just wish they would make another one with a great story like the 1st and perhaps the party interaction you see i DA or ME...

Kotor 2 part:

So after loving Kotor even more the second time around I asked myself "why did I never finish the second one?" I had bought the 2nd kotor way back when it was new and never gotten past pegarus station or whatever it was called. And I actually couldnt remember why.

so after finding out it strangely wasnt on steam I obtained a copy and gave it a go. 1st off... I dont think ive ever played an RPG that started off with an area as boring as pegarus station... It felt like I spent freaking hours (not sure how long) fighting some mining droids... I know starting areas are supposed to be boring but I felt like I was stuck on that stupid station for FAR FAR too long. Kotor 1 I wake up and the sith are boarding my republic cruiser and I have to try and get to our jedi commander( whom we are told is very important) to protect her, failing that we evacuate the ship and I meet my 1st permanent party member, an at least semi interesting soldier/pilot/war hero. The game started off exciting and made me interested, it let me know bastila was important and I felt I was fighting a real enemy.

In kotor 2 I just wake up on a mining asteroid... with a bunch of droids im told arent built for combat and arent that dangerous... I meet an unpleasent old woman and im pretty much told that shes gonna be a party member... Ok old people in my party are fine! Hell I thought Jolee was awesome in kotor 1 but... kreia... I kinda hoped she would die off like Trask in kotor 1 but... nope...

this was the 1st big difference in the game to me... in kotor 1 it starts off exciting and your given an important mission right away... in kotor 2 I found the beginning to just be brutally boring... fighting enemies you dont care about and not really knowing whats going on.

The next thing that bugged me is it felt like there was almost no continuity from kotor 1-2.
even after telling atton that Revan was a hero etc and that you were lightside Im informed that im supposed to be the "last jedi"? How does that even make sense? After kotor 1 as lightside the Sith are smashed and there are clearly plenty of jedi left... council on coruscant, the bunch actually AT the battle we saw survive etc...

It just didnt make sense to me from the stories pov that there are suddenly no jedi despite the Republic crushing the Sith at the star forge... I just dont feel the start of the story made sense.

Now im not too far into the game... Ive only visited one planet after Telos (dantoonine) but I seriously feel theres something horribly wrong with the story line... usually at this point in an RPG im enraptured but im having issues caring... like supposedly my characters past is important but I dont feel the games filled me in enough... Like in Kotor 1 your lack of a past is explained away by the amnesia and latewr you find out mind wipe... in kotor 2 they just flat out dont tell me... I just feel that if my past is supposed to be relevant they should let me know early on or give a reason for WHY I dont know...

also... Im finding who or what the villain is to be too vague so far... in DA im informed early on its the blight or Loghain, in ME I find out early its SAren... in Kotor its quite clear its Malak... but in kotor 2 I feel im fighting but I dont care as my enemy isnt really clear... if that makes any sense.

Also... I feel some of the companions are just forced on you in a sloppy manner... I mean the blind chick? I get 1 cut scene with her then suddenly shes on my ship and then I fight her and just say "herp derp welcome to the crew!"

see at least Juhani or whatever from kotor 1 I send back to the council after I beat her and some time passes before she joins me... this blind chick is bad, then suddenly on my team... I just dont think it really made sense.





So my question to any of you who have played it... does it get better? Will I fall in love with the story? Or is this just nowhere near the quality of kotor 1 story wise.

As im still playing it could we avoid being too specfic on anything past dantoonie?

Id just really like to know if others felt that kotor 2 ... really failed after the greatness of kotor 1...

as I finish up the game im sure ill have more complaints

[Paul d]

Yeah, I played the second game before the first one. Gameplay mechanics wise, it was better. I liked being able to influence your party members.

But the first one actually had a coherent plot, and I actually cared about what was happening.

I agree with you.

[Fluttershy]

Yeah, I played the second game before the first one. Gameplay mechanics wise, it was better. I liked being able to influence your party members.

But the first one actually had a coherent plot, and I actually cared about what was happening.

