Sword of the Stars II

[Lord Baal]

Is coming our way, the great Kerberos Studios production is now under the tutelage of Paradox...
What are your opinions about it?

[TheBromgrev]

While it looks good, I'm predicting that in true Paradox style it will be full of game-killing bugs because no one bothered to beta test it. Hell, 12 hours after For the Motherland was released on gamersgate it was revealed that none of the stuff in Semper Fi patches after 2.03 made it into FtM I wouldn't be surprised if SotS 2 was similar after its initial release.

[Kanaric]

While it looks good, I'm predicting that in true Paradox style it will be full of game-killing bugs because no one bothered to beta test it. Hell, 12 hours after For the Motherland was released on gamersgate it was revealed that none of the stuff in Semper Fi patches after 2.03 made it into FtM I wouldn't be surprised if SotS 2 was similar after its initial release.

Paradox doesn't make Sword of the Stars and the first game was simple and fairly bug free. Unfortunately it was too simple of a game for me, I like more micro and colony management like in Master of Orion 2. That game was more like Master of Orion 1.

Also I can tell you first hand that Paradox does beta test their games, otherwise I wouldn't be a beta tester right now. Its more to do with how much work can a small company do.

If you want to see REALLY buggy games check out companies like Bethesda's first products like Daggerfall or Arena back when they were small.

[Lord Baal]

If you want to see REALLY buggy games check out companies like Bethesda's first products like Daggerfall or Arena back when they were small.

Or errmm...empire, nappy, shogun 2...

In all seriousness I also don't think the game it's coming out with a load of bugs.

I agree with you that the first one was a little too simple for what I expect from a game of this caliber! However I still enjoy the heck out of it! In the second one this will be improved by having a new level, the star system one! Now every star system will be a complete collection of planets, moons and other bodies that can be colonization/owned individually by several factions! So now you have the galactic strategy map, the star system strategic map and the tactical space battles map!

After this the only thing needed to achieve perfection would be a land strategy map of every planet (ala Total War or Dawn of War Dark Crusade) and tactical land battles! Now that's a game I would pay 200$ or more to own!

[Space Voyager]

Paradox doesn't make Sword of the Stars and the first game was simple and fairly bug free. Unfortunately it was too simple of a game for me, I like more micro and colony management like in Master of Orion 2. That game was more like Master of Orion 1.

It was a bit too simple, before Born of Blood expansion came along. That made the game near perfect for me and the other two expansions made it even better.

Having six races with six (arguably five) different ways of travel through space and VERY well balanced is something that seems impossible. Until you play SotS, naturally.

If my reviews don't speak for themselves, I posted a collection of SotS (upgraded with all expansions) AARs in the appropriate forum, too. I'll probably be doing one more with Zuul, as they play most differently from the rest of the races. For instance, they have no trade but they gather slaves. And they slowly destroy their own worlds by default.

Anyway, I can't wait for SotS2, but I'll have to do a serious hardware upgrade (read: buy a new comp) as DX10 is a minimum requirement.

[Hotspur]

Paradox doesn't make Sword of the Stars and the first game was simple and fairly bug free. Unfortunately it was too simple of a game for me, I like more micro and colony management like in Master of Orion 2. That game was more like Master of Orion 1.

Also I can tell you first hand that Paradox does beta test their games, otherwise I wouldn't be a beta tester right now. Its more to do with how much work can a small company do.

If you want to see REALLY buggy games check out companies like Bethesda's first products like Daggerfall or Arena back when they were small.

And this was as true then as it is now, Brom. Blaming Paradox makes just as much sense as blaming Steam.

Herpa derp.

[TheBromgrev]

And this was as true then as it is now, Brom. Blaming Paradox makes just as much sense as blaming Steam.

Herpa derp.

Yet my prediction from back in JUNE was correct, so herpa derp yourself Magicka wasn't developed by PI, yet it too was released as a buggy POS, just like SotS2, HOI3, Vicky2, and I wouldn't be surprised if CK2 and the Vicky 2 expansion are as well. Magicka got much better later, just as all games released by PI get better after a bit. The problem is that everything PI releases is so damn buggy that I'll never again buy something from them again until a few months go by. The good thing is that I can almost always expect the major kinks (most of which are blatantly obvious, yet betas didn't catch them, like Poland's non-existent surrender in FtM or Nat. Spain not getting cores or units if it won the civil war, to name a few) to be worked out in about 2 months after release, something other companies can't claim.

[John I Tzimisces]

Hmm. A re-examination of the audio issues.

Things that seemed in the past to cause my sound to cut out: Ending a turn which then had the AI doing a combat simulation.

After a little playtest, I played for about 10-15 turns, researched the particle beam, and redesigned my primary fighting cruiser. Satisfied with my design (I *do* really like the ship design screen), I went to do a weapons test. Sound cut out in the middle of the first volley. I suppose it's possible specific sound effects could be linked to the audio cutting out, but obviously at the start of a campaign there isn't really tremendous variety, and ship designs can end up with most of the available techs (if you're doing it right ). So, it seems either of those things can cause the sound to cut out: Don't think I've experienced anything else causing it, but since weapons fire and combat simulation is *going* to happen, it's rather annoying.

