Square formation and conscripted units

**Chevalier IX** · June 30, 2011, 12:06 AM

So then after looking through various contemporary manuals and doctrines I have seen no viable reason as to why Militia units and many of the AOR units are lacking the use of a square formation.Is this intended as a differentiator between the regular and non regular units???I have the utmost respect for this mod over all others as its attributes and qualities are without match,but i would like to open this up for some discussion,for I am of the mind that these units should indeed have the usage of the square as by this point in time it was a base doctrine amongst all nations,including the irregular and militia units(in fact I do believe in the campaigns of 1813/14 there are references to the landwher forming square..they got cut to pieces anyway..but they still did so..perhaps allow them the formation without bonus against cav of the same degree as other more hardened formations...

**Tullius Tiro** · July 02, 2011, 12:08 PM

The smallest force to form a square was the battalion (500 -1000 men).
First of all, it required training and discipline to form a square. But during battle, the situation on the field and the combat experiance of the soldiers where very important factors too.

Militia and conscripts did not had that kind of training, experiance and discipline. There might have been exceptions, but in my opinion they only prove the rule.

I like the way it's done in LME by the way. It makes battles much more challenging and fun, when you can't form squares everywhere and everytime you would need them. Army formations and cavalry tacticts get more important that way. It also feels much more historically accurate.

**gary** · July 22, 2011, 02:37 AM

there may be a point for conscripts being able to for square as most of boney's army were conscripts... however landw and militian units were never able to do this complex manouver... in fact they were barly able to for line and tended to be in column because of there moral and training... if they did form any find of line then it would effect there cohesion and thier moral...

**bloody bill** · August 18, 2011, 02:13 PM

"At first it was only so-so with the Landwehr battalions, but now that they've had a good taste of powder, they're as good as the line battalions." Blucher

In 1815 in the battle of Ligny, the II Btn. of 1.Westphalian Landwehr formed square on top of a hill near Brye. The Landwehr was charged three times by French cuirassiers and heavy cavalry of Old Guard. Each time the Landwehr fired volley and the French retired with casualties.

Prussian Militia (Landwehr) battalions as with many other nations could form square fight in line and perform like most line Battalions in theory. They as a whole were not as well trained nor did they stand and fight as good or as long but they for the most part had the basic training required to perform as a line Battalion. They had in general weaker morale and less discipline but they would be able to form square. Also I noticed the Brunswickers cannot form square and they were considered of good quality infantry.

**FilipVonZietek** · August 18, 2011, 04:38 PM

Worse quality militias formed close order blocks to defend themsleves aganst cavalry (something that looks like pike square)

Implying that conscripts and landwehr couldnt square renders your historical knoweldge to be very shallow.

**gary** · August 19, 2011, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by FilipVonZietek

Worse quality militias formed close order blocks to defend themsleves aganst cavalry (something that looks like pike square)

Implying that conscripts and landwehr couldnt square renders your historical knoweldge to be very shallow.

mate.. it's a game Ok remember....you know a program... i am not shallow!!!!!!!! we are not all professors.. i just go off what i have read... chill....

**gary** · August 19, 2011, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by bloody bill

"At first it was only so-so with the Landwehr battalions, but now that they've had a good taste of powder, they're as good as the line battalions." Blucher

In 1815 in the battle of Ligny, the II Btn. of 1.Westphalian Landwehr formed square on top of a hill near Brye. The Landwehr was charged three times by French cuirassiers and heavy cavalry of Old Guard. Each time the Landwehr fired volley and the French retired with casualties.

Prussian Militia (Landwehr) battalions as with many other nations could form square fight in line and perform like most line Battalions in theory. They as a whole were not as well trained nor did they stand and fight as good or as long but they for the most part had the basic training required to perform as a line Battalion. They had in general weaker morale and less discipline but they would be able to form square. Also I noticed the Brunswickers cannot form square and they were considered of good quality infantry.

Good point mate,,, perhaps the cohesion of the formed square would not be as solid as say a vetran unit.

**TheRomanRuler** · August 20, 2011, 02:22 AM

For militia and other conscript units Sguare wont fit, but you SHOULD add that to light infrantrary (not skirmishers)
But please remove that "lazy stand" from Militia/Landwheir, after all, they served in army, but those armed citizens didn`t. So, keep "lazy stand" only Mob, and remove it from others, even skirmishers
I really like the way Napoleonic III did it

**bloody bill** · August 21, 2011, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by TheRomanRuler

For militia and other conscript units Sguare wont fit, but you SHOULD add that to light infrantrary (not skirmishers)
But please remove that "lazy stand" from Militia/Landwheir, after all, they served in army, but those armed citizens didn`t. So, keep "lazy stand" only Mob, and remove it from others, even skirmishers
I really like the way Napoleonic III did it

Why does square not fit for Militia? As almost all Militia units could form square or Block formation.