I agree with you.

oh since youve done the second one and im still a little lost... is there some kind of influence bar? I cant figure out how to tell how much influence I have with companions

[PGeo36]

Get the Kotor 2 Restored content mod. It puts in a crap load of stuff that was cut due to time constraints because Lucasarts wasn't willing to delay it past the holiday season. Also there's a skip Peragus mod too so you don't have to go through that.

[Fluttershy]

Get the Kotor 2 Restored content mod. It puts in a crap load of stuff that was cut due to time constraints because Lucasarts wasn't willing to delay it past the holiday season. Also there's a skip Peragus mod too so you don't have to go through that.

I actually have that mod... but I just finished the 1st planet ive been too (dantoonine) and theres a cut scene where the handmaiden and the blind chick have some kind of cat fight over the exile then the old lady starts talking to the handmaiden like im romancing the blind chick...

did I get ninja romanced? I know that in kotor 1 the "hitting on bastila" lines were pretty obvious... I dont recall selecting any "romantic" lines with the blind chick (I dont even think ive seen 1!)

and now the handmaiden is mad at me???

EDIT: great, 1 planet in and now 1 character will never speak to me again because I somehow got too much influence on another... despite only using the other one for 1 planet


this game is so confusing

[{GrailKnight}]

Just keep playing the game, you can't really judge everything about the game after only playing the first two planets/worlds. Also with the restored content mod, you will have a good time playing this game.. so just keep playing and It will make sense to you and everything should become more clear as to what is going on. It will definitely grow on you. IMO Kotor II is better, only by a small margin (so I may sound a bit biased, but overall it is a very good game )

[MortenJessen]

oh since youve done the second one and im still a little lost... is there some kind of influence bar? I cant figure out how to tell how much influence I have with companions

Hi there.
"Influence" in KotoR 2 is called ALIGNMENT, and it is shown in the party inventory screen. If you your self is very light and your companions are very light too (those who love good deeds that is; HK-47 will still be very dark as "he" loves violence and murder), you have a very high influence on that party member. If you on the other hand is very dark, and your partymembers (those that hate that, that is; HK-47 will love you for it) are very light, you have very low influence on them.
That said, Kreia can not be changed, and some partymembers like, well, HK-47 will only respond well to various acts of violence, so be carefull.
Hope this helps you.
M. Jessen
Edit: You can simply get the same information from the party selection screen too. If the partymember is completely blue they are light side (see above) and if they are red or dark red they are dark side (see above).

[Darth Red]

It's been a while since I touched either of these games but just to add, you can manipulate good characters to bad and vice versa. So long as you know them a little bit and where they stand, answer all the diologe questions what you think they want to hear.

For instance the Handmaiden is light, so when speaking to her I always answered in a 'light side' frame of mind even though I was completly dark. You will lose some dark points but I found there are plenty of opertunities to get back the little bit of dark that was lost in a conversation

As for influence with Visas/Handmaiden I found it was better to court Handmaiden first before Visas then you can get the benifits from both. Also I never use Handmaiden in combat or lever her up until she is ready for 'special' training. You will know when you hit that point, just keep plugging away at the conversation. Just leave her on the ship but keep talking to her in between missions. That way there you can hold off her levels and maximize her levels (I think she starts at lv 6). If you are dead set into Handmaiden then you may have to start over as I don't know if there is a way to 'get her back' after that instance that you described. :/

I tried to edit out spoilers but it's hard to give advice how to map out your characters yet not spoil a part that you haven't gotten to yet!

[Knight of Heaven]

It's been a while since I touched either of these games but just to add, you can manipulate good characters to bad and vice versa. So long as you know them a little bit and where they stand, answer all the diologe questions what you think they want to hear.