Admirals icon/details seems to be displaced to the bottom too far when assigning survey or colony missions, which covers some text.

Fooled around with some colonization. Colonized a second, very ideal planet in one of my controlled systems. Was able to continue supporting the colony with my colonial fleet as it developed. Presumably the more colony ships you have assigned to this task the faster terraforming/infrastructure goes. not really clear on what "biosphere" does. Later, surveyed a red giant system with a single detectable planet. Surveying revealed it had two moons, one of which was habitable. Colonized it without a hitch.

No clue what the hell "solar activity" means. Maybe the higher it is, it effects sensors for all ships in the system? Could be realllly cool if at some point coronal mass ejections were implemented. Heh.

As to my previous post about combat: It seems that until you detect the enemy fleet, you start in the equivalent of that technical combat screen where ships are represented as icons (in the first game I mean). On top of this, there's time dilation. Would make some sense if it didn't mean by the time the two fleets find each other, very little time to actually fight is left. Would probably be better if a different combat timer applied to the searching for the enemy bit, and if fleet positions didn't reset at the start of combat rounds (as, at the moment, the only clue to where an enemy fleet might be are planets themselves: presumably fleets will be near inhabited planets? Which are, in the tactical screen, unlabeled.).

For people who don't like the combat simulation between turns, you can likely reduce the amount of time it takes up by reducing combat round length.

This game would be a thousand times more playable if it wasn't for the instability related to combat rounds, and the sound issues. Really hoping those are the fastest updates.

[TheBromgrev]

While it looks good, I'm predicting that in true Paradox style it will be full of game-killing bugs because no one bothered to beta test it. Hell, 12 hours after For the Motherland was released on gamersgate it was revealed that none of the stuff in Semper Fi patches after 2.03 made it into FtM I wouldn't be surprised if SotS 2 was similar after its initial release.

From June 28, post #2 of this thread.

Based on the recent comments here, I hate to say it, but: I Told You So!

That said, I'll probably break down and get it in a month or two

[Fracchione]

what u mean bommygrev??????

[TheBromgrev]

Well, For the Motherland is so bugged right now Paradox is releasing an emergency patch this Friday...

Anyway, here's just one example of something that was fixed in Semper Fi which didn't make it into FtM because someone forgot to merge their development environments: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...rg.-Again.-WAD

Of course, there are about 2 pages of bug reports in the official forum that are valid, and the game hasn't even been out a day yet. In true PI style, their customers are their beta testers. As such, I wouldn't expect much at first from any game released by PI. Maybe a few months later, perhaps.

[empr guy]

from watching a play through of the first in the series and knowing paradox now has a hand in it, this game should be very good. Eventually

[Alpha Zeke]

Paradox makes good games, eventually.

[Lord Baal]

But Kerberos Studios is making the game, not Paradox. I have faith it will come out with no mayor bugs, just like the first one!

[NaptownKnight]

Im glad I just got SotS complete pack, will give me something to play why I wait for release, and then while I wait for Paradox to clean up all the bugs. At least they are pretty good at eventually fixing the games.

@ Lord Baal Yes, that does sound perfect.

[Lord Baal]

Pewwff!! I have a DX10 machine, it's not the best of the world, but it gets the job done (game in this case). However as the new Total War looms over the horizon I might have to buy a new rig, depending on the course of things.

On topic, the sheer amount of features and little "details" like the variation in the production (encountering lemons and supers from time to time) make this game awesome beyond awesome!

[Alpha Zeke]

New Total War? What new Total War?

[Lord Baal]

New Total War? What new Total War?

Whatever they bring, as long they made up their last mistakes.

After this the only thing needed to achieve perfection would be a land strategy map of every planet ...

They are going to add this on a expansion, so, never mind Total War after that!

[Jean=A=Luc]

I really wanted to like SoTS but I found the 3D map so annoying. Couldn't see what was going on or which planet was connected to which with that web of glowing lines. Constantly having to rotate and look for the right angle so I could orient myself made a game a huge chore for me.

Combat also felt kind rigid and unsatisfying. Didn't feel like I had much influence on the outcome of battles as a player. A shame really because I really liked a lot of the game's features on paper. Will be keeping an eye on SoTS2 though.

[Space Voyager]

I really wanted to like SoTS but I found the 3D map so annoying.

I noticed that some people dropped SotS for the very features that made it excellent to me. You get the hang of that 3D map fast - and there is a multitude of star map shapes that make it a lot easier. Real space and sphere map are very difficult to manage if you go for a large (50+) number of stars though.

Combat also felt kind rigid and unsatisfying. Didn't feel like I had much influence on the outcome of battles as a player. A shame really because I really liked a lot of the game's features on paper. Will be keeping an eye on SoTS2 though.

Combat, while still being good, is IMO the least polished part of the game. Frankly I was hoping for space opera battles where I'd have even LESS influence, like Nexus without the micro commands. But Kerberos concentrated on MP so they left a lot of things to the player.