Many of the models in this mod show javelins held under the shields of many units. Will these units later throw a javelin before charging?
Was this a common form of combat at the time?
Many of the models in this mod show javelins held under the shields of many units. Will these units later throw a javelin before charging?
Was this a common form of combat at the time?
The superior man acquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity and many deeds of the past, in order to strengthen his character thereby. -John Milton
Initially, yes, those central-Italian units threw javelins before charge. Unfortunately that feature is bugged in Med2, so we're looking into whether it would be possible to enable it in some other way.
Could you just give them low ammo? Say, 2 or 3 javelins that way you can manually order your units to throw and then engage. I personally would not find it to bothersome.
The superior man acquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity and many deeds of the past, in order to strengthen his character thereby. -John Milton
Very interesting mod, I've downloaded it and am conquering Latium as the romans
I have a question in regards to javelins so this thread seemed to be the right place to ask ..
1. The antesignani and the other skirmishers seem to throw their javelins piecemeal and in haphazard fashion so it takes some time before they can do meaningful damage. Charging them with line troops means that they have negiligible impact.
2. Skirmirshing also seems to not work properly. I've seen my skirmishers being charged and engaged without them making an attempt to get away. It seemed that they were too busy reloading their javelins to run for it so they ended up being drawn into hand to hand, which was sort of a surprise.
Combine 1 & 2 and that seems to make skirmishers poor at their traditional role, ie. stand before the main battle line and thin out the enemy before retreating behind their line when closed down.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents in regards to that .. Looking forward to the next patch.
Did you get patch1? Javelin units are substantially improved there.
I did, but I haven't tested this extensively .. let me re-apply the patch and try a few custom battles between skirmishers and get back to you.
In fact with patch1 the javelins are thrown in a single volley.
Ok, I went back and tested it via a few skirmishes but I still don't get volleys per se .. the units go into 'reloading' & 'firing' modes, but the javelins come in a scattered fashion, eg. the most killed per 'volley' was about 10 enemy skirmishers which seems a little low.
Just to check, the patch1 exe should be installed to the M2TW base directory (which is what I did) rather than the mods directory or the P_096 directory right?
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Perhaps, but that was against skirmishers .. against line infantry it's lower, somewhere around 5 or so IIRC, before my skirmishers get charged and drawn into melee combat. Maybe RTW mods like RS2/EB have spoiled me to the usefulness of skirmisher javelins, but comparatively melee infantry and cavalry seem to have a far larger impact than skirmirshers do.
Anyway, just making a comment .. KUTGW, I'll be following this mod
When properly installed, javelins inflict at least 10 damage which is more than most units' melee damage, and the unit is able to lob its volley and flee before the opponent reaches him, meaning that they can throw their javelins again. That seems pretty devastating to me.
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Actually it was mere a question to Signifier, out of my bad memory - i played IB2 few weeks or months after it had its first release (long, long time ago). I mean to remember line inf had pila/javelins. And i recently took a short look at some IB2 screenshots, i believe there are also such pics with throwing main infantry, just not skirmishers, but i could be completely wrong. I'm also very interested to getting historically equipped/behaving units in the PI2 mod, so i hope Signifier can clarify the point - anyways, if IB2 has them, then PI2 can have them, too, so i hope my memory is not completely wrong, i fear it is though
Last edited by DaVinci; June 23, 2011 at 06:04 PM.
#Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
#"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
#"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
#My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
#End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.
Patch greatly improved skirmisher performance.
The superior man acquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity and many deeds of the past, in order to strengthen his character thereby. -John Milton
Yes, thats the right path. The units should now throw their javelins haphazardly, but all arom together, wait until everyone is ready, and then throw together.
The thing is, it's quite easy to enable javelin-throwing infantry. The command is still there from RTW, and the units even act properly by throwing a volley and then charging. The only problem comes during certain cirumstances, with a bug where these units can be completely immobilized, I mean they stand in an 'idle' position, while the opponent is cutting them down. Because of this bug, we've decided to temporarily disable the feature until we figure out a workaround.
CA simply ignored this?
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Thanks for clarification, Signifier. Hope you'll find a feasable solution.
Yes, strange. But M2TW/Kingdoms has just no main infantry with javelinsCA simply ignored this?
#Anthropocene #not just Global Warming but Global Disaster, NASA #Deforestation #Plastic Emission #The Blob #Uninhabitable Earth #Savest Place On Earth #AMOC #ICAN #MIT study "Falsehoods Win" #Engineers of Chaos
#"there can be no doubt about it: the enemy stands on the Right!" 1922, by Joseph Wirth.
Rightwingers, like in the past the epitome of incompetence, except for evilness where they own the mastership.
Iirc., already 2013 i spoke of "Renaissance of Fascism", it was accurate.
#"Humanity is in ‘final exam’ as to whether or not it qualifies for continuance in universe." Buckminster Fuller
Any chance for this exam? Very low, the established Anthropocentrism destroys the basis of existence.
#My Modding #The Witcher 3: Lore Friendly Tweaks (LFT)
#End, A diary of the Third World War (A.-A. Guha, 1983) - now, it started on 24th February 2022.
Linky linky to my last.fm profile! Clicky clicky! If you like anything that ranges from breakbeat to downtempo/chillout, from house to drum & bass, you might find something new in between! (Artist suggestions are more than welcome )
Especially in the early middle ages most soldiers had some kind of missile. Darts, spears, axes, javelins... foot soldiers have always thrown stuff. Just look at the Bayeux tapestry, it's full of javelins flying to and fro.
The troops that didn't were close-combat specialists like hoplites or Swiss Pikemen. I imagine use of thrown weapons declined sharply in the later middle ages as infantry militias became more organised and armed with big two-handed weapons. That's just speculation though.
As for earlier periods, I think it's more a perception-thing. Hollywood doesn't show troops throwing stuff at eachother from behind shield-walls, it shows wild mêlée rushes and bloody hand-to-hand combat.
In ancient times CA couldn't skip the javelins because the Roman legionary pilum is such an iconic weapon but even there none of the Gallic or Germanic infantry carried them, nor were any of the heavy Greek javelinmen represented...