For instance the Handmaiden is light, so when speaking to her I always answered in a 'light side' frame of mind even though I was completly dark. You will lose some dark points but I found there are plenty of opertunities to get back the little bit of dark that was lost in a conversation

As for influence with Visas/Handmaiden I found it was better to court Handmaiden first before Visas then you can get the benifits from both. Also I never use Handmaiden in combat or lever her up until she is ready for 'special' training. You will know when you hit that point, just keep plugging away at the conversation. Just leave her on the ship but keep talking to her in between missions. That way there you can hold off her levels and maximize her levels (I think she starts at lv 6). If you are dead set into Handmaiden then you may have to start over as I don't know if there is a way to 'get her back' after that instance that you described. :/

I tried to edit out spoilers but it's hard to give advice how to map out your characters yet not spoil a part that you haven't gotten to yet!

well to be honest you can do that with Mira or the Disciple ( if you playing with female caracther) and atton. I mostly only play with then, or rather level up then, when they are ready to do so.

Oh also the iridonean friend its good to level up after the training.

[Darth Red]

well to be honest you can do that with Mira or the Disciple ( if you playing with female caracther) and atton. I mostly only play with then, or rather level up then, when they are ready to do so.

Oh also the iridonean friend its good to level up after the training.

Yeah that too. Infact I don't believe that you even need to be female in order to train the other guys. All you have to do is influence them, get them to trust and like you. I am also fairly certain that all party members gave a little something back to you, a boost to you in whatever it is that they do well when you max out your influence with them as well, though don't quote me on that cause it's been a while and my memory is still a bit fuzzy.

[Knight of Heaven]

Yeah that too. Infact I don't believe that you even need to be female in order to train the other guys. All you have to do is influence them, get them to trust and like you. I am also fairly certain that all party members gave a little something back to you, a boost to you in whatever it is that they do well when you max out your influence with them as well, though don't quote me on that cause it's been a while and my memory is still a bit fuzzy.

Yes you are quite right its a glorific quotation

but i meant you need to be female to have the disciple as character. You have him, when you go to Dantoeine in the jedi Enclave Ruins. Instead of the Handmeiden that you got with a Male charater.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

The second game had a ton better features and looked much nicer, but the story was inferior. KOTOR 1 was great, I played it like 8 hours a day every day until I beat it, then did another playthrough right after that.

[Astor]

I'd have to disagree with you. I think the story in KotOR was extremely predictable, and so many elements bordered on cliche. TSL had a much darker tone, a more mature story and extremely interesting and deep characters.

[Fluttershy]

well finished it... was decent, but didnt really hold a candle to kotor 1 imo...

I mean what was with Darth Nihlius? After the blind chick building him up I expected some kind of epic conversation to learn about the guy... instead I get there... he mumbles at me (which isnt translated) then easily dies...Im really not even sure why he was in the game. I mean they tell us he easily destroyed a planet with the force yet... hes laughably easy to fight.

and DArth trayas academy... all those rooms in cells with just a ton of easy to kill sith and noone to talk to... what was the point?

I was actually getting into the story in the middle... but then it seemed to jump the shark... Kinda expected more from Atris and Darth Nihlius... they were made out to be important early but didnt really end up doing much...

and did anyone actually NOT figure out that Kreia was a bad guy oh I dunno... about a minute after you meet her on Pegarus?

and the "romances"... kinda feel they may as well not have even been there... werent fleshed out at all.

and the ending... UGH, 25-30 hours of gameplay and they COULDNT add a dramatic ending? The old bat just says "Revan? No idea where he is, oh ya all your friends will be fine... kk imma die now" No awesome cinematic? No closure? I could have lived with the games very average to below average plot if they gave a real ending...

Annoys me how theres no third one too give the series a proper ending (TOR doesent count... im looking forward to it but we all know that MMOs butcher lore!)


characters were good at least, although I feel like most of them didnt have NEARLY enough Dialogue. Really liked Mira and Atton.

In closing... gameplay was fine, fun even. Characters were mostly interesting... but the plot and especially the ending were huge let downs... sadly I play RPGs almost solely for the story so this was a huge et down for me


I only wish Bioware had made Kotor 2. Need more Revan/Bastila!

[Knight of Heaven]

I'd have to disagree with you. I think the story in KotOR was extremely predictable, and so many elements bordered on cliche. TSL had a much darker tone, a more mature story and extremely interesting and deep characters.

More vague you mean with no real porpuse? that isnt mature or cliché... its incomplete. KOTOR was complete a sense of begining and a midle and a end, and thus making a far better game, its only big fault, its that there isnt more on game to explore.

Vexille: I agree with you in somethings, and generaly speaking, but the experience is way diferent if you are using the The restored content mod IMO Malachor V nows make more sense, when you have to free your alies, or kill then. Romance wasnt never the very strong of KOTORS btw. And if you play dark side, with a diferent charater the game its a diferent experience, with diferent companions for instance. SO i think the game isnt that bad, its fun to play, but it realy is incomplete, still there is mods that help with that.

[{GrailKnight}]

@ Vexille, the reason that Nihilius couldn't kill you had to do with the Exile being a "wound' in the force and he was visibly tired when he tried to drain the force from you. He could have easily drained any other Jedi's force, but the Exile was something special... (if that makes sense).

[Astor]

More vague you mean with no real porpuse? that isnt mature or cliché... its incomplete. KOTOR was complete a sense of begining and a midle and a end, and thus making a far better game, its only big fault, its that there isnt more on game to explore.

Sounds to me as though you simply didn't understand the story and therefore understandably didn't like it.
Sure, some questions were left unanswered but for the most part the story was extremely clear, and complete, especially with the restored content mod.
What is cliche is the plot of KotOR, ending with the heroes gazing into the sunset to the sound of cheers.
Besides, who doesn't like a little ambiguity and mystery in a story? Leaves room for exciting sequels.

[Knight of Heaven]

Sounds to me as though you simply didn't understand the story and therefore understandably didn't like it.
Sure, some questions were left unanswered but for the most part the story was extremely clear, and complete, especially with the restored content mod.
What is cliche is the plot of KotOR, ending with the heroes gazing into the sunset to the sound of cheers.
Besides, who doesn't like a little ambiguity and mystery in a story? Leaves room for exciting sequels.

sight...sorry if i did not make my self clear, but that wasnt what i meant at all. I did like KOTOR 2 vannila, but i found it imcomplete specialy when i find out and played the restored content mod, were alot things makes more sense, specialy malachor V.

And Please not everybody is dumb as to not understand a simple story, in fact Kotor 2 is a simple story, the way they tell it is a bit confusing or rather lack rythm and is a bit disconnected like they had all the pieces, and put it wrongly. Also the end is a open end wich you say very well leaves room for exciting sequels that never came btw... but its not satisfying end for a game. sorry this isnt a movie its a game, and in the end the player needs to feell that acomplish something , and in the whole game you feel that you dont have any major goal at all. its like you were searching the jedi master just becouse.... to satisfy your own curiosity and to know more about the force bonds and your past, wich is ridiculous, since the exile doesnt even have amenesia. Its inconsistancies everywhere, and attempts to cover those inconsistancies. its badly told. The way companions fall on your leap is ridicoulous, they just folow you , just becouse they want to folow you...( ist the force ) at least in KOTOR 1 you had a reason for your companions be there, Calo Nord, you need him to get out of taris, becouse only he have the connections to davik, HK you need him becouse you need a translator to talk with the sand people, Jolie knows the way and to disable the barrier on the low shadowlands etc. There is plausible reason to be there. Even T3-M3 you need to buy to acess teh sith base on taris.
Im sorry but its a storywriter thing, that we all learn in the school how to write a story and KOTOR 2 story is badly writen. As oposite to KOTOR 1.
Dont get me wrong i loved kotor 2 and its a better game thecnicaly with more features, and more options more complex on the upgrade systems, gameplay is great. But in the storytelling, KOTOR 1 is Better made.

[{GrailKnight}]

^ I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one :/ I enjoyed KOTOR II more than I.. I felt the darker theme was better and the slightly improved combat made fighting more interesting. Though I love KOTOR I and was the very first RPG I played and finished.

[Knight of Heaven]

Yes well off course everyone owns experiences by playing the KOTORs that should count to ground our individual opinions.